WJMS vs BC/MC & RMA

[wjms]

Good evening one and all. I hope I am doing this in the correct fashion - been a very long term lurker and I think this is the correct forum for my post.

 

Long story short, I've got an issue with BC MasterCard. They have responded to my CCA request from Jan this year with the attached pdf file - personal details removed. I did not receive this in a timely fashion - the address the used was wrong and, as I now live in Germany, the efficient German postal system took their time getting it to me.

 

However, I am not sure that this is an enforcable CCA and, as such, have refused contact with BC, Mercers and now RMA claiming that they are in default when I actually do speak to them - persistant blighters too I might add. I also have asked them on a number of occasions to write to me in future and am not doing the security check with them.

 

Perhaps you could glance over the attached and see if I have any chance or if they have me by the short & curlys. Also, what is the form with now having permanent residence overseas? Can they 'get me' here?

 

 

 

Best,

Jim

 

Eek - how do you attach a file please?! I don't appear to be able to!

Edited November 26, 2008 by wjms
How can I make an attachment?

[slick132]

Hi Wjms and welcome to the BC forum.

 

Read here for help with attachments - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

[slick132]

Re the rest of your post, if you're permanently abroad, they are most unlikely to pursue you overseas. In fact this is pretty much unheard of, although a theoretical possibility exists.

 

However, if you have any assets here in the UK such as property, they would try and get a judgement against you and secure it against the ppty with a Charging Order.

 

They will also pursue the matter as soon as you return to the UK, if this is within 6 years of when you defaulted on repayments.

 

When you post the CCA response here, it can be checked so you can decide how to proceed.

[wjms]

OK, the attachment option is disabled for me. Not sure why! However, will attempt to post the image files of the scan onto a hosting site and attach them here.

 

Thanks for the response so far Slick, good news is that it is unlikely I will be returning to the UK in the near future and I don't own any property there.

 

Jim

[wjms]

 

 

 

There's also a three page printout of what they state are the current terms and conditions for the card. I have already sent the 'not a proper copy' response and a request that they stop hassling me over the telephone. Got logs of RMA's calls (plus Mercers earlier on this year). Can record them too if needed, although I either ignore them or refuse to go through security if I do inadvertently pick-up.

 

Welcome your thoughts.

 

Jim

Edited November 26, 2008 by wjms
Thumbnails rather than full images...

[slick132]

Hi Jim,

 

You may have not made enough posts to use the attachments feature (poss min of 5 but not sure on this) but the Photobucket images are fine.

 

The credit agree't copy is of very poor quality, which may, in itself, make it unenforceable. I'll see if we can get a good opinion on it for you.

 

If it's thought to be unenforceable, you'll have to correspond with BC.

 

If you've been lurking as you say, you'll know that getting BC to accept it's unenforceable is a long drawn out process.

 

However, this may be better than leaving the matter unresolved, which could leave a Default marked on your files and the DCA's ready to pounce on your return if it's within 6 years of your last pay't.

[steven4064]

Hi Jim

 

What they have sent does comply with your request under s78 of the CCA 1974 - under the 1983 regulations, they can comply by sending a copy of the applicataion form and current T&Cs - which is what they appear to have done.

 

Having said that, what they have sent is not enforceable for a number of reasons:

 

1. It doers not have your signature and the prescribed terms on one document

 

2. It is largely illegible.

 

In court, they ought to supply an original agreement. I doubt they can do this as the appliaction form is obviously from microfiche - the original will hae been destroyed, no doubt.

[wjms]

Slick, Steven,

 

Thank you both. So, if the s. 78 CCA has been complied with, what is my next step?

 

I am not overly concerned as I am relatively sure that I cannot be easily 'got to' over here and have nothing in the UK that they might get hold of... Then again, as I am a parent with children and no income currently, do you think I should make them an offer?

 

I had a couple of phone calls from RMA/NCO this evening - although I refused both times to confirm or deny my identity... He got quite shirty.

 

Welcome your further thoughts if you have a moment.

Jim

Edited November 27, 2008 by wjms
deleted personal info

[slick132]

Hi Jim,

 

It would be better to try and resolve this rather than ignore it.

 

However, that would mean writing to them from an address. If you use a UK address, they'll start to bombard you with demands.

 

So maybe do it from o/seas. Otherwise, they'll be back onto you when you return to the UK and you'll have a Default sitting on your credit files.

 

[wjms]

Thanks again for you advice. So, am I correct in thinking that I must now treat the CCA request as complied with even if I cannot read the application form (even the 'original' copy they sent?).

 

I am not worried about writing from an overseas address - they already have it since we've been living over here for the past few years.

 

I am also relatively confident that we will not be returning to the UK (other than to visit relatives) in the near future - ie not for the next 10 years or so.

 

I've sent them the - 'you've not complied with the CCA s. 78 request letter' on grounds of illegibility and also the fact that the original conditions are not attached - it is a microfiched copy, I redacted the microfiche number from the side - and I doubt that they have the original reverse of the application form. Even if they did you cannot see the reference to the T&C on the application... Am I correct in assuming that this is therefore non-enforcable?

 

Not sure how to play this from here and what I should be saying to them. I've not had a notice of allocation to RMA from Barclaycard. Silly really since this all started as a result of their ignoring my instructions to transfer the credit balance from my barclaycard to the mastercard account...

 

Jim

[steven4064]

The fact that it is illegible may mean they haven't complied. However, they clearly don't have anything else. The important thing is that it is not enforceable (even if it were legible).

[wjms]

I'm afraid I've just been rather nasty... They keep ringing me day in day out, so I just rang them to confirm their fax number (the one I had was wrong - 01772 843066 is the real one not as per their letter - 006 on the end). I refused to state who I was, and what the reference number was but that I wanted to send a fax through to the company which contained all the details. But, and this is the really nasty bit, before I did this I setup a VoIP number in Yorkshire which I used to place the phone call, and used my other German line to place the fax call. Childish I realise!

 

Contents of fax were:

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

I refer to the increasingly annoying number of telephone calls you are making to my home telephone number – 0049 XXXXXX.

As I am currently in discussion with your client – Barclays Bank – about this particular matter and the CCA 1974, s. 78 request I made in January this year still has to be properly complied with, I consider the agreement to be in default. Therefore under the relevant guidelines, laws and regulations you should not have been contracted to pursue this contested account.

To prevent any further breaches of numerous regulations and laws – including the various data protection regulations – I must now insist that you pass my file back to your clients, delete my details from your system and ensure that I receive no more telephone calls or other correspondence from your organisation, other than a letter to confirm that you have received this letter and are following and complying with the instructions contained herein.

Given the nature of this case I give you a grace period of 7 (seven) days to respond to my demands before I commence legal proceedings against your company to test my belief that you are in breach of, amongst other legislation:

Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

The Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

Plus, if you continue to harass me by telephone you will be in breach of the Communications Act 2003, s. 127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading.

You are also breaching several data protection regulations and laws, European conventions and local German law. I will also consider using the local court system to mount a claim against you in Germany should this be necessary and prove to be feasible.

Please note that all calls to my telephone are recorded and logged. They will be used in any possible litigation against your organisation. This includes all calls made by your organisation to my telephone number to date.

If you do not understand any of the above requirements and information, might I suggest that you consult a suitably qualified legal practitioner?

I look forward to hearing your response within the 7 day deadline and remain,

Yours faithfully,

ORIGINAL SIGNED

 

wjms

[steven4064]

How many calls are you getting per day/week?

[wjms]

Day before yesterday 3, yesterday 2, today (probably as a result of my fax) none.

 

Before that - several per day on average with the occasional gap.

 

I've since started to enjoy speaking to Mr Brown - he just doesn't appreciate that I won't speak with him and confirm my date of birth...

 

Jim

[steven4064]

If you can, start recording calls. Make sure you keep good records - time, date, who called. At this level you should have a case for harassment if you want to pursue it. But you will need hartd evidence.

[slick132]

Read this about recording calls.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=76&a=143

[wjms]

Thanks again to both of you. I've got an Asterisk telephone system at this end so all calls from a particular UK dialing code are now being recorded. I can also switch on recording on a call-by-call basis.

 

I've informed both BC and RMA/NCO that I am recording calls in my letters to them about the alleged harassment by phone, but am not sure if I need to tell them if they call and I answer it?

 

I doubt very much if I'll be actually doing anything with the records since I believe you have to go to court in person to put a plaint in and I am not planning on travelling back to the UK to do that!

 

Have a good weekend.

Jim

[slick132]

Hi Jim,

 

If you've told them by letter that calls are being recorded, I don't see why you'd need to repeat this.

 

.............and they do sometimes come out with stuff they really shouldn't be saying. It would be nice to have anything useful which can be passed to the appropriate authority, if they say anything naughty.

[wjms]

Good evening Slick,

 

Thanks again to both of you for your advice. There's been a rather worrying silence from both parties (BC and RMA/NCO) since I faxed them my letters. However, sure that something is in the post since I asked them to write to me in the future !

 

Otherwise, will see what they have to say. Until then, waiting out!

 

Thanks again,

Jim

[wjms]

OK, a letter today from RMA. Is it, as I think, pure hot air?

 

Jim

 

[slick132]

Hi Jim,

 

You could reply saying:-

 

I refer to your letter of DATE.

As you are already aware, this alleged debt is In Dispute with BC who have failed to supply a valid Credit Agreement.

Accordingly, should you continue to contact me in this regard and, in particular, if you place a Default on my credit records, the matter will be referred to the FOS for formal investigation.

Have you actually replied to BC pointing out why their CCA response was inadequate. If not, see here for a letter which you should adapt to reflect your own case and send to BC - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/167584-barclaycard-no-cca.html#post1821561

[wjms]

Morning Slick,

 

Thanks for the suggested response to RMA, I'll send that off today.

 

I sent a very similar letter off to BC stating that I find their response to my CCA request inadequate and that I consider them still to be in default. The other interesting point is that RMA are referring in their letter to something which, to my knowledge, BC have not sent to me. However, it may also be in the post I'll wait and see.

 

I'll keep the thread updated when I next get anything from them.

 

Jim

[wjms]

Update - 5 days on and still nothing heard.

 

I'll turn the kettle off now then.

 

Shame, I was quite enjoying talking to the chap from RMA occasionally...

 

not.

 

Jim

[wjms]

It was getting rather boring, but today's post brought:

 

Opportunity of a Lifetime!!!!

 

Are you fed up with continuing to try to settle the above account by instalments?

 

Would you jump at an opportunity to finally clear the balance in full?

 

Your account has recently undergone a review and our, Barclaycard, have allowed us to offer a number of fantastic options that will greatly assist you in clearing this account once and for all.

 

These options are to your benefit and include a SUBSTANTIAL reduction on the outstanding balance.

 

This offer is only available for a limited period.

 

We urge you to consider the proposal and call us to arrange this payment on:

 

01772 843004 / 08707 591132

 

Fax: 01772 843066

Email: [email protected]

 

Yours sincerely,

Humm. Not sure what exactly they are trying to achieve - other than getting me to acknowledge that the debt is enforceable!

 

Your thoughts would be welcome! My current plan is to ignore this drivel. It sounds like some sort of multi-level marketing scheme! The four exclamation marks are actually copied directly from the letter!

 

Jim

[the_shadow]

It was getting rather boring, but today's post brought:

 

Humm. Not sure what exactly they are trying to achieve - other than getting me to acknowledge that the debt is enforceable!

 

Your thoughts would be welcome! My current plan is to ignore this drivel. It sounds like some sort of multi-level marketing scheme! The four exclamation marks are actually copied directly from the letter!

 

Jim

 

If it was so good why didnt they put the offer in writing :grin::grin::grin: