Goodwillie & Corcoran

[Anthony2505]

Hi,

 

New here and have been reading with alot of interest. I just wanted to put my story on here to here what people think. I had two liability orders go to the above baliffs at the same time. Both for council tax. One for £372.47 and one for £364.64. They left a note through my door saying they had been out and if I didn't pay they would take my stuff. When there letters came through the door the amounts were £1185.26. When I phoned he said he wanted £200 by the next day and that he wouldn't accept less than two hundred pounds a month. I phoned him the following day and paid the two hundred by debit card over the phone. I couldn't afford two hundred a month so phoned he office and agreed to pay one hundred which I was. I missed a couple of months and then they came out again. By July the letter saying they were comeing back to enforce liability it was £842.44 and by July they came back with a copy saying £946.44. Menwhile I wrote to the main office saying I could only afford £50 thats why I had been paying that. The letter I got directly from the office only said £590.64. This time it got to the end of September and even though I had been paying the £50 they came back out and left a letter saying it was £842.44. I still paid the £50. A different guy came back in November and put a copy of this letter through my door with £842.44 scribbled on it and "removal of goods booked for this week" scribled down the bottom. I phoned the office because the guy who came out wouldn't answer his mobile or phone me back, and when I offered to pay the office over ther phone he told me he couldn't take the payment, I would have to speak to the guy who came out.

 

My wife managed to get in touch with him and he told her that he would not accept less than £300 and we had to pay him. They have a website with my account on and it says that the amount outstanding is £590.64. He came round to my house and my wife wouldn't let him in. She paid the £300 and got a receipt. He told her he wanted the rest by next week. She asked why the differnce in amounts and was told "that dont have my fees on it" and went.

 

I went back on to there web site yesterday and the amount has gone up to £745.72 and now there is a box marked "VRM" with my friends registration number in it.

 

I have sent a letter that I thankfully got off here to them asking for my details and charges. But they wont get that until Monday. He wants payment by next Friday.

 

I would apreciate any advice and comments on this. And I appologise for going on but didn't want to miss anything.

[chris600uk]

youve been conned

Stop talking to bailiffs, it will cost you money that you don't need to pay.

Do everything in writing from now on and refuse to even acknowledge their existence if they visit your house again

Check your own liability with the council

Check the bailiff name against the register

Challenge the fees using one of the template letters

Pay the council direct online

[chris600uk]

you've nothing to apologise for, if you can't "go on " to us, there's little point in us being here

[Guest BURP]

Anthony, I will echo Chris's comments, its very good advice. Your post says the same bailiff is handling two liability orders concurrently for a combined council tax debt of £737.11. You also say the bailiff has indicated he is levying on your friends car. Say nothing to the bailiff about this and he may find out the hard way. The law that prescribed bailiff’s fees for collecting unpaid council tax is Regulation 14(2) and Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and it prescribes maximum bailiffs fees of £24.50 for a first visit and £18.00 for a second visit. The law doesn't provide for bailiffs to charge fees because he has entered your property. He has not moved any goods but your post indicates your wife may have signed a walking possessions agreement he can charge a flat rate of £10. You can deduct that £10 if the liability order is not in her name. If your letter gets no positive response then try these. If the bailiff has overcharged you then he will become unstuck.

 

The Omnipotent Bailiff Co, Plc

Their Address 1

Their Address 2

Their Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME + REF]: Opportunity to refund and compensate for fee error

 

I write following visits by your bailiff, however there appears to be an irregularity with your fees and I ask you to provide the following within fourteen (14) days:

 

a) The name of the certificating court and certificate number for the bailiff in charge

 

b) Written confirmation of your fees and charges

 

c) Truthfully confirm in writing they are lawful according to prescribed legislation

 

d) The name and address of the person or body you act for

 

If you cannot complete the above, please unconditionally pay me within fourteen (14) days a refund of all unlawful fees and unconditionally pay me compensation of £4999.00 for failure to comply with the law and I will consider this aspect of the matter closed.

 

If I later find an irregularity with your fees within the statutory time limit of 6 years prescribed under Section 2 of the Limitation Act 1980, I will enter no further correspondence with you and automatically file a Form 4 at court for committing offences under the Fraud Act 2006. This may also involve a criminal investigation by police and your firm's director(s) may receive a criminal record for fraud, assisting an offender and benefiting from proceeds of crime.

 

This document is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It is your responsibility and in your best interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

YOUR NAME

 

Do as Chris says and keep this letter handy and pass it through a window if a bailiff turns up. Never open the door and say 'the matter is now in the hands of a solicitor'

 

[DATE]

 

BY HAND

 

Dear Bailiffs.

 

Re: Your Reference

 

[NAME OF] Council appears to have instructed you to collect unpaid council tax.

 

This notice directs that you are not being given entry to my home or to levy goods contained within and your entitlement to charge a Walking Possessions fee stands revoked. Please be advised that if your fees are found to contradict Regulation 14(2) or Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and you may be liable for criminal prosecution under the Fraud Act 2006. Without corresponding with you further I will also automatically file a Form 4 at court.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt in whole and will make payment of £[AMOUNT] each month for [NUMBER OF] monthly instalments direct to the council.

 

These are the only payments I can afford and allows me to pay future council tax liabilities without falling into arrears. Please be advised it is not a "criminal offence" for me to deny a bailiff entry to my property and it is an offence to threaten me with breaking and entering with "locksmiths".

 

Please provide me with a breakdown of your fees, put it through the letterbox and quietly leave the property.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

YOUR NAME

 

 

Write to the council

 

Council Tax (Enforcements) Department

Invincible Borough Council

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME & ANY REF]: Visit by your bailiff on [DATE]

 

I have had an opportunity to seek advice and I write on the understanding that case law has ruled an authority is liable for its bailiffs.

 

On [DATE] I was visited by your bailiff collecting unpaid council tax. We were unable to reach an amicable resolve and the bailiff showed threatening behaviour and became vexatious in nature. He made unrealistic demands of money which are way beyond my means.

 

I now ask the Council to:

 

a) Take the case back from the bailiff.

b) Accept my original offer to pay £[AMOUNT] a week to clear the arrears

c) Pay me a reasonable compensation for my inconvenience and for my efforts in seeking discovery of information and

d) Receiving an over-zealous bailiff acting for you making unrealistic demands of money and defrauding me with his fees.

 

If you fail to satisfactorily complete the above I will automatically escalate the complaint to the local government ombudsman in fourteen days from the date of this letter.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt as demanded by the bailiffs and I will make payment of £[AMOUNT] each month for [NUMBER OF] monthly installments with a final installment of £[AMOUNT]. This may seem a long time but it's all I can afford and allows me to pay future liabilities without falling into arrears. I confirm I am not refusing to pay this debt.

 

This letter is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it to be served on you by the ordinary course of post in the meaning of Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It is your responsibility and in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

[NAME]

Enc 1st payment.

[Anthony2505]

Hi,

 

Thanks so much for your responses. I am doing the letters now. In aswer to your question though, when he came round to see my wife she didn't sign anything. Does that make a difference with cars in general?

 

Thanks again.

[Guest BURP]

Yes, your post says the car VRM written on a document by the bailiff is for a vehicle belonging to a friend. A bailiff cannot levy on somebody elses goods. The levy is invalid and no fee applies. Keep the document safe and say nothing to the bailiff. Cars purchased on an HP agreement where the final payment hasn't yet been made cannot be levied either.

[letsmakeamark]

You freind needs to get his car valued and if anything is wrong should keep it zipped.

[Anthony2505]

This may make you laugh.

 

I sent off the SAR last week along with my £10 postal order. I have noticed this morning on the baliffs web site that they have taken the £10 off my account.

 

I have emailed asking why as they will not pick the phone up!

[Guest BURP]

The above letter doesn't need a £10 fee. That only applies when you make a Subject Access Request under Section of the Data Protection Act.

[Anthony2505]

Hi,

 

I have just spoken to Goodwilie and Corcoran who said that they charged £112.11 as an attendance fee and a fee for leveying goods. When I asked about the £24.50 she said they could charge what they like when coming out again. And when I asked about the levy fee she said she didnt know.

 

She also told me that they hadn't recieved my request for fees added to my account but hen I told her that somebody had signed for it at there end she told me that the guy who deals with it is on holiday until next week.

[Guest BURP]

They have admitted overcharging you. Add up all the unlawful fees to a grand total. You have a right to make an official complaint against the bailiff in charge. Phone the Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 and ask which court issued his certificate. Download an official complaint form http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf and send the form to the certificating court with a simple covering letter asking for it to be placed before a judge. In the Details of Complaint - Your post is a vit vague with the fees so tweak as needed.

 

On [DATE] I was visited by the bailiff collecting unpaid council tax. He demanded £[AMOUNT] plus fees of £[AMOUNT]

 

The bailiff enforced the debt and charged fees I understand the correct fee is £24.50 but his fees don’t correlate to those shown in the prescribed regulations setting fees for bailiffs. I also understand this may commit an offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 by seeking to defraud me of £[AMOUNT]. I did not sign anything given to me by the bailiff and no goods have been transported giving raise to any reasonable costs prescribed under the regulations.

 

I have tried to reach an amicable resolve with the bailiff and his firm but they have become defensive and vexatious in nature. I understand the bailiff is trying to charge £112.11 as an attendance fee and further fees for levying goods.

 

I ask that I am reasonably compensated for seeking discovery of information and bringing this matter to court

[Letdownbybanks]

Im going to repost this as it is a newer thread (see alexteh"s thread below)

 

I have had the dubious pleasure of meeting G&C's mr A Leader today (what are the odds that isn't his real name, i've not seen a person with less leadership qualities in my life), he popped round this morning and made my mother cry on her own doorstep and then was just plain vexatious to me, unwilling to discuss anything other than how he was going to take things away and to deny that he was the first baliff to call about this matter claiming that someone had been round the 23rd of january (last monday). a day i spent watching tv with my mum not ten feet from the front door and so would have known if anyone had been round. and even if they did they neglected to leave any sort of letter or notification. He left a notice today that he would be stealing my property from me tomorrow if i didnt call him within 24 hours and has been unreachable by phone ever since.

Rushmoor borough council have asked me to ask him to return the acount to them as they were unaware i was in reciept of income support due to illness ( despite my having told them months ago) but as yet he refuses to answer the number he provided.

Oh and incidentaly a debt which on last contact with the council was 1200 quid is now over 2000.

i am shaking with anger at the high handed manner in which this person treated a scared woman in her home.

anyone got any advice? how did alex do with her complaint? whom should i ask to appologise to my mum for the distress caused? I'm not disputing that i owe the money, i made an offer of how much i could repay per

month to the council but they rejected it and the guy (who incidentaly now manages RBC's dept of collections) laughed and said id have to come up with more and then hung up on me.

[chris600uk]

Ihe popped round this morning and made my mother cry on her own doorstep and then was just plain vexatious to me, unwilling to discuss anything other than how he was going to take things away and to deny that he was the first baliff to call about this matter claiming that someone had been round the 23rd of january (last monday). a day i spent watching tv with my mum not ten feet from the front door and so would have known if anyone had been round. and even if they did they neglected to leave any sort of letter or notification.

 

Then you should write to them asking for evidence of that visit because you know nobody called.

[chris600uk]

He left a notice today that he would be stealing my property from me tomorrow if i didnt call him within 24 hours and has been unreachable by phone ever since.

 

Stop phoning him, from now on communicate only by email/post.

 

refuse to talk to him, and ignore him if he calls, pretend you aren't in, don't give him any feedback.

[chris600uk]

Rushmoor borough council have asked me to ask him to return the acount to them as they were unaware i was in reciept of income support due to illness ( despite my having told them months ago) but as yet he refuses to answer the number he provided.

 

Do it by email/post

[chris600uk]

Oh and incidentaly a debt which on last contact with the council was 1200 quid is now over 2000.

 

Now that is naughty!

 

It rather sounds like excessive charging, because he is only entitled to charge a maximum of £42.50 for the first two visits he makes without levying upon anything.

 

Excessive charging is a ground for a form 4 complaint although I suspect that if you put it all in writing to the bailiffs office and the council it'll all get sorted out fairly quickly.

 

I hope.

[Letdownbybanks]

OK small update.

Mr Leader (of the pack..??? gary glitter in drag maybe) finally phoned me back and i asked him to refer the account back to the council as they had said they were unaware of my being on income support and wished to review the case further. he grudgingly agreed to do this tomorow but only after i had given him my NI number, i asked why he needed it and he said so he can check for himself. I refused saying that it was private information and if he wanted it he would have to get a court order. He said he would be checking with the council first thing tomorrow and then would be coming round. I told him that there would be no need for him to come round as the council will confirm what i have said to which i got a grunted 'we'll see shall we' I have been reading up on debt enforcment regulations and will not be allowing him entry and i shall be hiding my motorcycle tonight. My sister is a police officer and she has told me that even if he were to turn up with the police backing him up (which shouldn't be necessary as i am not one for fisticuffs) they would only be there to ensure no breach of the peace or assault takes place and would not be able to enforce any attemt by him to gain entry. in fact if he were to try to gain non peaceable entry he would be arrested for trespass.

lets hope he does try it as she wil be here for a coffee all morning.

[chris600uk]

My sister is a police officer and she has told me that even if he were to turn up with the police backing him up (which shouldn't be necessary as i am not one for fisticuffs) they would only be there to ensure no breach of the peace or assault takes place and would not be able to enforce any attemt by him to gain entry.

 

If the police attend when a bailiff is there, to have any hope of the police actually applying the law correctly you MUST inform them that your sister is a copper, otherwise you'll be treated exactly as most other people are.

Usually the police look the other way when bailiffs mistreat debtors, and sometimes assist the bailiffs.

 

Even if your sister is present herself, since Margaret Thatcher's brave new world came into being, any police officer is trained to follow the directions of the supervising Inspector on duty in the control room - no matter how stupid or incorrect those directions may appear to be, there may be other reasons (good or bad) why instructions are given.

 

Do not rely upon the Police - although the ACPO guidelines on how to act when attending bailiff debtor situations are fine in theory, most police officers have never read them, probably don't know they exist, and even if they did couldn't be bothered to read them anyway.

They appear to have been taken off the police website...you can only wonder why that would be.

 

Don't be complacent, the bailiffs act as they do because people in the council derive benefit from their actions, and the council tax pays for the police........get it?

 

You can't now say you weren't warned.....SO DON'T OPEN THE DOOR

Edited March 3, 2009 by chris600uk
fairness.

[chris600uk]

if he were to try to gain non peaceable entry he would be arrested for trespass.

 

I'm afraid that's not going to happen either.

 

I'm not having a go at you, but it's important that anyone reading this thread doesn't misunderstand the reality of dealing with bailiffs.

 

It is not possible for a bailiff to be arrested for trespass if a liability order has been granted and the debtor still lives at the property on the liability order.

 

Whether entry is peaceful or not is DEBATABLE.

 

As always the problem is it's one persons word against another, and the bailiff has the upper hand.

 

That's why you have to take precautions, keeping doors and windows locked, and ignoring the bailiff when he/she turns up, pretending you are not in may sound and feel cowardly but it is the most sensible course of action and the most successful course of action for a debtor.