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RBS business a/c clarification of OFT review


jarogold
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Hi, this is my first post and wondering if anyone can help me.

 

I am claiming charges from RBS for the last 5 years. Sent my initial letter to them asking reimbursement and received a standard letter back today saying that "charges are fair, reasonable ..." which is what i expected. However at the end they said "OFT has made clear that their review does not cover business accounts, which operate under different t & c from personal accounts" and referring me to my business manager.

 

Is this true? I already approached my business manager and he wasnt very helpful hence the reason for going direct to the customer relations unit. From reading various threads on this site i was led to believe that people were successfully reclaiming bank charges on their business accounts.

 

Any help would be much appreciated...:)

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Hi Joarogold, thanks for the pm. Probably better on the thread so others can follow what you're doing.

 

I was not with your RBS bank, but I got my £1200 back through sending a letter explaining the same arguments as if I were a personal account holder. In the templates letter there are different cases to quote than the personal account letters but other than that the same principles/laws apply.

 

What your manager has said is untrue. ANY charges which are a penalty which do not reflect actual or liquidated loss for the charges applied are unlawful and I used that argument along with taking the approach that I respected the relationship I had with the bank ( which I do ) and that I did not wish to go down the route of litigation just to prove my point which with thier teams of lawyers they know to be true.

 

If I were in your position, if you have a reasonable relationship with them , I'd write back in a more personal fashion requesting that since finding out about this site and the overwhelming evidence that these charges have been applied unlawfully, whether they knew it or not, you would like them to reconsider the response and have the monies plus interest returned so that you can continue with the business rather than fighting them. You are not asking for anything other than what is lawfully yours back and it would be preferable rather than them referring to T & C's which are effectively unlawful anyway unless they are prepared to demnonstrate to you that their charges, despite being in their terms & Conditions, actually reflect their cost which is only what a judge in a court of law would ask them to do anyway! - Which NO bank are prepared to do due to the fallout when they do.You might also remind them that should it be subsequently proved that they knew that these charges were unlawful the statute of limitation of six years becomes void and you can estimate charges going way back beyond six years. You wiull however, settle for the 5 years you are asking for as a ' goodwill gesture' if you feel like it!!

Leaving the impression mind you, that if litigation is the way they wished to go after considering your reasoned argument you will reluctantly reserve the right to take that route.

 

If that fails to move them then sue them as you can take the same line as the 40000 others on the site! Good luck and keep posting I'll keep an eye on the thread.

  • Confused 1
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Thank you so much andrew1 for your reply - it is most informative. You have rebouted my confidence and i will be sending a letter off to them today. Will let you know what response i receive when i get it. Although, i have been dealing with tommy mclean and i read on another thread earlier that he is currently away on holiday at the moment - the wheels of industry move very slow but i guess he must be exhausted with all these complaints he will be dealing with at the mo!

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Actually, when I sent the second letter I addressed it to a Director because I got fed up with dealing with customer services who didn't really understand what was going on in the outside world with these claims. They were obviously briefed as to what to say to customers ( refer to T & C's etc.. write to Ombudsman et al !!) but didn't have the clout to make any decisions and didn't really understand the nitty grittys of what we have going on on this site.

 

I like to deal with people who make decisions so my arguements are not lost on someone just following orders so I wrote to a Director and it was received in the 'Executive' complaints department. I then had a phone call from someone used to dealing with sensible conversations and I just reiterated the common sense aspects of the whole argument about charges. ( I am a salesman / negotiator anyway so I am not frightened of putting a case across). By being able to ask him what he thought about the whole issue and press the point about it being ' obviously' unlawful given that the banks don't challenege it in court and 'what's the point in going to court over something destined to be settled out of court anyway when we can talk sensibly here and now' I think that was what won the day.

 

It may not work for you, that will depend on your relationship and how you sell it, but it worked for me - it was just the inevitability of it all that sold it for me - these charges ARE unlawful so why bother with all the hastle - pay me back and we can get on with life !

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Yes i can see your point but i'm just nervous that if i start sending correspondence to another department everything is just going to get lost in transit and it is going to take even longer. i'll check through some rbs contact details on this site and see what they say. Many thanks for all your help and particularly for sending me copy of the letter you sent to your bank. It makes perfect sense to me so lets hope they agree and dispense with the need for all this unnecessary litigation nonsense!

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If you don't get passed the customer service clones and speak/write to someone in authority your arguments will fall on deaf ears. They are swamped with letters like ours just now so you have to find a way through them. Address your letter to the Director of Customer Services Private & Confidential once you've got his name (pointless otherwise) then he probably won't answer it himself but the delegation process seems to give your letter a certain amount more in ressenance. You might also like to give praise to your manager by name but stress he obviously is unaware of the finer details of claims relating to unlawful chagres. Boost him up whilst stabbing him at the same time expalining why you had to go over his head.

 

Good luck anyway. I'll be interested to hear what happens.

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Okay, thanks for that. I just got your message after posting the letter in the postbox outside my house, but I think I might just send the same one addressed to the Director aswell and see who responds first - gosh you never know, I might get my money refunded twice!!

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Well, I did not receive a reply to my letter so I sent another one asking for a reply by the 21st August otherwise I would consider taking my story to a national daily newspaper - I got this idea after reading the thread by Telewest. And I still did not receive a reply so I telephoned them yesterday to find out what was happening and they said that a letter was being sent out this week reconfirming their position. When I asked him to clarify what he meant by this he basically evaded the question which I take to mean that their position is that they wont be settling but I shall wait and see.

 

In the meantime, i had also followed the same procedure for a personal account with Bank of Scotland and I also hadnt received a reply to either of my letters so I phoned them yesterday. Their position was the same as their previous letter which was an offer of about 15% of what I am looking for. When I explained to them that I had been following this forum and that I had been advised to pursue them for the full amount and that that is what I would be doing if I didnt get the full amount returned to me now, I was basically told to go ahead!

 

So I am now feeling rather deflated. I did explain to them that surely it would be in their interest to settle now instead of having to pay out interest and court costs in addition to what I was claiming now, but he seemed totally unbothered.

 

So I have now prepared my Claim and will be taking it into Court tomorrow to start the ball rolling. Here goes....

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Pity, but good luck.

 

The line I have been using is similar and I just ask them on the phone to tell me if, when they get to court they are going to defend my claim and tell the court what their real and actual charges are. If so, because that's all we want to know, why can't they tell me now and let us get on with life. I just state the obvious, it's unlawful until they tell us the true costs so if they get to the court and try to settle out of court then I will tell the judge the eforts I made to settle this without wasting the courts time when so many thousands of others are being taken to the court steps only to be settled 'out of court' abusing the court process.

 

I had RBS telling me (in writing) that the OFT's 'legal position' was that £12 was what the charge should be now - Oh yeh? Not their legal position madam just a guide - saying anything over that would be deemed unfair. I said when it only costs 50p to send a letter even £12 is unlawful - she's gone to consult with their legal department!

 

By the way, these offers of 15%. They are making it sound like they are doing you a favour. They are not in a position to make offers like that. If you robbed their house, not only would they charge you with theft they would want ALL their goddies back - not 15% of them. Tell them to get lost and to stop being so insulting - the law is on YOUR side.

 

Anyway, good luck, don't whatever you do get deflated, this to me is like a sales job - its just what you say and how you say it, the end product is the 'sale'.

 

"Keep a positive mental attitude through the assumption of a negative result" :D

 

 

and you'll win....

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Thank you for your kind words of wisdom. I am proceeding today with the claim against B of S for my personal account and when they go to settle out of court will try to get them to agree to just settling the whole lot rather than go through with a whole lot of claims for £750 which will take forever. And I will wait to get the written reply from RBS and maybe phone them again for one last try assuming they are still not going to cough up!

 

Will keep you updated...

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  • 2 months later...

Andrew1

 

I read your reply re: writing to a Director of the bank and like the tactic.

 

I am just about to embark upon this claiming process for unlawful charges that have been made on my accounts and intend to write to the Chairman of the bank. I do believe like you, in going straight to the top as this often gets results quicker and with less hassle/work involved for me.

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Andrew1

 

I read your reply re: writing to a Director of the bank and like the tactic.

 

I am just about to embark upon this claiming process for unlawful charges that have been made on my accounts and intend to write to the Chairman of the bank. I do believe like you, in going straight to the top as this often gets results quicker and with less hassle/work involved for me.

 

 

Well' since processing these claims maneman I have had a mixture of experiences with 'them' at the top! Abbey national for example, I wrote to the Retail Sales Director - Grahame Hardie, now theres a man who shows he couldn't give a twopenny toss about his customers. I've written to him after being given the runaround by customer services ( who were at least polite and courteous despite telling me what I didn't want to hear) - that's not the point though. This Director, after being sent a 4 page letter expalining the CAG position and the law, giving him the option to aire his veiws and defending the banks position and the option of saving the bank money by paying up without the legal route DID NOT REPLY, he passed on the letter to a customer services pleb who wrote saying she had been passed the letter by Mr Hardie and feck off to the ombudsman if you are not happy (more or less!) so I sent another letter back to Mr HArdie with a copy of this letter asking him to explain himself to which I had no reply of course. So Director? I think not - too afraid to justify his big salary and too fancy to be able to write letters and too ignorant not to write and say he was passing it onto one of his team. I had, after all, only been a customer for 21 years - not worthy enough - I'll see that frigger in court and send him an invitation to the payout ceremony!

 

So, It doesn't always work! But I wish you luck with yours.

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