Court defence V HBOS

[creditcardmug]

Civil Procedure Rules ...Here,

 

 

CPR - Rules & Practice Directions

[gubbins1]

The solicitors for HBOS now say that they have sumitted fully particularised claim to the court. They have not sent me a copy of this though. Would the holding defence still be applicable as I have not received the new POC ?

[Docman]

Yes if you have not received anything from eithre the solicitors or the court. But get your defence in quickly - like today!

[gubbins1]

I have done , thanks docman. I used parts of the defence you posted above , and also included a letter asking for adjournment until a later date.

I rang the court to ask for another date for the hearing , but requests must be in writing apparently.

[sdoc]

HI, following this thread as similar problem . Does the POC need to speciy bank and account number ? Does the same apply to an amount due to an overdraft? MY POC just says basically \2 you oew XXX£ and we will charge you X in interest. No account number, and signed by DG solicitors. not even to whom I owe and for which account ? Can i file an embarrased defence ?

[creditcardmug]

HI, following this thread as similar problem . Does the POC need to speciy bank and account number ? Does the same apply to an amount due to an overdraft? MY POC just says basically \2 you oew XXX£ and we will charge you X in interest. No account number, and signed by DG solicitors. not even to whom I owe and for which account ? Can i file an embarrased defence ?

 

Do you have a thread running on this? if not you need to start one.

Include the basic details, and type out exactly what it says in the POC.

[sdoc]

Tnansk, creditcardmug. I do have a thread, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/178453-ccj-poc-no-acc.html, in fact , 2, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/178290-first-direct-ccj-overdraft.html

and although i have had advice from very helpful caggers, due to my being completely illiterate in legal matters, i stil;l dont know what to do.... sorry to to have barged in to this thread like this...

[Docman]

Hi sdoc,

 

I have had a look at your other two threads and see that CCM and DocH are both replying. I suggest that the mods merge both the other threads and you continue with the one referering to First Direct- and don't worry, the solicitors are so bad I refer to them as Dumb Goofers.

[freakyleaky]

Exactly which 2 threads do you want merging?

[Docman]

Exactly which 2 threads do you want merging?

 

The twp highlighted in post #32 above.

[freakyleaky]

Ah yes. Sorry, I wasn't paying attention.

 

All done now.

[sdoc]

Thank you very much !

[gubbins1]

Getting back to my original thread, the claim has now been re-instated after the hearing on 28th January.

 

The judge has ordered that HBOS file and serve a fully particularised claim in the correct form by 4 pm 04/02/09 and myself to file and serve an amended defence by 25/02/09.

 

Having just contacted the court , it seems that HBOS have not filed any further POC by the due date . They had provided an amended POC for the hearing ,but I am assuming the district judge wanted ammendments to the structure .

 

I filed a holding defence previously , but still do not have any further info for a full defence , as I have still not received the original CCA .

 

I am hoping the claim will be struck out in default , but don't want to leave anything to chance.

 

Should I file another holding defence , or does anyone have any other ideas about the best way to proceed ?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Gubbins

[creditcardmug]

Does the judges order say the claim shall be struck out if the claimant does not comply?

[gubbins1]

Hello CCM,

 

yes it does say that the claim in default automatically struck out , but that was the case also in November.

 

I received today from HBOS thier new particulars of claim , which consist of a copy of my application form from 1994 , copies of all my statements , and a screen print of a payment Wescott received from me for £100.

 

At the hearing for reinstatement , HBOS's solicitors were trying to get a favourable judgement on the fact that I did not file a full defence , so I don't want to be in a position where the judge rules in their favour due to me not filing a defence.

 

As I said above, the court say nothing further has been filed by HBOS , but the claim has not been officially struck out . I wonder how long the court takes to make things official ?

[creditcardmug]

So they have served the new poc and backed it up with documents, so we can take it they have also filed the same at the court.

If so, they have complied with the judges order? is that correct?

 

If so we need to pull apart what they have sent, you will need to post it up.

[gubbins1]

According to the person I spoke to at the court this morning, nothing further has been filed. I will try to scan in the new docs, but basically they consist of .

 

1 : Copy of my original application form from 1994.

2 : 160 statements.

3 : copy of screen print for £ 100 payment to Wescott debt collectors.

 

This is what they also presented at the hearing to get the claim reinstated.

[creditcardmug]

Oh right, so there's nothing new then, and they haven't filed it...this could be a cabot fast one.

 

Might be time to write a letter to the court, asking for a strike out.

[gubbins1]

I filed an holding defence before the hearing in Jan. I would like to file some form of defence just in case. Same again do you think ?

[creditcardmug]

The purpose of a defence is to refute everything in their POC, so the first thing to do is post up their latest POC.

 

Have you had a signed agreement from them yet?

[gubbins1]

No signed agreement , just a signed application form from 1994. Having a few problems with my scanner , so I will have to type out the details of the POC tomorrow.

[gubbins1]

OK , here are tghe new POCs from HBOS's solicitors.

 

1 : The claim relates to sums advanced to the defendant pursuant to a mutally agreed agreement between the claimant and the defendant. The agreement is dated 25th July 1994 and exhibited at A

 

2 : The agreement was for the provision of short term credit , via associated stationary such as a credit card.Details of the creditor/claimant appeared on the physical card , statements and associated stationary.

 

3: The sum claimed relates to multiple advances on a Halifax credit card.Halifax are owned and part of Bank of Scotland PLC, being the claimant.The defendant benefited from many advances.

 

4 : No sums were advanced other than at the defendants express consent and request ,

such as at instore point of sale ,telephone or internet banking and transfers.

 

5 : Exhibit B is the complete statement of account from August 1994 . The final balance was £ 12,125.14 in April 2008. The defendant was served with over 160 statements each providing full particulars of the card account and claimant.The defendant made many credits to the account during this 14 year period which demonstrates the defendant has been made fully aware of his liability to the claimant.

 

6 : However upon continual default the sums were passed to Wescot credit services ltd

(“Wescot”) , whom was instructed by the claimant to recover the sums on behalf of the claimant and act on behalf of the claimant. The defendant duly responded and made an acknowledgment via a payment to Wescot. He credited the sum of £100 by debit card during a telephone conversation between the defendant and an employee of Wescot.

 

7 : Subsequent to the above payment , no further credits were received , nor any dispute from the defendant . The claimant was therefore afforded little alternative but to issue litigation.

 

8 : The claimant has therefore suffered a true loss of £12,025.14 from which the defendant has directly benefited and withheld payments to the claimant. The sums remain due and owing.

 

9 : The claimant therefore claims ;

 

a : £ 12,025.14.

 

b : Interest pursuant to section 69 of the county court act (1984) at a rate of 8 % per annum, and thereafter , at a daily rate of £2.63 to date of judgement or sooner payment.

 

Exhibit A - Application form signed by me in 1994.

 

Exhibit B - Copies of 160 statements.

 

Exhibit C - Screen copy of £ 100 paid to Wescot.

 

Any help wording a defence would be appreciated.

[Docman]

Oh I do like it when banks screw up! These amended POC look like they have been drafted by a school boy who is studying GCSE law, rather than a qualified solicitor. EG "pursuant to a mutally agreed agreement " - whatever happened to 'credit card agreement numbered xxxxxx'? And no reference to a default notice, I see.

Nevertheless, you will have to submit a full defence, answering all the points in the POC. I suggest it might be best to start the amended defence by a statment that it replaces the earlier defence, just to avoid any confusion.

Do you want to have a stab at a first draft for comment? if so, can I ask if you can try and post up a scan of the 'agreement' from 1994, minus any personal identifiers?

[gubbins1]

Hello Docman,

 

the 'agreement' from 1994 is actually a copy of the application form I filled in, with your Halifax visa application at the top. There are some terms on there , but the copy is so bad it is hard to make them out. I could try to decipher and type them out if this would help.

 

If you could suggest a few bullet points to concentrate on , I'll have a go at formulating a defence. I suppose I could pick a few bits out of the holding defence I filed.

[creditcardmug]

Is the "agreement" readable?, can you tell whether the "prescribed terms" are on it, or does it refer to them being somewhere else?