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Black Horse Car Finance (BH)


BubbleCat
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Hi All,

 

I'm so happy to have found this site and look forward to corresponding with everyone.

 

Please, Please can someone help me with the following.

 

We Purchased a car in Aug 2005 from Bushbury Land Rover, Wolverhampton - Reg Vardy, (now Stratstone - Pendragaon) on what we were told was a PCP agreement. We'd never heard of this before.

 

How this was explained to us by the salesperson was:

The car has to be "realistically" valued for sale.

This reduces the monthly instalments

leaving a balloon payment at the end and we could either further finance the car for the balloon payment and keep it OR hand the car back with no further obligation.

 

We did query the faxed copy before signing, as it said HP agreement at the top and was a very bad copy. The salesperson assured us it was a PCP agreement and pointed to the small box saying this is what made it a PCP and we would see this when the paperwork from BH arrived.

 

Being what we thought was a reputable dealer, we accepted what we were told.

 

About 12 months later due to mobility problems, the car was not suitable and going unused.

 

We looked for a suitable car and in the meantime asked for a settlement figure from BH. When it came we nearly had heart attack!:shock:

This then opened a big can of worms and started the start of my letters.

 

There was no pre-contractual information provided or discussed what-so-ever. BH and Pendragon verbal defence to this has been it is shown to the customer via computer in the dealership. The only time we were shown a computer was to see what cars were available in their dealership network.

No terms and conditions were included in the information given to us on the day of collection, only a bad copy of the faxed agreement and we never received any other paperwork from BH.

A GAP insurance was sold to us as we were leaving the showroom, is not detailed on the financial agreement.

Between BH and the dealership we have been told the agreement is:

a PCP, then a PLP?, then a HP agreement with a balloon payment which works the same as a PCP? and a HP agreement.

Because of the mobility problems and having to use taxis and pay other people for fuel and still paying for the car, we were finding it hard financially. We stopped paying for the car in April 2007.

BH and the dealership had not responded to any correspondence since October 2007. Then out of the blue in Feb 08, we got a letter from BH to say they were looking into our complaint. In April 08, we had a letter from BH saying it's a HP agreement, they are within their compliance and that's it! :confused:

I have requested a copy of our account notes from BH and they will not respond.

 

Since the 10/11/08, we have received a default notice and advised to pay £30.00 and another letter for a repossession fee of £117.50. Both letters say if we don't pay the sums after 28 days they will accru interest.

 

Does anyone have any ideas on tackling this??

 

 

 

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Guest suziedarkness

Hi Bubblecat and welcome to the site.

 

You will get great advice on here.

 

I am confused about the type of agreement you say you have, I have never heard of it but I am sure plenty on here will have and will be able to advise you accordingly.

 

If its any consolation, I too am battling BH for HP agreement for a car.

 

They have ignored all my letters and another cagger said they had same problem.

 

This is a link to one of my threads, if you read it, it may be of some use

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/163457-black-horse-hire-purchase.html

 

I also have another thread regarding the figures on the agreement, which is looking very likely are incorrect.

 

Its always best to put anything in writing to them wherever possible rather than by phone.

 

Suzie

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Hi Bubblecat – I’m not familiar with this type of agreement either and agree with surprise.

A HP agreement – if that is in fact what it is – is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and as such you can request a copy of the agreement under s79 of the act (I think)

If you haven’t requested a copy then that’s the first thing you need to do. They can’t dodge providing you with this information. There are lots of different templates on the forums so have a look around and use the one you are comfortable with.

I use this one because I like the short and sweet approach –

Dear Sir/Madam

Reference account/agreement number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I believe the above account/agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”)

This is a formal request for information regarding account/agreement xxxxxxxxxx as is my right under sections 77 – 79 of the CCA. I understand that you are obliged to send me the relevant documentation within 12 working days of receiving my request. I enclose a postal order payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the CCA and is not intended for any other purpose.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

Print your name, never sign

Send the letter recorded delivery and check to see when it gets signed for.

When they comply with your request post a copy of it up on your thread and you will get some advice on the enforceability side of things.

Next thing is any default notice that they send you needs to be posted for an opinion also.

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Thank you for finding me - I am getting used to the site as we go.

 

It does not appear to be claim, 1st page says a Notice of Hearing, 2nd a Claim Form with Claimant details, ref no's and defendant details and attached is particulars of claim. Ultimately what they are asking is for the return of the car (which I asked them to do over 12 mths ago), half of the agreement amount and costs for court action. I have been trying with this for nearly 2 years!

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This is a claim brought under CPR PD 7B. The procedure differs from ordinary CPR 7 claims in that for example, there is no requirement to acknowledge service and no default judgments.

 

The first thing to do is post up a copy of the Particulars of Claim and any documents served to accompany, minus any data which might serve to identify you. Sums are useful though. Identify £5,432.67 as just £5xxx.xx if you get my drift.

 

When's the hearing?

 

x20

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Yes there is court stamp on the Claim Form.

 

On the particulars:

 

Claimant name

Defendant name

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

Following default under a Hire Purchase Agreement detailed below the Claimant is entitled to the return of the goods the subject of the Agreement, payment of the arrears, one half of the Total Price and further sums due thereunder.

 

1 Date of Agreement: 00/00/00

2 Parties thereto: Black Horse and it’s Defendant (s)

3 Agreement number: 123456

4 The Agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

5 Place Agreement signed: Reg Vardy PLC W

6 Goods claimed: Vehicle

7 Total Price of Goods : £££

 

8 Paid up sum: £££

9 Balance Outstanding: £££

 

10 Plus Accrued Late Payment Interest and Fees £££

11 Total outstanding from Defendant: £££

 

12 A default notice was served by 2nd class post on 20th September 2008

13 The right to demand delivery accrued on 9th October 2008

14 Amount claimed as alternative to delivery of goods £££

15 Amount claimed in addition to delivery of goods £££

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS:

 

(A) An order for delivery up of the goods as detailed in item 6,

(B) The arrears of instalments and half total Amount payable under the Hire Purchase Agreement (Item 15)

© The costs of this action

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

1 believe that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are tme, I am duly authorised by the Claimant to sign this statement.

 

 

Dated this 4th November 2008

 

 

 

 

Tina Adams, Legal Manager Claimants Solicitor

Sechiari, Clark & Mitchell 116 Cockfosters Road, Bamet

HERTS, EN4 ODY L073 (RI - L07301)

Edited by BubbleCat
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Do you have a copy of the agreement or of the default notice? Were you ever served with a default notice dated 20 September 2008 and since delivery of that default notice, if at all, did you receive, prior to the issue of proceedings, a notice of termination and/or a demand for the return of the vehicle?

 

What is this default notice you speak of dated 10 November 2008? Is that available to view?

 

x20

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I have had the same kind of situation with BH and SCM they stated I owed 9k I have today settled at 5.8k with a letter from them giving me ownership, default on credit account removed and credit file properly cleaned. Court date was 4th Dec, however, it has suited my business needs to settle. I know some people are not as fortunate to be able to settle, but they are open to an offer and I hope this helps.

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when the car was sold to us the only agreement offered for us to sign was a very bad faxed copy of A4 one side and nothing else.

 

I don't recall seeing a default notice only 2 letters saying I owed £30.00 and another for repo of £117.00 !

 

Defo not had anything for court proceedings or termination of agreement

Edited by BubbleCat
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A creditor wishing to invoke Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 87(1) by terminating a HP agreement, recovering possession of goods let on hire under a HP agreement and early payment of monies due under it, has an obligation to serve upon the debtor a default notice compliant with the provisions of section 88. (NB, where it says 7 days in section 88, the period is now 14 days).

 

If he doesn't but terminates and seeks possession of the goods, he gifts a defence to the debtor for everything claimed apart from the instalment arrears owing at the date of termination. Treat that date as 9 October 2008.

 

I recommend a Defence be filed in this case in which you assert a DN was never served. However, before committing yourself, I suggest you obtain copies of documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim by writing this letter:

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached. In addition to providing me with a copy of this document, please explain to me why you regarded yourself as exempt from this obligation?

 

2 the default notice

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation to recover and preserve such versions which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make application to the court on 2 January 2009 for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

x20

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Hi

 

Just opened a letter from Sechari, Clark & Mitchell. What a cheek with there sarcastic tone. I have been trying to get them to acknowledge their errors for nearly 2 years and although they have sent the letter, they have again not enclosed a copy of the agreement or statement of account!! :evil::evil::evil:

 

21 November 2008

 

Dear

 

Agreement

 

We refer to the above and acknowledge your recent letter of 15 November 2008, contents of which have been noted.

 

We write to confirm that after looking through our records, we are unable to locate your letter of the 14th of April 2008 and as a result you would not have received a copy of your agreement.

 

Please now find enclosed a copy of the agreement and statement of account as per your request. If you are unhappy with the action being taken then we suggest you respond to the claim accordingly.

 

Would it harm my case if I were to reply back in such a sarcastic and arrogant manner ??

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This is a claim brought under CPR PD 7B. The procedure differs from ordinary CPR 7 claims in that for example, there is no requirement to acknowledge service and no default judgments.

 

 

Hi X20,

 

Thank you for your valued help.

 

Do you mind me asking about the part in bold above? What does this actually mean?

 

Cheers BC

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'there is no requirement to acknowledge service and no default judgments'

 

The usual procedure for claims is that if the Defendant intends to defend the claim he is required to acknowledge service of the claim form by returning to the court the form entitled Acknowledgement of Service within 14 days and indicating on the form that he intends to contest the proceedings. Where the Defendant fails to return the form the claimant is entitled to apply to the court for judgment on his claim in default of acknowledgment of serivce.

 

The words in bold are to inform you that the usual procedure is not followed in a case like yours and which attracts the procedure set out in CPR PD 7B. That procedure is set out at paragrah 5 of PD 7B and says:

 

The Consumer Credit Act procedure

 

5.1 In the types of claim to which paragraph 3 applies the court will fix a hearing date on the issue of the claim form.

 

5.2 The particulars of claim must be served with the claim form.

 

5.3 Where a claimant is using the Consumer Credit Act procedure, the defendant to the claim is not required to:

(1) serve an acknowledgment of service, or

(2) file a defence, although he may choose to do so.

 

5.4 Where a defendant intends to defend a claim, his defence should be filed within 14 days of service of the particulars of claim. If the defendant fails to file a defence within this period, but later relies on it, the court may take such a failure into account as a factor when deciding what order to make about costs.

 

5.5 Part 12 (default judgment) does not apply where the claimant is using the Consumer Credit Act procedure.

 

5.6 Each party must be given at least 28 days’ notice of the hearing date.

 

5.7 Where the claimant serves the claim form, he must serve notice of the hearing date at the same time, unless the hearing date is specified in the claim form

 

x20

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please hang in there with me while I try and get my head around this.

 

So this is a way of BH hoping I will not file a defence and get an judgement in their favour?

 

So I need to get my defence in within 14 days from 20/11, which is the date on the Notice of Hearing?

 

As BH have only detailed Particulars of Claim, but no support of the Claim to the court, can I ask for more time to gather the info or for the action to be stayed? as BH have failed to send the requested info as in #21 of this thread?

Edited by BubbleCat
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