Minster Baywatch PCN Claimform - xxxx hospital, xxxx (city)help!

[pieboy100]

Hi

 

This is my first post bu I have read a lot of the other similar posts, though speicific advice would be useful.

 

I was parked at a hospital in Newcastle without a pay and display ticket and received a "Parking Charge Notice" from Minster Baywatch (based in York(?)) for "A valid pay and display ticket was not clearly on display" adn "a valid permit was not clearly on display. As with all the other posters, it alos has notive that a £50 charge is now payable but £25 will be accepted in the first 14 days.

 

It also has however that "Legal action will be taken against the registered keeper if unpaid. Further costs will be incurred" but more worryingly, "Alternatively on your return to this car park you vehicle may be subject to additional parking fines. Your vehicle may be immobilised or towed away to recover any outstanding debt."

 

As I visit the hospital every month, I'm wondering, should I just pay the fine (I've gathered that there's no point appealing and that I should wait until they contact me before using one of the templates telling them to "take it up wiht the driver" - who - between this forum - MAY have been me) and do they have any legal right to provide additional fines and/or immobilise/tow away my car?

 

pieboy

[Al27]

It would be an offence to clamp or tow your car. Any member of society has go through the county court to claim any alleged debt and just taking goods is theft.

 

Private companies have no powers to issue fines, so that's a load of cobblers too.

 

Legally, they are not entitled to £25 or £50 - they are entitled to the cost of the P&D ticket. You can either completely ignore them, or you can send them a pound coin in the post, point out that this is all they're entitled too and to forward it to the landowner if required.

[PedrosBerrios]

Hi Al27, Could you confirm whether there are any sites on the net or law that can be quoted to Minster Baywatch with regards to them not legally being entitled to claim anything other than the P & D charge.

 

I had brought a ticket which was not displayed properly and they have taken a picture of my car and registration number. The ticket was on the drivers side window which they failed to see and apparently didn't take a picture of that side of the car. Also is this not a breech of Data Protection as my vehicle reg can lead someone to my personal details? Also the storage of such a phot would surely be on their computer system, how do I know what that picture could be used for if it fell into the wrong hands, I feel that this is an infringement of my rights and protection of my personal data. I have written to them explaining this but they just wrote back saying that a picture of a car is not classed as personal data. I have sent a copy of my ticket which was brought in good faith. Now they insist that I pay within 14 days.

 

After reading your response I am now enclined to send the £1.70 which they claim I didn't pay, would then dispute the fact and insist that they can charge a fine of £40 if paid in 14 days, if not then £60 thereafter ?? Any help wouuld be appreciated !

[Al27]

So you've already bought a ticket and even sent it to them?

 

Well, job done then. They offered a service, and you paid for it. Displaying a ticket is optional - if you bought a jumper in Debenhams, they can't fine you for losing your receipt!

 

There's no point trying to reason with them or explain the law - they just want to make some cash. They know the situation full well, but are hoping that you don't.

 

Expect more letters before they give up and go away. They can 'charge' any figure they like - the £60 is no more enforceable than £40 or £10,000.

 

You've done your bit. Sit back and ignore.

 

By the way, I don't think it's a breach of data protection to take a photo of your car I'm afraid.

[themanfromathens]

Al27, you clearly dont know what your on about.

 

If you park on private property and their is signage saying that permits/tickets must be displayed or you will recieve a parking charge then this is what you must do, the term is pay and display, not pay and put it in your pocket / put it on the floor / put it behind the tinted section of your windscreen / put it face down so you cant read the time and date of expiry etc etc..

 

If you park your car then you have agreed to the terms and conditions and therefore entered into a contract.

 

The parking charge is for breach of contract, weather you bought a ticket or not is irrelevant.

 

Its quite simple, if you dont agree with the restrictions on privately owned property then dont park there.

[crem]

ooohhhh! there's another new name for us to get used to.

[Al27]

Ignore the troll Pedros. He probably even works for Minster!

[Shovel]

So does Minster Baywatch have David Hasslehoff as a spokesman?

[lamma]

"The parking charge is for breach of contract" oops. sorry manfromathens no prizes.

[ruddiger123]

It would be an offence to clamp or tow your car. Any member of society has go through the county court to claim any alleged debt and just taking goods is theft.

 

Private companies have no powers to issue fines, so that's a load of cobblers too.

 

Legally, they are not entitled to £25 or £50 - they are entitled to the cost of the P&D ticket. You can either completely ignore them, or you can send them a pound coin in the post, point out that this is all they're entitled too and to forward it to the landowner if required.

not true trust me i know

[emsgeorge]

Go on then ruddiger123, explain away why you think thats not true .......

 

Troll alert !

[Al27]

I don't trust anyone who can't use punctuation and the caps key!

[themanfromathens]

It would be an offence to clamp or tow your car. Any member of society has go through the county court to claim any alleged debt and just taking goods is theft.

 

Private companies have no powers to issue fines, so that's a load of cobblers too.

 

Legally, they are not entitled to £25 or £50 - they are entitled to the cost of the P&D ticket. You can either completely ignore them, or you can send them a pound coin in the post, point out that this is all they're entitled too and to forward it to the landowner if required.

 

 

In response to the person who requested an explanation as to why the above post was untrue.

 

Firstly it is not illegal to clamp or tow a vehicle (unless you live in Scotland). Would a government authority, namely the Security Industry Authority, issue vehicle immobilisation licences if it were an illegal act:?:

 

 

Secondly, correct a private company cannot issue fines (unless contracted by the local council to conduct civil enforcement), this is why parking tickets are called ' Parking charge Notice' not 'Penaly charge notice'; the ticket is a charge not a fine.

 

 

Finally with refrence to the comments regarding the amount of the charge, a business can charge what they wish for a product or service, you will find the charges printed on the car parks signage. If one of the charges is applicable to vehicles not following the terms and conditions of the car park then so be it, it so happens that the charge is requested after the charge is incurred, the P.C.N is in effect an invoice. If you do not agree to the charges then fine just park else where.

 

The mistake a lot of people make is that just because a car park is readily accessable to the public it is still private property and if you are not prepared to respect the land owners wishes then you have no right to be there. Put yourself in the landowners position if he did not have measures in place to sort out parking fee dodgers (who do not want to pay their way in life like everyone els), no body would pay. If no one paid the car park would close down and there would be very limited parking across the country, is that what some of you want:idea:

 

Parking enforcement is a necessary evil !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lamma]

all the PPCs have to is act lawfully and legally. have yet to see a set of paper from any PPC that is either. In very many cases they do not even have the right to form any contract with driver. which PPC do you work for/run ?

[crem]

Secondly, correct a private company cannot issue fines (unless contracted by the local council to conduct civil enforcement), this is why parking tickets are called ' Parking charge Notice' not 'Penaly charge notice'; the ticket is a charge not a fine.

 

 

 

You can call it what you like, it is still quite obviously a "penalty charge" based on it's size relative to the breaking of a particular term on an alledged contract.

 

As a term on a contract therefore it also falls foul of consumer acts deeming no term can be "unreasonable", which again it clearly is.

Edited January 21, 2009 by crem

[lamma]

Just one small part of the "lawfully and legally" problems they face. Of course if a PPC did act lawfully and legally their business model collapses !! here is something from the FSA about unfair contract terms. http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/speeches/tmcl_slides.pdf

Edited January 21, 2009 by lamma

[themanfromathens]

As a term on a contract therefore it also falls foul of consumer acts deeming no term can be "unreasonable", which again it clearly is.

 

Whats unreasonable about insisting that motorists pay for their parking:-?:-?:-?

 

With reference to the amount of the charge usually between £30 and £75 if paid within the discounted period; the profits are not as high as you think.

 

The fee has to cover:

wages / staff training / fuel / vehicles / a ridiculous amount of admin / DVLA fees / printing / signage / pay and display machines 3-8 grand each / maintenance of machines / repairs to vandalised machines / commision to landowners.

 

The fees are quite reasonable taking the above into account, tecnically we oops, THEY could just clamp / tow and charge in the regeon of £400 to get your car back COMPLETELY LEGALLY but the good guys dont.

[themanfromathens]

all the PPCs have to is act lawfully and legally. have yet to see a set of paper from any PPC that is either. In very many cases they do not even have the right to form any contract with driver. which PPC do you work for/run ?

 

If you have written permission from the land owner you have the right to form a contract with motorists.

[lamma]

If you have written permission from the land owner you have the right to form a contract with motorists.

 

not if the landowner has not given you the appropriate rights - which the majority do not.

[themanfromathens]

Just one small part of the "lawfully and legally" problems they face. Of course if a PPC did act lawfully and legally their business model collapses !! here is something from the FSA about unfair contract terms. http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/speeches/tmcl_slides.pdf

 

Take a look at the top of page 2 on your link; basically they state that a contract is considered fair if the terms are clear with no hidden pitfalls.

 

Generally parking companies signage / contracts comply with this statement

[lamma]

Whats unreasonable about insisting that motorists pay for their parking:-?:-?:-?

 

With reference to the amount of the charge usually between £30 and £75 if paid within the discounted period; the profits are not as high as you think.

 

The fee has to cover:

wages / staff training / fuel / vehicles / a ridiculous amount of admin / DVLA fees / printing / signage / pay and display machines 3-8 grand each / maintenance of machines / repairs to vandalised machines / commision to landowners.

 

The fees are quite reasonable taking the above into account, tecnically we oops, THEY could just clamp / tow and charge in the regeon of £400 to get your car back COMPLETELY LEGALLY but the good guys dont.

 

oops you have let the cat out of the bag - but relax we all knew it anyway. fees for losses. the cost of running your business is your affair. and losses to the landowner not you in most cases. If you are so sure then take up the Pepipoo challenge that Perky can't manage to do. Unless you are Perky (again) so which PPC are you ? did the cat get your tongue when it escaped the bag ?

[themanfromathens]

what is the pepipoo challenge?

Edited January 21, 2009 by themanfromathens
mis-spell

[lamma]

Take a look at the top of page 2 on your link; basically they state that a contract is considered fair if the terms are clear with no hidden pitfalls.

 

Generally parking companies signage / contracts comply with this statement

 

read the rest of it. and the accompanying speech.

[crem]

tecnically we oops, THEY could just clamp / tow and charge in the regeon of £400 to get your car back COMPLETELY LEGALLY but the good guys dont.

 

Clamping is only a remedy (and a flimsy remedy at that) for "trespass". If you park with one wheel over a white line in a private car park to which the public have been given reasonable access too, you cannot by definition be "trespassing". Therefore clamping would be an illegal remedy.

[pieboy100]

Hi

 

here's an update.

 

Because I'm living between 2 addresses, the letters are going to one address and then being forwarded. AS a result I'm receiving them about 7-10 days later.

 

I today got one from Roxburghe debt collectors saying that £100 is now due and that in the absence of payment or any valid dispute they will pursue this matter - with or without my coopoeration and that it will be passed on to Solicitors, Graham White to review the case rfor potential legal action.

 

Up to now I have just been ignoring the letters. Is this routine, and at what point do they usually stop? Should I write a cease and desist letter asking for evidence?

 

pieboy