Lowell/HFO claimform - old barclaycard debt **WON***

[Number6]

Hi Pank

 

Firstly, don't panic.

 

Second, get your acknowledgement of service in as DonkeyB suggested.

 

Thirdly, I echo DonkeyB's comment - how can they purchase a debt one day and then issue a summons the next?

 

Fourthly, is the Barclaycard 'agreement' that Turnbulls are basing the claim on the one that you posted on the first page of this thread? If it is then 1) it doesn't (IMHO) meet the legibility requirements of the Copies of Documents regulations and 2) it doesn't appear to contain the prescribed terms so it is probably unenforceable. However, it's very difficult to read it so I would certainly defend on the basis of illegibility first off.

 

These are all just thoughts for now, we'll work on a full defence in due course, the important thing now is to acknowledge the service to get you the 28 days.

[DonkeyB]

Other things to note: the claimant is HFO Services Ltd, yet the POC says HFO Capital. As there is no indication here of an assignment from Capital to Services, there appears to be no cause of action.

 

I'd like to know where this contractual interest rate of 12% comes from too.

 

Looking for more holes. Will try and get PT to have a look in.

[DonkeyB]

Next up:

 

We know the default notice issued by HFO on 17 Feb was duff. But I'm not sure they can actually issue a second default notice if the account has supposedly already been DN'ed and terminated by Barclaycard.

 

Have you ever received a supposed NoA transferring the debt from HFO Capital to HFO Services?

 

Also, can you post up a copy of the terms and conditions they sent you? This may be the best bit to shoot them down with, as they're highly likely to be (a) the wrong ones for the account and (b) defective, if past experience is anything to go by.

[42man]

Pank....some good advice given above....the first thing to do is to make sure you acknowledge receipt of the claim form, yo uneed to do this within 14 days of the date on the claim form.....if you wish to defend, then state that this is your wish, however you then get a further 14+3 days in which to submit a defence.....

 

If it was me in your shoes I would send this recorded delivery ASAP....

 

I have added the default aspect in despite it not saying that in the claim form but they have mentioned it (Consumer Credit Act) in their POC's (Particulars Of Claim)...Edit this as required.

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

[Rhia]

Pank - also - very important make sure you get this case transferred to your local court. As you are an individual, defending there should be no problem with this.

Northampton is the Macdonalds of the legal system. HFO and others shove stuff through there as it is easy to get a judgement online. Make sure it's with a district judge close to you so you can be on top of the paperwork.

It will also mean they will have to turn up when you defend - which they may well not do.

 

P.S. See you are actually in Northamptonshire. None the less get this to you local court and out of the Bulk Clearing System.

Edited March 16, 2009 by Rhia
Add P.S.

[42man]

Some info here Pank -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/130165-nationwide-cca-arrived-letter-6.html

[DonkeyB]

Great work as usual, 42man.

[Pank]

Hi Guys,

 

Thank you for your help. I have scanned and enlarge the Terms and conditions I was sent. They have no signature or date as fas as I can see and could be for anything.

 

With regards to Aknowledgment of service, I take it my defence will be

1. I intend to defend all of this claim? I have 14 days from the 13 March for the acknowledment, is it then 28 days from the date I aknowledge, or 28 days from the 13 March?

 

Can I do that on line, or should I send it recorded? I have not received any papaerwork moving the debt from capital to services, but since they bought the debt, persued me until it was no longer possible in one day ( grin) you never know what they are cabable of.

 

 

Cheers

T&C for Barclaycard.pdf

[Pank]

Sorry I got so many replies as I was typing my answer. Thank you 42man Rhia and Donkey. Will sent the aknowledment today recorded.

 

Cheers

[Pank]

How do I get the case moved to my local court?

[DonkeyB]

Once your defence is in, they will have 28 days to respond to the court and say they want to continue. They pay a fee, and then you will receive the Allocation Questionnaire - once this is filled in, the case should be automatically transferred to your local court.

[Number6]

Pank, do you have a fax machine?

 

I always send documents to my local court by fax, they're happy to accept them and I automatically have proof of sending and of receipt. Cheaper than recorded delivery as well.

 

If the summons is from Northampton can't you also register acknowledgement and defence online? Not certain about this, it's been a while since I dealt with moneyclaim online.

[Pank]

Dear All,

 

I have done my acknowledgement of Service on line. I do have a fax mashine I can use at work so that is not a probem. Will do as suggested as I have always sent all my documents by Special Delivery.

 

42Man, sent the letter you gave me, thanks again. I guess the next stage is now the defence? Or should I calm down for a minute?

 

Cheers

[DonkeyB]

i would calm down and go through all the bits of paper you have. Get a lever arch file or similar, and get all your paperwork/envelopes/records of calls in chronological order. Maybe attach post-it notes to each document to identify key points and failings. Then, when we try to get your defence together, you'll have a really clear picture of what you're relying on.

[Pank]

OK, will do. Its just all new to me, and I get nervous. Thank you!

[Number6]

Dear All,

 

I have done my acknowledgement of Service on line. I do have a fax mashine I can use at work so that is not a probem. Will do as suggested as I have always sent all my documents by Special Delivery.

 

42Man, sent the letter you gave me, thanks again. I guess the next stage is now the defence? Or should I calm down for a minute?

 

Cheers

 

I repeat... don't panic. Stay calm, there's nothing to worry about at this stage other than to do as has already been suggested and get all your documentation filed in order.

 

Make sure that it's OK to send documents by fax before you do so, if it's the court that shouldn't be an issue but please confirm with them first.

 

Obviously, should it get to that stage then you shouldn't be faxing your entire defence package to the court but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

Finally, remember, you're amongst friends here and we'll do our utmost to help you. Just stay calm and logical, it's never as bad as it seems - I can personally vouch for that having been through the mill several times.

[sillygirl1]

Well done so far Pank, they will probably try and intimidate you by telling you you MUST have a solicitor to defend their claim and ask for details of them, in your case you are a Litigant in Person and a solicitor is not needed as it will only take away money from you which you could 'possibly' pay them (there is a legal way of putting this to them)

 

Hopefully they will now be the ones panicking.

[Pank]

Thank you everyone,

 

Just a question. I have 14 days from the 13 March to get my Aknowledgment of service in, which is fine. Do I then have a further 14 days to get my deffence in ie. 28 days in total from the 13 March. Or do I have a further 28 days from the date I Aknowledge service?

 

I get a bit confused.

 

Many Thanks

[DonkeyB]

It's 28 days in total - acknowledging service gives you an extra 14 days.

[Pank]

Thank you Donkey.

[Pank]

Dear all,

 

I have today received all the papers that the solicitor is planning to use in their defence against me.

 

I have enclosed all the documents they sent apart from the statements. I have received statements for Jun 04- May 05, Jun 04 - Jun 05, Feb 07 - Apr 07. 6 statements have addresses on them where I have never lived.

 

There is also a fax that I sent to HFO before I found this site, they are going to use it as acknowledgment of debt, I am not sure they can do that?

 

One very interesting thing is that all the amounts have changed.

The Notice of Assignment which is not dated but was sent to me with other documents dated the 17 feb 08, the amount is now £2000 less then the letterI have. The letter is supposedly a copy of the letter they sent to me on Barclaycard letter head but the amounts are different and the lay out of the letter is not the same. The dates are the same. ( They are both on the Thread)

 

The same for their copy of the Defalt notice it has now all of a sudden gone down £2000. The summs do not correspond with their claim form.

 

The tems and conditions they are using I have not seen before and they are not dated or have a signature.

 

All documents I have posted along the thread. I now need to know can I carry on? Also should I make up some statements for the court with someone elses name on as it would be vary simple to do to show that it is possible.

 

The court claim is dated 13 March. I filed Acknowledgement of Service on the 18 March.

 

The Perticulars of the claim also seems a bit starange with the dates and the figures. Especially that now the claim is for £2000 less then what they have sent me. Also how can they have bought the dept on the 12 March 09, when they started persue me May 08

 

I now need help with my defence as I assume that Thurbull are using the papers they have sent me? I have enclosed all the docs they sent me today.

 

Thanks

Edited March 23, 2009 by Pank

[Number6]

Dear all,

 

 

I now need help with my defence as I assume that Thurbull are using the papers they have sent me? I have enclosed all the docs they sent me today.

 

Thanks

 

 

I downloaded the file but it won't open, my system says the file is irrepairably damaged. Can you try uploading it again?

[broken arrow]

Hi Pank

Did you ever receive a default notice from Barclaycard and if so does it correspond with the one TR have sent.

[broken arrow]

Pank

 

The amount on the default notice will be the amount when barclaycard sold your debt,the amount on the POC will include all their charges.

[Pank]

I will upload again.

I have not received a default notice from Barclaycard, but it will become all clear when you are able to look at the documents. HFO have sent 2 default notices with 2 seperate amounts on the same day, supposedly.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Pank