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    • Preliminary hearing to determine whether there is a contractual relationship between parties - according to the hearing notice.
    • I had forgotten that the fleecers had already played a lot of their cards in the WS they made opposing your set aside application (post 12 for anyone looking in) so that means we can already tighten things up.   Obviously the paragraph numbering will now take one hell of a beating, but that can be sorted out later.   Observations in blue, changes in red.     IN THE COUNTY COURT SHEFFIELD    CLAIM NO: XXXX   HX PARKING LTD  (CLAIMANT) VS XXX (DEFENDANT)   Date: 3rd May 2022   Witness Statement   1. I Mr XXX, of xxx and I am the Defendant against whom this claim is made. 1.1. I was the registered keeper of the vehicle XXX. 1.2. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge they are true to the best of my information and belief.   INSUFFICIENT & CONFUSING SIGNAGE  This is likely to be one of your aces so will need a lot of work once you get photos.  The fleecers have also shown a plan where they claim there are signs (their WS post 12, PDF page 15 which you need to confront).   2. I confirm that i was the registered Keeper of the vehicle which is in question in this case and the vehicle was parked in Alma leisure centre Chesterfield. The vehicle was parked there because the driver went to McDonald’s for eat in (the bank statement proof exhibit 1).   3. There were no clear signs at the entrance nor in the car park, it was night time and weather was not clear as well.   3.  Even if the driver had seen the signs, they would have been extremely confusing.  A car is normally allowed to be parked for five hours, yet after midnight this is changed to one hour.  This begs the question for how long a motorist entering at 10pm for example is allowed to stay.  Is it for five hours until 3am or until 1am?   3.1. The PCN/NTK states "period of parking 00:02:05".  It is common sense that a couple of minutes was needed to enter the complex, find McDonald's and find a parking space, before the period of parking began, so it was likely the car entered the car park before midnight allowing the driver to park the car there for five hours.   4.  Even if the driver had seen the signage - they did not - the mention of a £100 charge is literally the last word on the last line of a long board of text.   4. I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any amount at all and this is my Witness Statement in support of my defence as already filed.     UNFAIR TERM   4.  In an interview with the local newspaper (exhibit XXX) Ms Ellie Berkeley, HX PCN administration team leader, said: “The five-hour maximum stay prevents workers from close by abusing the land and parking there for free, without using the shops on site" which makes sense.   5.  This therefore begs the question of why this limit is cut by a massive 80% after midnight when the cinema and eateries are still open.  The driver indeed ate at McDonald's.   6.  Ms Berkeley continued: "Five hours is sufficient time to visit the cinema and also eat at a restaurant".  Certainly five hours are sufficient.  One hour is not.    7.  I would maintain this is an unfair term under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 part 2 section 62 (6) ""A notice is unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations to the detriment of the consumer".  Such a term has absolutely nothing to do with efficient management of a car park and everything to do with trying to catch diners or cinema-goers out and thus have an excuse to issue PCNs.   NO KEEPER LIABILITY   5. The Particulars of Claim do not clarify in what capacity they believe I am liable but state that the Defendant is “liable as the driver or keeper” of the vehicle. This appears to be “fishing” for liability.  Is this really in the PoCs? - you need to look and find out.    The rest of your section is about the use of POFA at airports which is completely irrelevant.    Adapt LFI's suggestions re POFA and keeper liability -   First is the fact that they must have a parking period and it is quite clear that entering and leaving the car park does not constitute a parking period since some of the time the motorist is either driving around looking for a parking spot then leaving the spot and driving to the exit. All that takes time so that is one fail.   The other fail is in their wording when they are trying to transfer the liability of the alleged debt from the driver to the keeper. They are supposed to include at Schedule 4 s9 [2][f] this "(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)". That in itself makes it non compliant but the fact that they haven't got a parking period means they haven't met the applicable conditions.   PROHIBITION  This deals with no stopping cases.  Yours in not no stopping so it is completely irrelevant.   LOCUS STANDI   You have quoted a different contract in a different place with a different PPC.  You need to read and try to find holes in the contract they produced (post 12, page 15 of the PDF for anyone looking in).   Adapt LFI's suggestions -   Looking at their contract, the names of the signatories and their positions in their respective  companies have been redacted. You do need strict proof of who actually signed. There is no specific authorisation from the Client to allow Court action in pursuit of non payers. In section 11 which is like an addendum it states" the Company shall provide parking control" but doesn't state if that includes legal pursuit as well and it does not appear to be signed.   ILLEGAL SIGNAGE   8. After checking, I have found out that there in NO planning permission granted for said signs, therefore making them illegal as lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under the Road Traffic Acts 1962 and 1991 and no contract can be performed where criminality is concerned.   LFI's suggestion -   They are supposed to comply with the Law and the IPC code of Conduct and they have done neither. The new Private Parking Code of Practice  draws attention to it as well  s14.1 [g]  "g) responsibility for obtaining relevant consents e.g. planning or advertising consents relating to signs."   ABUSE OF PROCESS  I've cut some bits out as the CoP hadn't been published when the fleecers went after you.  Are you sure the Unicorn Food Tax in the PoCs is £60?   9. The Claimant seeks recovery of the original £100 parking charge plus an additional £60 described as “contractual costs and interest” or “debt collection costs”. No further justification or breakdown has been provided as required under Civil Procedure Rule 16.4.    9.1. As part of the provisions of the Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019, on 07/02/2022 a new Code of Practice was published by the government, designed to prevent these “rogue” traders from "ripping people off" (the minister's words) with extra charges, which have been deemed unfair (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/privateparking-code-of-practice/private-parking-code-of-practice).    9.3. Section 9 of the new Code of Practice, regulates the matter of recovery costs: “The parking operator must not levy additional costs over and above the level of a parking charge or parking tariff as originally issued.”   9.2. Even before publication of the government’s Code of Practice, Parliament intended that private parking companies could not invent extra charges. PoFA Schedule 4, paragraph 4(5) states that “The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper is the amount specified in the notice to keeper” which in this case is £100.    9.4. Previous parking charge cases have found that the parking charge itself is at a level to include the costs of recovery ie: Parking Eye Ltd vs Beavis (2015) UKSC 67 which is the authority for recovery of the parking charge itself and no more, since that sum (£85) was held to already incorporate the costs of an automated private parking business model and the Supreme Court Judges held that a parking firm not in possession cannot plead any part of their case in damages. It is indisputable that an alleged “parking charge” penalty is a sum which the Supreme Court found is already inflated to more than comfortably cover all costs. The case provides a finding of fact by way of precedent, that the £85 (or up to a Trade Body ceiling of £100 depending on the parking firm) covers the costs of the letters. Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated ‘’Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones-Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates [...] in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared [...] the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.’’    9.5. In Claim numbers F0DP806M and F0DP201T, Britannia vs Crosby the courts went further in a landmark judgement in November 2019 which followed several parking charge claims being struck out in the area overseen by His Honour Judge Iain HamiltonDouglas Hughes GC, the Designated Civil Judge for Dorset, Hampshire, Isle of Wight & Wiltshire. District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ‘’It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in ParkingEye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''    9.6. The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   Statement of Truth    I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.   I understand that proceedings for contempt of Court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.
    • Can you just remind us what is meant to be happening tomorrow
    • Thanks for your reply, we returned home to find the lock tampered with and it had been broken into.   Our alarm system had gone off and we have the log of which systems within the house had been triggered showing they had been in the house.   There was a letter left from a supposed bailiff addressed to a complete different property. The letter said they had been acting on behalf of SSE energy company.   Our home and street are clearly signed, we have no idea how they have managed to mistake our home for the other property! SSE told us not to call the police and they would get back to us within 48 hours, no explanation or apology.   We contacted the police anyway and got a crime number. Thanks 
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Hi everyone (we're not alone!!)


swift49
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Hi everyone,

 

This site is great!! I've been reading over a few of the threads over the last few days after coming across it on google. I've learnt so much already.

 

My wife and I have been battling with dept, ruthless collection agencies, court action, bailiffs etc for as long as we can remember in fact over a decade since we originally got into dept back at university.

 

We we're really starting to give up, feeling that we would never get out of this trap but finding this site has given us a new fighting spirit. It's so good to know that there is a community out fighting back and supporting each other. Its so good to know that we are not alone.

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Hi swift, welcome!

Have a good look around the site and familiarise yourself with it

Then when you want help with anything specific post in the relevant department

I QUESTION THEREFORE I AM!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you! :p

 

 

I have been smoke-free for 4yrs

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Here is a couple of links to get you started swift, before you start your thread;)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/

 

 

 

 

 

If you find theses helpful, please click on my scales to the left and leave a short comment.

 

 

Thank You

 

 

If all else fails, kick them where it hurts and SOD'EM;)

 

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Welcomes echoed Swifty-good to see you here.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Thanks for the welcomes guys,

 

I'm just doing a bit of thread reading to get me up to speed to start off with. I have a few issues which i'm sure you guys will be able to help me with so will be starting a few threads shortly.

 

Thanks.

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Hi Guys,

 

I've sent a number of CCA's off to a number of the DCA's who are currently harassing me. There are a few who I believe are acting on debts which are unenforceable. There is also one which I believe may be currently statute barred. What kind of response can I expect to get from the CCA's? Also, what kind of response should I give back if I’m not provided with the information requested in the CCA?

 

There is one DCA in particular which I am currently struggling to maintain the instalment amount which they dictated to me.

 

It is with DLC (Direct legal & collections). Originally, the finance was provided by VW finance for the purchase of our car. We ran into problems late last year and fell behind on our monthly instalments. Unfortunately, the account was passed onto DLC and VW now refuse to discuss the account with us. I'm guessing that DLC may have bought the account from VW.

 

Once the account was passed to DLC they forced us to pay off the current arrears. The car was really needed at the time as I used it to commute to work so by off-setting a number of other priority commitments we managed to pay off the outstanding areas.

 

From there, DLC forced us by harassment to pay £500 a month to stop any further action. Our original credit agreement was only £344 a month, but they still insisted that we pay £500 a month. Being naive we complied with this and they said that they would review the account in 6 months with a view to reducing the instalment amount to what we were originally paying.

 

We kept to the £500 instalment amount for the 6 months seriously neglecting our other obligations. Then after 6 months we asked them if we could reduce the monthly amount which to our surprise they replied NO!

 

We are now really struggling because of the missed payments to our other commitments and have missed the last payment to DLC.

 

They have not contacted us about this but we have just sent a CCA to them as we have no idea if they have added any charges to our account or where the payments we have made have gone to.

 

Most likely, they will be able to provide the CCA. If they do, we want to negotiate a reasonable instalment amount that we can comfortably afford without neglecting our current obligations. Is there a template anyone could recommend for us to do this?

 

I believe we have paid off approximately 2 thirds of the outstanding balance and are actually ahead of the original payment schedule we had with VW!

 

If anyone could suggest what we should do when we get a response from them that would be much appreciated.

 

I’m sorry for the long post and thank you all for all your help.

 

BTW. Would it be better for me to post this in another forum?

Edited by swift49
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If your looking to see if there are charges on the account and what has been paid off you should send an SAR. Same as CCA request- special delivery, no signature. They would have to give you all the information they hold on you from credit agreements, telephone conversations etc etc.

DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998

SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

Dear Sir/Madam

Account No

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within your internal record systems with regard to credit cards. Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my history with your organisation. Alternatively a complete set of statements for the account and associated accounts is acceptable. I would be grateful if you would provide the following for ALL accounts or associated accounts I have with your organisaton:

Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and you organisation including true signed copies of any documents you hold in support of the same.

-A complete list of all transactions or statements and charges relating to my credit card accounts.

-Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

-Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence information, postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial details which pertains to me.

-Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration signed by an authorised member of your company confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

-Full hard copy printouts of my personal information held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices/ locations.

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £10 to cover your fee.

IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROTECTION.

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

Yours Faithfully

 

They have 40 days to comply with your request. The one you think may be stat barred- when was the last time you paid or acknowledged it?

Don't worry about posting here one of the mods can move it if needs be:) Good luck

 

 

 

 

 

 

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<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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Thanks for replying Fedup. Do you think I shold wait for them to respond to the CCA first before sending an SAR?

 

Also, the account which I believe may be status barred i'm sure I haven't had any dealings with for at least 6 years. The agreement was originally made aprox 11 years ago now.

 

Once again thanks for your advise.

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Hi swift,

 

if you think there has been no correspondence whatsoever in the last six years then just hold out for the CCA. If the debt is now Statute Barred, you would just be wasting the £10 you need to send with an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

 

 

If all else fails, kick them where it hurts and SOD'EM;)

 

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Dear Sir/Madam

Reference number

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number which you claim is owed by myself.

I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "An action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the course of action accrued."

I would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "It is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period."

The last payment of this alleged debt was made well over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can prove evidence of payment or written contract from me in the relevant period under section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me to recover the alleged amount claimed.

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "Continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated they will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to harassment contrary to Section 40(1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970."

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed and that no further contact will be made concerning the above account after that last letter. I look forward to your reply.

Yours Faithfully

 

Hi swift here is the Statute Barred letter should you get any more correspondence from them. It is up to them to prove otherwise. (Ta for rep:)) Good luck

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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Hi Fedup, Sod'em, great names by the way :). Once again thanks for the advice. It looks like the best way forward is to wait for their response from the CCA and then send them the letter posted by Fedup.

 

Cheers again guys and good luck with your S.A.R. NRTGUP.

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Hi Guys, I need a bit of help. I received a letter today from one of the the DCA's who I've issued a CCA too, saying the following:

 

"Thank you for yo letter dated 25th November 2006 regarding the above account. I can confirm and advise the following:

 

1. Hillesden Securities T/A direct & legal & collections are an agency collecting on behalf of our client, Volkswagen Financial Services UK Ltd.

2. Your request for information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is required to be made directly to the client that legally owns the above account; Volkswagen Financial Services UK ltd.

3. Please forward your request to Volkswagen Financial Services UK Ltd and they will respond to you."

 

The also returned my £1 postal order

 

I thought that the DCA acting as the agent recovering a debt on behalf of an OC was also required to provide this information by either requesting it from the original OC or from their own records.

 

What would you suggest I reply to them with regarding this? Is there a template that anyone could recommend that I can base my reply on?

 

Thanks for all your help.

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What ive done, rightly or wrongly, but there you go.......... is sent a full request, charge and all to the owner of the debt, in yuor case vw group and sent a copy of the request to the debt collector with a letter, just saying for your information this request has been submitted..........

 

Mine was to my mortgage co and their solicitors, so I dont know if it will get me anywhere but we shall see........

 

Just resend yours to the corres. address for the loan company.....They "should" know what charges are being added, they instructed them afterall.....

 

As for their correspondance to you, surely they should be able to give you the information from their end.........

 

FedUp74, are you around? What do you reckon?

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Swift,

 

I would send the DCA a letter telling them that the account is in dispute and you would be grateful if they would stop asking you for the money. If they cannot supply you with the information you asked off them, then they should have no right to ask you for any money.

 

Just my opinion by the way

 

 

If all else fails, kick them where it hurts and SOD'EM;)

 

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Hi swift, they are talking through their posteriors as usual. You have made a perfectly legal request, they are collecting money on "Their clients" behalf. If tthey are asking you for money, they need to supply your agreement. File this under ignore, your account is in dispute. Don't send VW a request, you've done your bit. Moorcroft done exactly the same with me- please request agreement off original company. I knew I had made my request and as they tried to pass it on, I ignored theirs. They decided to pass it back to original company and I've heard no more off them. Is their time limit up yet? I would wait for that to pass, then see what gems they send you and then whack them with Account in Dispute letter. This should shut them up:D

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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