Help needed with Cabot

[buckju]

Hi

 

I have been reading through a number of threads on this site and find it very interesting and informable. Maybe somebody out there can help me.

 

Back in 2002 I defaulted on a credit card with a balance of £1426. In December 2003 the debit was passed to Robinson Way to chase with a balance of £1459.88. I have a copy of their letter dated 20/12/2003.

 

In 2004 I obtained 2 copies of my credit file, 1 in August and 2nd in December. In august the balance was £1459 with the debt detailed as owing to KH1- Citifinacial Capital Corp. In December 04 the balance was again £1459 with the debt detailed as owing to Kings Hill(No1) Limited.

 

In September 2005 I received a teleephone call from Cabot Financial advising of a balance of £1459 offering me a full and final settlement or a payment arrangement. I was unable to make any payments at that time and advised I would contact them as soon as I was able to pay. I had never disputed the balance. In November 2005 I contacted them to set up a payment arrangement. At this point I was told the balance was £2006.28. I disputed this balance stating I had never received anything in writing and advised II had the proof no fees, charges or interest had ever been added up to September 2005 so why has this gone up all of a sudden. I was informed it is the comany policy no to add interest until actual contact had been made with the customer. I immediately advised I thought this was illegal and I agreed to pay £35.00 er month off the original amount quoted of £1459. I have maintained payments ever since.

 

I rang Cabot In February this year to check the balance they had matched with what I had. The additinal charges were still on the account.

 

I have now almost paid the amount I agreed I owed with just £234.00 left to pay. I have now sent them an email. Copy of this is below.

 

Can somebody please advise me if what I have said to them is correct. Any help or advise will be much appreciated

 

'Back on 15 February 2002 I defaulted on an Associates Credit Card with a default balance of £1426.00. Interest or a default charge must have been added on and per a copy of my Credit File from Experian dated 19 August 2004 the balance was £1459. A difference of £33.00. I also have a copy of a letter from Robinson Way & Company Ltd dated 30 December 2003 when they were chasing this debt and the balance was exactly the same £1459.00. Therefore the £33.00 must have been added on sometime before December 2003. I was unable to pay this debt to Robinson Way and heard no more.

I obtained another copy of my credit file on 7 December 2004 and the balance was still £1459.

 

In September 2005 I received a telephone call from a female from Cabot Financial. I was again advised the balance was £1459.00. I was offered a discount for full and final settlement which I could not afford or a payment arrangement. I was not able to make any immediate payment. I advised the person I spoke to I would contact you as soon as I was able to start paying. Back then I had mortgage arrears which were a priority debt hence the reason I was unable to pay this debt.

 

In November 2005 I contacted yourselves to confirm I was now able to start making payments and I made an offer of £35.00 per month. I was at this point advised the balance was £2006.28. I questioned this amount and was told interest had been added on. I stated I had never at any point been advised of any interest or default charges. A customer must at all times be advised in writing of any fee and charges to be added to their account. I immediately contested this stating that between December 2003 when Robiinson Way were chasing the debt, August 2004, when I received a copy of my credit file, December 2004 when I received another copy of my credit file and September 2005 when I received a telephone call from one of your agents no interest had ever been added on but now, all of a sudden you were wacking on another £647.25.

 

I informed the agent that credit files must by law be updated monthly with all credit reference agencies and if interest had been added this should have been updated each month along with me being advised in writing of any addition charges. I was told your policy is not to add interest to an account until contact is actually made with the customer.This is illegal. I told the agent I was agreeing to pay £35.00 per month off the original balance only, this being £1459.00. I also stated you would have to take me to court for the difference once I had paid off the amount I agreed I owed. I asked for this to be noted on my file.

 

I have on a number of occasion rang yourselves just to check the balance and the ensure the account has been updated with the regular payments I have been making. It has been confirmed to me that my original comments about me agreeing to pay £1459 only has been noted. I was advised to write in regarding the difference. This I am now doing.

 

Based on the amount I agreed to pay my balance is now £234.00. I will be paying this balance off in 3 more payments of £78.00. The remaining amount of £647.25 which you added on as interest I expect to be removed. Should you fail to remove the interest I will gladly fight this in court.

 

I expect to receive an immediate reply.'

[Pinky69]

The Golden Rule of dealing with debt collection agencies is never speak to them on the phone - they will only bully you into paying what you cannot afford. Everything in writing and if they call, hang up. I don't know about the first card but the Associates no longer exist as a company and Cabot bought these debts as a job lot some time ago, for roughly 10% of their face value. You could ask them for copies of credit agreements for the debts - they are unlikely to have them. If they don't, you don't have to pay them another penny. The letter for requesting copies of the agreements is Letter N in the library. Of you cannot find it let us knowand we will post it up for you. They have 12 (+2) days from the date of receipt of your request to get the copy of the agreement to you. Enclose the requred £1 by postal order, print, don't sign your name and send by recorded delivery.

[buckju]

Hi Pinky69 and thank you for the reply. I have not been on here for the last couple of weeks due to my mum being in hospital and having to stay looking after my dad. Can you advise me where I can find the letter library please.

[buckju]

Hi all

 

Again I have not been on this site for a while due to looking after my parents. Dad has recently found out he has cancer and is not too good. It was there 50th wedding anniversary last week so 25 of us went away on holiday for a break. We had a great time.

 

Anyway back to my debt problem. I CCA'd cabot about the Associates debt and have received the following reply:

 

We acknowledge receipt of your request under sections 77 and/or78 of the consumer credit act 1974.

 

The cobot financial group is not obliged to provide this information but we are pleased to help and have already requested the documentation for you from the original lender.

 

Cabot financial does not accept the statutory fee required under section 77 and/or 78 of the consumer credit act 1974 and as a result have returned the fee for £1.00 that you have sent.

 

We anticipate that we will be able to provide the information within 12 days. In the event we are unlikely to obtain this information within those time limits we will write to you again.

 

Will somebody please advise me where I go from here is they do not provide me woth the copy of the credit agreement.

 

Their letter was dated 03/04/09.

 

Cheers

[ODC]

This is the usual bull**** from Cabot. They ARE obliged under S175 of the CCA 1974 to pass your request to the original lender if they have not purchased the debt. If they have purchased the debt then S189 of the act obliges them to produce a copy of the agreement. Once 12 working days are up CANCEL all payments to Cabot forthwith.

[buckju]

Hi

Once again I have not been on this site. Following our wonderful holiday to celebrate my mum and dads 50th wedding anniversary my mum fell ill and was admitted to hospital on 24 April. Sadly she passed away on 1st May.

 

Back to Cabot. Following a series of letters from Cabot continually saying they were still trying to obtain a copy of my CCA from the original Credit Card company, and whilst they were waiting for it my account was on hold, I have now received a letter as follows:

 

Standard opening paragraphs then as follows

'Please be advised, that failure to provide a copy of your agreement within agreed time lines does not affect the legality of the debt with Cabot Financial Group but merely renders the credit agreement unenforceable until such time the agreement can be produced.

 

I can confirm Cabot have taken the decision to treat the balance on this account as irrecoverable. Please note this decision is not to be coonfused as a write off of the balance on your account as the debt legally remains. Please be advised that altough Cabot has treated the account as irrecoverable, we shall continue to report to the credit reference agencies accordingly.

 

Notwithstanding the above, Cabot will continue to request these documents from the original lender and in the event Cabot obtain the information as requuested by you, we reserve the right to recommence collection on your account'.

 

 

My question is now is what Cabot saying correct which I assume not but I would ike to know what my next response should be. Also how do I have this account removed from the crediit files and is it possible to claim back all I have already paid to cabot?

 

All help is appreciated.

[cerberusalert]

It means they can't find an enforceable CCA so they can't make you pay the remaining monies. As for reporting to CRAs, I think not because the default that was on your file only lasts for six years and should have dropped off by now.

[buckju]

Thank you for the prompt reply but it is Cabot who have the default on file now not the original CC company. Is there anything I can do about it?

[cerberusalert]

Is it a new default or is it an update for the original one? If it's a new one make a complaint to the credit reference agency & then complain to your local trading Standards & the OFT. The OFT have already warned Cabot about their sharp practices.

[ODC]

How can Crapbot put anything on your file as they have no agreement so they should not even be processing your data

[buckju]

The original by the lender was marked as balance zero when it was sold to cabot and then cabot entered a new default at the time when they purchased the so called debt. I have not applied for a new file which I will be doing this week. It is more than 6 years since cabot had their first entry so this should have auto been removed anyway but lets wait and c. Is it possible for me to claim back from cabot what I have already paid given the fact they now agree the debt is unenforceable?

[cerberusalert]

Is it possible for me to claim back from cabot what I have already paid given the fact they now agree the debt is unenforceable?

No, although a debt is unenforceable it does still exist.

[buckju]

Will somebody please advise if the same principal can be applied when an bank account has been closed due to an overdrawn balance not being paid off and the then sold off to a DCA. A few years ago my daughter who was very niave at the time tried to sell something. She was presented with a cheque which the bank cashed but, a few weeks later they reversed the money in her account & said the cheque was fraud. As she has already spent the money she went overdrawn. In this case there will be no CCA. Is there anything she can do?

[buckju]

Hi

 

Can anybody advise on the above regarding an old bank account

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

The account will not be 'closed' until there is a '0' balance.

Are there any charges she could re-claim.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[buckju]

Hello again everyone. I thought I had heard the last from Cabot last year when they said they had been unable to obtain a copy of my CCA. Today I have come home from work to a letter stating they have now obtained a copy and so are chasing the outstanding balance. What they have sent me has NO financial information,nor is there any signature from either myself or the original credit card company Associates. it certainly does not look like a correct agreement to me.It appear to be a copy of the tems & conditions only and a top sheet with my name and address only. Any advise would be grateful please

[debt4get]

yep tell em you have paid everything they are ever going to get from you and they can go to hell....they are nothing but parasites...they have failed to send an enforceable cca and as such the account is in dispute and until they supply one they can go whistle

[buckju]

caan somebody please help me with the wording of a reply to them. thank you

[debt4get]

just send the account in dispute letter

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date:

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE** (12+2 days after you made the initial request).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[buckju]

Hi Everyone. I am in work writing this so figures and dates are not exact.I have not been on her for a couple of years as I have not heard a single thing from Cabot. Last week I received a telephone call from them. I refused to confirm my details and told them all correspondence should be in writing. I have since received a letter asking me to contact them. In 2009 when they wrote to me saying they had not been able to obtain a copy of the credit agreement the balance on their letter was just over £700 I think. The balance on the letter last week is over £1200. No breakdown whatsoever explaining where the increase has come from.My question is this. As they have made no effort whatsoever to provide me with a copy of a signed credit agreement as requested from them in 2009 and, given the fact they have not attempted to make any contact with me over the last couple of years. what is my next course of action. Any help is appreciated.

[debt4get]

same here .....ignore em if you reply it only encourages them

[zydeco]

what is my next course of action. Any help is appreciated.

Have a nice evening and a good nights sleep.

 

But seriously, reading your thread, they couldn't produce the documents 3 years ago and put that fact in writing.

The outstanding amount was their interest which they have added more to.

You could remind them of their response from 3 years ago, possibly ask for a breakdown of the account or (my favourite) just ignore.

[debt4get]

i agree with zydeco they are best ignored...they tried the same thing with me last month...told em to take a hike....no doubt they will try again, but am ignoring them...they want to try their luck in court after sitting on mine for 5 years adding charges upon charges they can!! but i aint holding my breath waiting

[Happyhippy1959]

Ignore them, best bet, they have no chance of recovering all they have done is supply a reconstructed agreement, would not be enough to go to court with due to it being pre 2007,,,, so just do as I do, one final letter on bright yellow paper telling them I hope they enjoy the lemon they bought. !!!!!!!!!!

[buckju]

I was going to ignore them at first but think I will send a letter reiterating what was said in 2009. Unless they produce a signed copy of a credit agreement then any outstanding debt is unenforceable. I suspect they are trying to get me to contact them so they do not go over the statute of limitations without contact. What do you guys think. Thanks for your help