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Ok thanks I understand that, but Fred wasn't invited to respond to their app to amend their POC. It was just accepted.

I can see how they're going to struggle to have anything useful to say though.:D

 

That's because at the time that application was made the Judge believed both parties were acting honestly, truthfully and within the spirit of CPR.

One can only guess what has occurred since then to give the Judge doubts about the merits of one parties case.:eek::eek:

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Did Fred submit anything in those applications which was not 100% true and backed up with evidence???

 

The wording of the order also implies that the Judge has seen matters of real concern in Freds amended defence, he has ordered written response to all four apps not just the variation and enforcement ones.

Take that as a very large positive.

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If you don't mind a little investigation, humiliation, and if you cross your fingers rehabilitation..............

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Did Fred submit anything in those applications which was not 100% true and backed up with evidence???

Nope every last word is backed up by proof.:D

 

It's astounding to me that this miniscule bundle of the claimant's compounds their doom by repeating some of the false allegations we've already laid to rest.

It would appear that their left hand doesn't know what their right hand is doing.

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Did Fred submit anything in those applications which was not 100% true and backed up with evidence???

 

The wording of the order also implies that the Judge has seen matters of real concern in Freds amended defence, he has ordered written response to all four apps not just the variation and enforcement ones.

Take that as a very large positive.

 

 

I may be the uninvited Devil's advocate in this thread, but even I see this as being very positive. Clearly Fred's case isn't just being ignored, but taken more seriously. I hope.

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I may be the uninvited Devil's advocate in this thread, but even I see this as being very positive. Clearly Fred's case isn't just being ignored, but taken more seriously. I hope.

You're never univited AT.:D

To hear you saying this is a positive step is most encouraging, because you certainly bring a very objective eye to our deliberations.

I can tell you also, that we now have an appointment at Devon and Cornwall Police Headquarters this coming Thursday afternoon. We're taking our not inconsiderable stack of evidence with us.:-D

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We have quite a few guests today. They may need cheering up. Can anyone thing of anything encouraging to say to them?;)

 

The death penalty was abolished some years ago!

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'Can anyone thing of anything encouraging to say to them?'

 

How about; I have noticed that the Western Morning News and the West Briton seem to be carrying more 'Situations Vacant' advertisments in the last few issues - 'Cattle Herdsmen (Holiday Cover only)' might appeal!

 

Don't worry folks, you don't normally need a CRB check to work with animals.

 

:D:D:D

Edited by Helford
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I may be the uninvited Devil's advocate in this thread, but even I see this as being very positive. Clearly Fred's case isn't just being ignored, but taken more seriously. I hope.

 

In all fairness to the Court they only became aware of the issues very recently and this order is their first correspondence on the matter so it would be wrong to say Fred was being ignored prior to this as he just hadn't made representation of the facts until 6th August.

 

Having given them enough rope to hang the whole sorry bunch Fred simply decided enough was enough and snapped it taut.

 

It's also possible as a result of Freds apps, the Judge revisited the hearing of July 1st and realised that the claimant had pulled a bit of a fast one on the Court as well.

 

I just don't know how Lyons-Davidson can possibly respond to this order. They've already admitted holding no records, the hearing of July was recorded, the rest is well documented and all in Freds favour. I'm not even convinced the Judge would permit them to discontinue in the circumstances such is the gravity of their behaviour.

Edited by Toulose LeDebt

You have the right to food money.

If you don't mind a little investigation, humiliation, and if you cross your fingers rehabilitation..............

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I'm not even convinced the Judge would permit them to discontinue in the circumstances such is the gravity of their behaviour.

They are in a spot then for sure.

If the hearing goes ahead under the circumstances, it will be a most interesting event. Wonder how many seats there are for spectators?

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I've been following the case for a couple of months and it's been very interesting through out.

 

I'd love to be in the court room in september, just to see the kodak moment of the poor claiment person (well not really) realising that representing the PCAD is suicide lol!

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What's really funny here Patma is that the claimant was served a copy of the applications and the supporting documentation as per the CPR requirements and has been ordered to explain themselves on the basis of that bundle. What they don't know is what was contained in the significantly thicker bundle of documents that was supplied to the Court a week or two earlier. Since those docs were not filed as part of the proceedings per se then Fred was under no obligation to serve a copy upon the claimant.

But we know that fridays Judge had those documents as well as the formal application documents which puts the claimant in a very precarious position if they're going to try and blag their way out because the Judge knows a lot more background than is actually revealed in the docs of the 6th August and they are now in a position where they cannot possibly know just exactly what the Judge does know about their claims.

They will have to be very careful indeed in their reply because the Judge already has many of the answers and I suspect is just as much seeking confirmation from the claimant as an explanation and any anomalies in their reply to this order will be spotted a country mile off now.:p

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If you don't mind a little investigation, humiliation, and if you cross your fingers rehabilitation..............

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Very true, TLD

Those 13 separate documents, each one signed with a statement of truth, simply because they are nothing but the unvarnished truth, backed up by solid proof, stand alone if necessary.

You created a devastating blow to the claimant's case by writing those and the court manager, quite properly passed them onto the judge alongside the applications.:cool:

When the time is right, they should be posted for everyone to see how blooming good they were.

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Pat & TLD

 

interesting document by HSE on these barriers, in that they must be secure when down etc , well worth a read

 

and not as seen in the famous video clip

 

Advice on horizontal swing car park barriers

NEVER FORGET

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Help Our Hero's Website

 

http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/

 

HIGHWAY OF HEROES

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/181826-last-tribute-our-lads.html

 

Like Cooking ? check the Halogen Cooker thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/218990-cooking-halogen-cookers.html

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That's why they were submitted to the Court manager and not as part of a formal application. Currently you know and I know whats in them but PCAD and their representatives don't because there was never any obligation to serve a copy upon them in those circumstances.

 

But with them having been supplied to the Court manager the Judge simply would not have been doing his job properly if he had not taken a look through them before reaching a decision on the formal applications submitted a couple of weeks later.

 

So by order of the Court the claimant has to respond to the formal applications knowing (by virtue of monitoring this thread) that the Court has a very comprehensive bundle of evidence in the matter (the content of which is unknown to the claimant) and is quite possibly now just sitting and waiting for the claimant to hang themselves. Nice.

Edited by Toulose LeDebt

You have the right to food money.

If you don't mind a little investigation, humiliation, and if you cross your fingers rehabilitation..............

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Hi Kiptower, I don't wish to 'take the wind out of your sails', but this article was published after a few horrific incidents with swinging horizontal barriers that had not been secured, rather than vertically lifting barriers such as that at PCAD car park. Notwithstanding, it just goes to show the sort of grief any non maintained and non -

supervised barrier presents.

 

The main incident leading to this HSE report being published is here:

 

BBC NEWS | Wales | Unlawful killing in barrier death

Edited by Helford
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no problem it was the point of barriers secured when down etc i was making , and non maintained, unlike the one in the video of Freds

NEVER FORGET

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Help Our Hero's Website

 

http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/

 

HIGHWAY OF HEROES

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/181826-last-tribute-our-lads.html

 

Like Cooking ? check the Halogen Cooker thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/218990-cooking-halogen-cookers.html

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An interesting and possibly on topic comment was made yesterday by the Magistrates Association in a press release opposing the proposal for careless driving to become a fixed penallty offence.

 

'Regrettably, recent experience with out-of-court disposals shows that the police cannot be relied on to use them appropriately or as intended. Once they have been given these powers, the police will misuse them, that is a certainty'

You have the right to food money.

If you don't mind a little investigation, humiliation, and if you cross your fingers rehabilitation..............

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That sounds pretty fair comment, TLD, in view of Fred's experiences.

The BMW returned today btw, this time with 2 people in it, a man and a woman. Partial number plate obtained.;)

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I would get Fred to go out and pointedly take photos of the car. I'm sure the judge wouldnt take to kindly to intimidation either.

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That sounds pretty fair comment, TLD, in view of Fred's experiences.

The BMW returned today btw, this time with 2 people in it, a man and a woman. Partial number plate obtained.;)

 

 

That is shocking. I do hope that Fred will be handing over the details of the vehicle and the incidents along with any identifying number to the police whilst he's at HQ tomorrow. They're clearly up to no good whoever they are and there's no guarantee it is who we think it is so it might be a good idea if the police were made aware of such suspicious behaviour.

If it is somebody following this thread then they already know that Fred will be out tomorrow afternoon over at Police HQ in Exeter so they would know that they'd have several hours in which to burgle his house.

You have the right to food money.

If you don't mind a little investigation, humiliation, and if you cross your fingers rehabilitation..............

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Good point, TLD. I'll see that it's mentioned to the police.

 

Of course if it does transpire that it's the Plymouth branch of Lyons Davidson doing a little extra curricular research then stick that complaint in the pile for the SRA.

You have the right to food money.

If you don't mind a little investigation, humiliation, and if you cross your fingers rehabilitation..............

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