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Banks turning nasty, advice needed about CCA

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Hello

I joined this site a couple of days ago and am quite grateful and amazed at all the advice offered, I hope I've posted in the right place

 

I have Debts amounting to about £10.000 over two credit cards Barclaycard and Capital one and a Barclay's personal loan, the credit cards were taken out approx 4-5 years ago, unfortunately I fell into difficulties with payments last January as I had to give up work and care for my disabled husband, we now live on benefits. Initially I contacted all my creditors informing them of the situation, sending all the relevant paperwork and offered reduced payments which they all rejected, so I contacted Community Legal Services and they put an advisor onto my case, eventually she got them all to agree to a minimal payment in line with my circumstances, (Capital One sent me a very nice letter accepting the offer and stating they would stop interest on the account) after which she sent notification that she was closing the case as she had resolved the situation as far as she could. My problem is that literally within days of receiving her letter of closure the banks started sending me letters demanding full payment also threatening me with a home visit to collect the money, needless to say no mention of any previous agreements were mentioned, its as if they were waiting to pounce as soon as the third party with some legal weight was out of the picture.

I initially felt very embarrassed and ashamed that I couldn't pay my debts but because of their attitude I've decided to use as many of my rights as I can, I'm in the process of writing a letter asking for all copies of my credit agreement using template N from this site (thank you) my only worry is that I've been making my reduced payments regularly and am not sure whether this will make a difference as I'm acknowledging the debts and should I keep paying them

Thank you very much in advance for any advice offered

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I'm sure someone more qualified than I on this will come along and confirm, but asking to see (and then maybe challenging) the CCA isn't affected by you making payments. Once the card companies either don't fulfil their obligation and / or send you a CCA that isnt' enforceable then you can just stop making payments.

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Thank's so much for your reply, I have been worrying about this situation for ages now, it's good to know people are willing to help with advice

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Moving this thread to the Debt Collection Forum, where you should get some more help and advice...

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PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

 

IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.

If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.

 

Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

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Thank's so much for your reply, I have been worrying about this situation for ages now, it's good to know people are willing to help with advice

 

Hi MYSOMTOM, you're doing all the right things. Sending the CCA letter off is the first step - now you have to wait for the replies. When you get the replies, whatever they are, scan them and post them up on here so that people can advise accordingly - don't forget to remove personal details, barcodes etc.

 

There have been plenty of cases on here where, sadly, the banks will not take your circumstances into consideration. Your reaction is easily understood by everyone on here because to varying degrees, we've all suffered in a similar way.

 

It would be worth reading this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/99376-telephone-harassment-action-plan.html so that you know how to deal with the inevitable telephone calls that will come.

 

You'll get plenty of advice and support on here.

 

Good luck.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

  • Haha 1

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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Thanks again all, I'm sending off the CCA letter today will keep you posted

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Thanks again all, I'm sending off the CCA letter today will keep you posted

 

It's been just over two weeks since I sent off CCA letters regarding Barclaycard, Capital one and Barclay's personal loan and so far I've had no reply from any off them, not quite sure what if anything I should do next.

Many thanks for any help

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This is the follow up letter if they have failed to respond to your CCA request -

 

Send by recorded....and edit as required

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully


PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

 

IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.

If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.

 

Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

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Thanks again for all your previous help

I sent the second letter as advised to my creditors after having received no reply from any of them, but the day after posting I received the paperwork below from Barclays with reference to my Barclayloan and in answer to my original request for CCA. I applied for the loan online and am not sure if this is a legitimate copy of a credit agreement, it has been 'signed' online but has no personal signature as such, help would really be appreciated as to how I stand now

Thank you :)

 

 

Page 1

 

3116118078_66d9dd5389_b.jpg

Page 2

3116118084_f0d4d37b3b_b.jpg

Page 3

3116118088_7a1655bdff_b.jpg

Page 4

3116118090_105e1e58f1_o.jpg

 

Page 5

3116118096_5c0d23095d_b.jpg

copy of CCA from Barclayloan page 1.jpg

copy of CCA from Barclayloan.page 2.jpg

copy of CCA from Barclayloan.page 3.jpg

copy of CCA from Barclayloan.page 4.jpg

copy of CCA from Barclayloan.page 5.jpg

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Sorry to say it but it seems the t's and c's are there and if this is from 2007 then all is needed is a tick box showing you agreed to the T's and C's

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162103-template-letter-needed-please.html


PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

 

IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.

If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.

 

Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

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There's no signature on the agreement! In order for it to be enforceable it has to have your signature on it and that of the bank. If only the bank sign then they have to take you to court to have it enforced and, in your circumstances, the judge would most definitely give you a repayment that YOU can afford.

 

Were you sent a document with signatures on it or is this it? Apart from the signatures being missing this looks to comply but they could have just made it up. The signatures are the most important part of the document. No signatures, no enforcement!!!

 

Kind regards

Gemspan


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The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Electronic Communications) Order 2004 came into force on 31st December 2004 and allows for a signature to be simply a tick in a box for on-line credit agreements.

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Thank you 42man and gemspan for your replies

 

gemspan this is the document exactly as sent (the only parts that I've changed are the blackened out parts) with no actual signatures by me or the bank just a tick box signature done online, the previous post by 42man advised that the document is acceptable because the loan was taken out in January 2007 and following his link to another thread (Template Letter needed PLEASE!!!! )it states "The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Electronic Communications) Order 2004 came into force on 31st December 2004 and allows for a signature to be simply a tick in a box for on-line credit agreements".

This does seem to leave things open to all sorts of trouble as anyone could tick a box, surely something at some stage should require a physical signature? I'm quite confused as to what to do next

Thank you both for your help and advice

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Hi there

 

Did you get an agreement in the post to sign? I agree that this leaves a lot of risk if a simple tick is being accepted as agreement. Anybody could be applying for the loan in your name!

 

I'm not up on the law from 2006 I'm sorry but it does seem to be an ass if that is what it was changed to.

 

Good luck

Gemspan


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I really do think that you just have to stick to your guns and send them a copy of the letter from the solicitor. You could also go back to the solicitor and advise them of what has happened.

 

Kind regards

Gemspan


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Hi

 

I have too been in debt for a couple of years now, but last November I started a DMP with Payplan. Before this, I was paying my creditors a small payment each month, but they were charging me a lot of interest. Some of my creditors in my DMP have agreed to freeze the interest which helps a lot. It may be worth trying an arrangement like this instead of making the minimal payments to your creditors directly? :)

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Thank you all for taking the time to offer help and advice and if nothing further developes between now and Christmas I hope you all have a happy one :)

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Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you, too, Mysomtom:) Best of luck with everything!

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There is no signature or tick on behalf of the bank. Correct me if I am wrong someone please but to make it enforceable don't both parties have to sign? Just a thought.

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Hi

 

I have too been in debt for a couple of years now, but last November I started a DMP with Payplan. Before this, I was paying my creditors a small payment each month, but they were charging me a lot of interest. Some of my creditors in my DMP have agreed to freeze the interest which helps a lot. It may be worth trying an arrangement like this instead of making the minimal payments to your creditors directly? :-)

Many thanks loobyloo85 but I did originally make repayment arrangements with Community Legal Services which were very quickly dieregarded as seen in my original post

 

I have Debts amounting to about £10.000 over two credit cards Barclaycard and Capital one and a Barclay's personal loan, the credit cards were taken out approx 4-5 years ago, unfortunately I fell into difficulties with payments last January as I had to give up work and care for my disabled husband, we now live on benefits. Initially I contacted all my creditors informing them of the situation, sending all the relevant paperwork and offered reduced payments which they all rejected, so I contacted Community Legal Services and they put an advisor onto my case, eventually she got them all to agree to a minimal payment in line with my circumstances, (Capital One sent me a very nice letter accepting the offer and stating they would stop interest on the account) after which she sent notification that she was closing the case as she had resolved the situation as far as she could. My problem is that literally within days of receiving her letter of closure the banks started sending me letters demanding full payment also threatening me with a home visit to collect the money, needless to say no mention of any previous agreements were mentioned, its as if they were waiting to pounce as soon as the third party with some legal weight was out of the picture.

Thanks for the advice anyway

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Hello all, I hope you all had a happy Christmas. I just thought I'd update you with my latest letters with regard to requesting CCA's from my banks, this little lot are from Capital One, I received the first one on 18 Dec

3150676738_1795961d1f_o.jpg

 

The next letter arrived on the same day but in a seperate envelope and is supposed to be my credit aggreement (I've included the covering letter) :)

 

3150647274_a7e95e9965_o.jpg

 

Page one

 

3150644438_f37d2cdd77_o.jpg

 

Overleaf

3150644434_b5804e20ac_o.jpg

 

and here's the leaflet sent with the above

 

 

3150644440_40d23f7c7c_o.jpg

 

 

The following letter arrived on Monday 22 Dec and crossed over between my receipt of the above so called ' Credit agreement' and the 'account in dispute' letter which I sent because I'd received no replies during the 12+2 days (as advised by 42man, many thanks)

 

3150644442_3364a5da20_o.jpg

 

Page 2

3150644446_57dbc5ee89_o.jpg

 

Page 3

3150647270_f69a1909e3_o.jpg

 

 

Any advice about what to do next would be much appreciated but even I'm pretty certain the so called credit agreement is not a true copy.

Many thanks to everyone again and I wish you all a happy new year :)

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that without a properly executed document bearing (ideally) both signatures, they do not have a contract.

 

There is some debate about whether their signature can be left off or represented by a stamp, but it MUST contain your signature.

 

Look at it this way, if I decided I would loan you £50 at 1 trillion per cent interest per annum, sent you the money through the post, you spent said monies and I tried to claim my squillions in interest, I don't think I'd get through the court door without a document bearing your signature saying you'd agreed to the terms:D

 

Why these flippin' financial houses think they can defy the law is beyond me. I got a response from Natwest, saying pretty much the same cobblers as you've been told by capital 1, but in much more abusive and threatening terms.

 

You could try sending them the following letter - it didn't get me anywhere, but as Capital 1 can at least keep a civil tongue in their head, you never know;

 

Dear xxxxx

Thank you for your partial response to my CCA request that I made on the xxxxx ; however, as you are aware, you did not include a copy of my agreement.

I am aware that section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sets out clearly what is required to comply with my request and quote “shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it” For clarification I required a copy of the agreement, any terms and conditions from the time when the agreement was executed together with a copy of current terms and conditions and a copy of the cancellation notice if the agreement refers to “Your Right to Cancel” within it. I also required a statement of account as laid out also within Section 78(1).

 

I was entitled to receive the information on request. I enclosed a payment of £1.00, which represented the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Please note that these funds were not to be used for any other purpose.

 

I note that section 172 outlines that statements by creditors are binding where made under inter alia section 78(1) and I take this to be that any reply made in response to this request is binding upon you. Therefore you should have ensured that all documents requested were supplied. Any missing documents will be considered not part of the agreement and could therefore affect the enforceability of anything you send.

 

I respectfully request that you provide a copy of the original agreement signed by myself that you hold on file. If you still reject this, please provide clarification on the status of the Original Credit Agreement and confirm either that you hold the original signed agreement on file or a copy of it on microfiche or that you no longer hold the file.

 

Also please provide details of who I may address a subject access request to under the Data Protection Act 1998 section 7 so that I may obtain a copy of the original agreement should you fail to forward a copy in respect of this request

 

Yours faithfully

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Thanks for that underdog13, Happy new year! :)

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