Lowell Finance and my Battles

[sweetcandy]

Lowell bought my cc debt from capital one, the total sum amounted to £400; £260 of the debt is ppi, late payment and over limit charges.

I sent them a cca and received a non readable agreement form signed by me.

The option box on the form to agree to ppi was not “ticked” and no ppi agreement was supplied by Lowell, even though ppi is part of the charges on this debt.

My question is ….

1)Now I have received the agreement form, can I claim for the over limit, late payment charges and ppi charges.

2)Should I request for a signed ppi agreement form?

3)If they cannot provide a signed ppi form whereas I’ve been charged ppi does this invalidate their claim?

Edited November 15, 2008 by sweetcandy

[sweetcandy]

bump, any help on this please.

[ScabHunter]

The first step is to establish whether or not the agreement is even enforceable.

 

Have you got access to a scanner?

 

If you have, upload it to photobucket and let us see.

 

If it is an old Crap One card the agreement is unlikely to be enforceable.

 

SH

[sweetcandy]

they sent me a photocopy which is not readable, i will get to scan it and see if i can upload an enlarged copy.

[fuzzybobble]

Being unreadable is in itself enough to render the agreement enforceable.

 

This was the case for me with a BOS loan agreement. It was mostly unreadable and a poor microfiche copy with no terms and conditions. They went very quiet over a year ago when I pointed this out to them. I've heard nothing since then.

[sweetcandy]

this is the agreement they sentImage of cap one - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

also no ppi agreement sent but i was being charged for it.

Should i write them and request a readable copy and a copy of ppi agreement?

Edited November 16, 2008 by sweetcandy

[Josie8]

can't make the small print on right hand side out but the PPI definitely not ticked. You can reclaim the PPI and charges. If you can post a better copy or provide the text of the small print I'll be able to help on the unenforceability

[fuzzybobble]

looks to me like a typical mailer application to me.

It does mention the interest rates in the box just above the signature bit, that starts off "I'm applying....." lol.

 

But I cannot see anything that mentions repayments or credit limits, so it's therefore possibly unenforceable. If you could confirm it, or get a more detailed scan of that text, then it would be useful to determine 100% if it's unenforceable or not.

[IdaInFife]

Dear Sirs,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

My request remains outstanding. An applicatiom form with no prescribed terms on it, like the one you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. An application form neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

You had until xx/xx.2008 (12+2 working days after the request was made) to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 + 2 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation.

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

I expect you to write to me confimring that the account has been closed and no further action will be taken.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

 

 

I can't see all the prescribed terms

 

Ida x

[sweetcandy]

Below is a scanned PDF copy of the form, it can be enlarged in adobe acrobat.

scan0001.pdf

[fuzzybobble]

Yep, it's unenforceable for the following reasons.....

 

Just above their signature box it states, "I am applying for 4 cards with the following interest rates...." It should state the actual rate for the card the agreement is for. So for to them to state four different rates is a big no, no.

 

Also they mention terms and conditions, but they have not been included with your agreements, and should be the ones that were from 2004 and no other year.

 

There is no mention of how often payments should be made and the amount of the repayments should be.

 

What you have is an application form and nothing more.

Welcome to the unenforceable CCA club.

 

It's time to break the bad news to Lowell.

[sweetcandy]

Thanks fuzzybobble, you ve put a smile on my face tonight lol, which template letter do i need to send to them now?

[twofoot]

It also refers to 'use of information' in section 23 overleaf.

[fuzzybobble]

Thanks fuzzybobble, you ve put a smile on my face tonight lol, which template letter do i need to send to them now?

 

This letter usually does the trick for me....

amend the xx and bits in red to suit.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Account number xxxxxx I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/2008, the contents of which have been noted.

 

I'm afraid to inform you that you have totally failed to respond to my request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

As you will be fully aware an application form that doesn't contain the perscribed terms and conditions (Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974.) and is such unenforceable in a court of law. The document you provided is an application form, and not a properly executed credit agreement. Also the so called terms and conditions referred to in the application form are also missing.

 

On xx/xx/2008 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on xx/xx/2008 (12 working days from date CCA sent)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation.

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days you commit a summary criminal offence.

These limits have expired.

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

And

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

Hilight anything in bold and red text as they like to do.

Keep copies of everything, don't sign the letter, print your name.

If they go quiet for a few weeks after they recieve this letter, or send it to another DCA, don't be at all surprised.

[fuzzybobble]

You'll have to edit the letter a bit, as this forum doesn't seem to like stuff pasted from MS Word documents. For some reason it likes to include the font formatting.

 

If you copy and paste the text into your own word processor and edit the text before printing it out, then you should be ok.

 

Any problems shout for help on here.

[ScabHunter]

fuzzy,

 

Try pasting the letters into Notepad or Wordpad, and then copy and paste them from there.

 

That gets rid of the formatting.

 

SH

[Josie8]

Below is a scanned PDF copy of the form, it can be enlarged in adobe acrobat.

 

 

Yes unenforceable

[sweetcandy]

Thanks fuzzy, i will have to wait a couple of days more for the 12 working days to be up before sending this letter lol,.

they sent me the application form within a week of my seding CCA to them.

[fuzzybobble]

No problem. Happy to help.

 

If you have a spare 8 hours and some cling film to protect your computer from spilt drinks due to laughter, etc...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/131409-cheekiness-towards-dca.html

 

Read this thread. (one of the most popular threads on this forum.) It was started earlier this year by Mr.Ton and has loads of advice on how to deal with DCA's. Shows the lows and highs and the lives of real people who make a stand against the Debt collection industry. It will make you laugh and realise that DCA's are nothing to be scared of. Plus later on there a few links to some recent funny videos and songs CAG members have contributed to. A year from now, it will be the biggest thread on the whole site.

[sweetcandy]

FUZZY, your letter did the magic, since i sent it to lowell i ve not heard any response from them, whereas before they were threatning court action:smile:

[fuzzybobble]

When they find out you're aware of your legal rights and they know, you know the CCA is unenforceable, then they usually go quiet.

 

They may pass it onto another DCA, but we have a letter template for that too.

[bazaar]

Also, they may well be too busy on youtube looking at FB's exploits:D

[fuzzybobble]

Also, they may well be too busy on youtube looking at FB's exploits:D

 

The 1st Credit gang are the next to appear on Youtube. Not the threat centre staff this time. But the ones supposedly in charge. Also known here as Uncle Bob and Uncle Charles.

[sweetcandy]

Lowell are back again, after sending them the letter on POST 14 ABOVE, they replied today sening me the attached T&C below with the PDF doc in POST 10.

This is well beyond 12 working days and 30 days from the date. any one had same experience???

what should be my next line of action.

scan0001.pdf

[bazaar]

Well thats nice of them to send you some t&c's IF you ever wanted to have an agreement with them.

But it doesnt comply with your request.. The account is now in dispute, you need to make sure you inform them so.

Ask for their complaints procedure, then complain. You can then put in a compaint to FOS etc.

Now that youve exhausted the CCA route, you may wish to get them to comply with a CPR request for sight of the original agreement..

So, what are you waiting for?