Minster Baywatch PCN Claimform - xxxx hospital, xxxx (city)help!

[crem]

 

Up to now I have just been ignoring the letters. Is this routine, and at what point do they usually stop?

2 letters from Roxburghe, 2 letters from Graham Whites should just about do it

 

Should I write a cease and desist letter asking for evidence?

No! The more you write to them, the more they will write to you. It's like a penpal thing they have going. They love communicating with all their buddies like that. Edited January 21, 2009 by crem
spelling

[pelham9]

Should I write a cease and desist letter asking for evidence?

 

Do not waste your time. They just might take you to court. If so that is the time to ask for evidence. Continue calling their bluff by ignoring them,

[pieboy100]

Another update:

 

I did write a letter based on the template int he sticky saying that they should provide evidence that I entered into a contract and that any further correspondance might result in action in accordance with the Protection from HArrassment (1997) (or whatever it's called - I did look it all up before I wrote the letter!)

 

I've now had 2 letters from Roxburghe and 1 from Graham White. I'm waiting for the Graham White one to be sent up to me. I'm getting nervous now guys... and quite stressed.

 

I'm actually considering paying since it's gotten this far. What's the likelihood of it going this far? Is this common?

 

pieboy

[Al27]

Pay? Why would you do that?

 

You've only got one letter to go. 2 from Roxburge and 2 from Graham White is the norm. Then they'll give up.

[lamma]

it always goes this far ! thats why they write so many letters. its a mail [problem] ! ignore the letters, we have seen hundreds of them. near the end now. just think of the money they are wasting by writing to you and smile.

[letshelp]

Whats unreasonable about insisting that motorists pay for their parking:-?:-?:-?

 

Nothing whatsoever, it's just the manner you go about it.

 

With reference to the amount of the charge usually between £30 and £75 if paid within the discounted period; the profits are not as high as you think.

 

What gives a private company the right to issue fines? Please state the legal authority you rely on for this. Also please state the legal authority that PPC's now state the registered keeper is legally reponsible for these fines.

 

The fee has to cover:

wages / staff training / fuel / vehicles / a ridiculous amount of admin / DVLA fees / printing / signage / pay and display machines 3-8 grand each / maintenance of machines / repairs to vandalised machines / commision to landowners.

 

You have chosen to take part in this [problem], you won't get much sympathy here for your set up and running costs, you could always take up honest work for a living.

 

The fees are quite reasonable taking the above into account, tecnically we oops, THEY could just clamp / tow and charge in the regeon of £400 to get your car back COMPLETELY LEGALLY but the good guys dont.

 

Perhaps you could clamp/tow but then you would spend most of your time in court trying to defend the impossible, how much money would that make? There are NO good guys in your business, don't flatter yourself.

 

Perhaps you can now try and justify your trade....................

Edited February 6, 2009 by letshelp

[pieboy100]

"2 letters from Roxburghe, 2 letters from Graham Whites should just about do it :-)"

 

"You've only got one letter to go. 2 from Roxburge and 2 from Graham White is the norm. Then they'll give up."

 

Is this from experience or just a guess? I am getting nervous about it going to court - especially as one user on this forum said that Minster Baywatch are one of the companies that has gone to court.

 

As an aside I thought that any claims under £500 didn't result in actual court appearance?

Edited February 2, 2009 by pieboy100

[Al27]

Minster Baywatch tried it on with somebody who'd built up about 15 of these tickets. They got spanked in court and are unlikely to try it on again. This was a one-off punt as the guy had built up a couple of grand in 'charges'.

 

There are plenty of people who are in the Roxburge/Graham White chain. It's always 2 letters from each. Remember that the whole point of getting external agencies in is to precisely avoid going to court.

[Al27]

Fraid not. It was about a year ago. It might have been on this forum, or Pepipoo.

[lamma]

Thanks for that. "The claimant walked out in disgust" or in a huff maybe...

[themanfromathens]

Perhaps you can now try and justify your trade....................

 

I dont need to justify my trade; I take pride in providing a much needed service to landowners who have problems with A) Tight fisted motorists who dont want to pay their way in life and B) Motorists who have no respect for other peoples property.

 

Just for the record I do not agree with ticketing; if it were up to me it would be clamping all the way as it is guaranteed payment and it has 100% backing from the law (numerous test cases- Arthur -v- Anker (1995) , Vine -v- Waltham LBC (2000)).

 

But some landowners prefer ticketing; but as you know, at this time nothing is set in stone legally.

 

By the way any company that states the registered keeper is ultimately responsible for a Civil Parking Charge is breaking the law (AT THIS MOMENT TIME ANYWAY).

 

However it is understandable why some companies take this stance, if some C**nt is not willing to pay a £3.00 pay and display fee, he is gonna do everything he can to worm his slimey little way out of a P.C.N.

 

If the registered keeper was not driving they should have to pay the charge and pursue the money from the person who was driving; if they are unwilling to make payment then you shouldn't have lent the car to the kn*b in the first place.

 

If every one paid for their parking and respected private land there would be no need for companies such as mine. Which would be fine, i would simply make my money in an alternative line of work; but there's plenty of you chancers to keep me going for years:-D.

 

P.S. a P.C.N is not a fine its is a charge for the use of a car park its just that its cheaper if you pay in advance i.e Pay and Display.

 

Any company has the right to charge for products / services / rent of a parking space, there could be an argument that a motorist's who hasn't paid for parking has committed theft, but thats a different can of worms.

 

Peace:)

[My Real Name]

It's lucky, then, that this forum is not about advocating leaving vehicles on commercial or private parking property in defiance of any advertised parking charges.

 

Nobody has suggested that landowners are acting inappropriately by charging a fee for parking on their property, so I'm not sure why you are bleating the same old trite nonsense.

 

What this forum is about is exposing the dishonest and disingenuous approach taken by a number of parking companies. Approaches such as misrepresenting documents as PCNs, empty threats of court action, veiled attempts at disguising penalties as charges, spurious claims as to vehicles keepers' responsibilities, to name but a few.

 

Suggesting that clamping is the be-all and end-all of parking enforcement is both tiresomely naive and boorish at the same time. If you actually understood the concepts behind the use of clamping, you might have referred to remedies for trespass. Instead, you just mention Anker or Vine, which address the issue of signage, as opposed to that of damage distress feasant.

Edited February 5, 2009 by My Real Name

[Al27]

P.S. a P.C.N is not a fine its is a charge for the use of a car park its just that its cheaper if you pay in advance i.e Pay and Display.

 

If every one paid for their parking and respected private land there would be no need for companies such as mine. Which would be fine, i would simply make my money in an alternative line of work; but there's plenty of you chancers to keep me going for years

 

In which case you'd only give out tickets for people parking over the allotted time (and the cost would be proportionate) or not paying in the first place.

 

And those instances make up what percentage of 'PCNs'? Not many.

 

You're holier than thou attitude is unfortunately not representative of the system. You'd fail to make much profit doing it the 'correct' way for a start.

[lamma]

exactly.

[letshelp]

I take pride in providing a much needed service to landowners who have problems with A) Tight fisted motorists who dont want to pay their way in life and B) Motorists who have no respect for other peoples property.

 

Like you could actually care less about the respect for others peoples property, what's with all the waffle, it is simply a money making [problem]....

 

Just for the record I do not agree with ticketing; if it were up to me it would be clamping all the way as it is guaranteed payment and it has 100% backing from the law (numerous test cases- Arthur -v- Anker (1995) , Vine -v- Waltham LBC (2000)).

 

Go back and do some proper research, as previously been stated the cases you mention are about signage.

 

By the way any company that states the registered keeper is ultimately responsible for a Civil Parking Charge is breaking the law (AT THIS MOMENT TIME ANYWAY).

 

Yes we all know this, strange that you really want to have some sort of legal recognition for your [problem], but just ignore the law as it stands, such as stating the registered keeper is responsible.

 

However it is understandable why some companies take this stance, if some 'C**nt' is not willing to pay a £3.00 pay and display fee, he is gonna do everything he can to worm his slimey little way out of a P.C.N.

 

Ah, now we have the true face of the kind of people behind these scams, calling people 'C**nt' (have you spelt that correctly????)

 

If the registered keeper was not driving they should have to pay the charge and pursue the money from the person who was driving; if they are unwilling to make payment then you shouldn't have lent the car to the kn*b in the first place.

 

So says the person who describles people who wish to stand up to this [problem] as, C*nts and and Kn*bs. What happened to your working within the law, the simple truth is that you are not covered by the sort of legislation that you wish, so stop moaning.

 

If every one paid for their parking and respected private land there would be no need for companies such as mine. Which would be fine, i would simply make my money in an alternative line of work; but there's plenty of you chancers to keep me going for years:-D.

 

Yes I suppose the UK is short of street muggers!!!!

 

P.S. a P.C.N is not a fine its is a charge for the use of a car park its just that its cheaper if you pay in advance i.e Pay and Display.

there could be an argument that a motorist's who hasn't paid for parking has committed theft, but thats a different can of worms.

 

Have you ever visited the planet earth? What the hell are you talking about? Do you know the definition of the offence of theft? If so please tell us how it relates to not paying a [problem] charge......You really should not drink on an empty head then post on a public forum.

 

Peace:)

 

Thank you for an insight into the sort of person that works/operates a PPC.

Edited February 6, 2009 by letshelp

[lamma]

well put letshelp.

[ruddiger123]

Go on then ruddiger123, explain away why you think thats not true .......

 

Troll alert !

when parking on private property you are entering into a legaly binding contract PROVIDING there is signage worded correctly stating so... Also there must be sufficiant signage not just a small sign by the pay machine but signs all over the car park,if you dont pay ect and you are unlucky enough to get a ticket you MUST write in if the ticket is just disregarded like some ill informed fools on here might suggest then the parking company in question has a legal right to take lagal action against the registered keeper of the car ect..because the parking company is acting as an agent for the landowner and will no doubt have a written contract to prove so ,,the only way out is if you can show the ticket was issued in error or is written out with an error on it like worng reg ect...

if not i suggest pay the fine after you have written in to appeal ( if your appeal is not sucessfull)..because you wont win ,,,,,TRUST ME I DO KNOW WHAT Im ON ABOUT unlike most foolls on here with there ill informed information and there childish comments,,

[lamma]

"then the parking company in question has a legal right to take lagal action against the registered keeper of the car " complete and utter rubbish. you don't know what you are on about at all. read Tweddle don't spout twaddle. And a huge number of PPCs do not have sufficient proprietary right to make the offer of parking. Is the hit rate at your PPC going down ?

[DDWales]

when parking on private property you are entering into a legaly binding contract PROVIDING there is signage worded correctly stating so... Also there must be sufficiant signage not just a small sign by the pay machine but signs all over the car park,if you dont pay ect and you are unlucky enough to get a ticket you MUST write in if the ticket is just disregarded like some ill informed fools on here might suggest then the parking company in question has a legal right to take lagal action against the registered keeper of the car ect..because the parking company is acting as an agent for the landowner and will no doubt have a written contract to prove so ,,the only way out is if you can show the ticket was issued in error or is written out with an error on it like worng reg ect...

if not i suggest pay the fine after you have written in to appeal ( if your appeal is not sucessfull)..because you wont win ,,,,,TRUST ME I DO KNOW WHAT Im ON ABOUT unlike most foolls on here with there ill informed information and there childish comments,,

 

Oh dear!

[My Real Name]

when parking on private property you are entering into a legaly binding contract PROVIDING there is signage worded correctly stating so... Also there must be sufficiant signage not just a small sign by the pay machine but signs all over the car park,if you dont pay ect and you are unlucky enough to get a ticket you MUST write in if the ticket is just disregarded like some ill informed fools on here might suggest then the parking company in question has a legal right to take lagal action against the registered keeper of the car ect..because the parking company is acting as an agent for the landowner and will no doubt have a written contract to prove so ,,the only way out is if you can show the ticket was issued in error or is written out with an error on it like worng reg ect...

if not i suggest pay the fine after you have written in to appeal ( if your appeal is not sucessfull)..because you wont win ,,,,,TRUST ME I DO KNOW WHAT Im ON ABOUT unlike most foolls on here with there ill informed information and there childish comments,,

Come on - If you're going to profess credibility and invite trust, at least show some degree of mastery of the written word.

 

Similarly, how about backing up at least one of your specious claims with some type of authority, be it statute, case law or common law.

 

I can't say that I'm holding out for a reasoned response though, but thanks for your input in any case.

[Al27]

Hurrah. I get to bring out a new picture for Ruddiger!

 

[dpick]

when parking on private property you are entering into a legaly binding contract PROVIDING there is signage worded correctly stating so... Also there must be sufficiant signage not just a small sign by the pay machine but signs all over the car park,if you dont pay ect and you are unlucky enough to get a ticket you MUST write in if the ticket is just disregarded like some ill informed fools on here might suggest then the parking company in question has a legal right to take lagal action against the registered keeper of the car ect..because the parking company is acting as an agent for the landowner and will no doubt have a written contract to prove so ,,the only way out is if you can show the ticket was issued in error or is written out with an error on it like worng reg ect...

if not i suggest pay the fine after you have written in to appeal ( if your appeal is not sucessfull)..because you wont win ,,,,,TRUST ME I DO KNOW WHAT Im ON ABOUT unlike most foolls on here with there ill informed information and there childish comments,,

 

Can you tell me what legally binding contract existed when NCP tried to charge me for returning to a car park within 2 hours when the fact of the matter was that I drove my car onto car park to shop at 9am and my neice then returned in my car to do her shopping at 10.45am on the same day where is the contract with me for the second time I was not in the car and they just used CCTV. I would dearly love them to take me to court but as allways they gave up after half a dozen letters.

 

dpick

[letshelp]

,if you dont pay ect and you are unlucky enough to get a ticket you MUST write in

 

Can you point me in the direction of the legal authority you are relying on to support this statement?

 

if the ticket is just disregarded like some ill informed fools on here might suggest then the parking company in question has a legal right to take lagal action against the registered keeper of the car ect..

 

As above......

 

because the parking company is acting as an agent for the landowner and will no doubt have a written contract to prove so ,,the only way out is if you can show the ticket was issued in error or is written out with an error on it like worng reg ect...

 

Instead of doing any of your suggested action, you could just ignore the nonsense sent by the PPC.

 

if not i suggest pay the fine

 

As above, please state the legal authority you are relying on, as a private company, to issue fines????

 

if your appeal is not sucessfull

 

Appeal:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D

 

 

 

..because you wont win

 

Of course not:roll:

 

 

,,,,,TRUST ME I DO KNOW WHAT Im ON ABOUT

 

Of course you do

 

unlike most foolls on here with there ill informed information and there childish comments,,

 

Thank you for your advice, you can get back to studying for your law degree now....:grin::grin::grin:

 

Safe to ignore anything this clown says....

regards

[pieboy100]

Just to update (you guys were so good to me it would be rude to not share the resolution)... I ignored all letters, as someone in this forum said, I got 2 from Minster Baywatch (ignored), 2 from Debt collectors (ignored) and 2 from Charles Grey/Michal Sobell (does this guy even exist???). The last letter was very threatening but I ignored it and have not heard anything since.

 

That was March. It is now May.

 

Make of that what you will... personally, I have been converted into believing PPCs have no authority or power.

 

pieboy

[letshelp]

Make of that what you will... personally, I have been converted into believing PPCs have no authority or power.

pieboy

 

Well done Pieboy. You are of course correct, PPC's and DCA's have absolutely no powers or authority whatsoever.

regards