NNDR, Ltd Co. & Personal Possessions

[FunkyFox]

Hi

 

Hope someone can help. A quick question..

 

What is the position regarding a liabilty for NNDR on a Ltd Co. (which is shortly to be voluntarliy struck off) and Bailiffs coming to your home to seize personal possessions, not in anyway related to the company?

 

If the home has nothing to do with the company (other than the home of directors and shareholders) or the premises on which the charge is made and the company has no assets can they look to take personal possesions.

 

I think not but I can't find anywhere that says so!

 

Your help is greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks, FF

[Guest BURP]

If the Ltd cannot meets its NNDR liability then a bailiff should return the case back to the council unpaid. Its upto the council to lodge its interest in the company with the Official Receiver. A bailiff cannot levy on the personal goods of a director at their home (without a court order - v.rare) so never open the door to unexpected callers. The debt forums can advise more on winding up (struck off?) a Ltd co. If a bailiff calls at a directors home address for a company debt then he should contact police.

[FunkyFox]

If the Ltd cannot meets its NNDR liability then a bailiff should return the case back to the council unpaid. Its upto the council to lodge its interest in the company with the Official Receiver. A bailiff cannot levy on the personal goods of a director at their home (without a court order - v.rare) so never open the door to unexpected callers. The debt forums can advise more on winding up (struck off?) a Ltd co. If a bailiff calls at a directors home address for a company debt then he should contact police.

 

Thanks so much for the prompt reply. Just as I thought although I couldn't find anything that could confirm this by way of legislation etc.

 

Cheers, FF

[Guest BURP]

Section 3(1) of the Companies Act 2006 and further reading: The Non-Domestic Rating (Collection and Enforcement) (Amendment and Miscellaneous Provision) Regulations 1993

[FunkyFox]

Well now, the council agreed to remove my personal address from their system and the baliffs have sent me another letter via my accountant which stated that they have returned the file to the council who 'may seek to file for bancruptcy or issue a warrant for my immediate arrest!'

 

All I can say is if the government are going to start imprisioning every director of every struggling or insolvent company that owe a few hundred £'s in NNDR then they better start building some more prisons!

 

My wife was beside herself reading that. Can they do this and do I have grounds to complain about the use of such threats!

 

It's looking like me that the COuncils are less regulated and worse behaved than half of the DCA's:mad:

 

Your advice, to put my (and my wife, who thinks she is going to spend xmas with me in clink!) mind at rest is most welcome.

 

Thanks, FF

[kitchenboy]

Hi FF

 

Sorry to hear about your stresses, hopefully my experiences will help to ease your mind a bit.

 

Basically I am in the same boat as you, ltd co. insolvent and was being chased personally by bailiffs for unpaid NNDR. I was being hassled at home to pay the debt and the council refused to accept a repayment plan proposal which I had put forward, so even though they knew the company could not meet it's liabilities they still refused to negotiate with me personally and were only interested in sending the baliffs, It was at this point that I made sure that there was and always is a signed statutory decleration by my front door. Anyway to cut a long story short as soon as the council received a copy of form 652a the bailiffs sent an email confirming that they were taking no further action against the company or myself, and I have not heard a peep from the council since march.

 

As an application for strike off can only be made once the company has ceased trading for at least 3 months prior to date of application, the council might still hassle you until they receive a copy. It is extremly important that a signed copy of the application for strike off is sent to all the companies creditors within 7 days of being delivered at companies house, this is a legal responsibility of the director/s and faliure to do so could cause you a major headache.

 

It looks like the baliffs have sent a bog standard threat-o-gram, your company is liable to the council not you, the only way you could be liable is if you personally garaunteed the debt or the council proceed to wind up the company and then the OR believes that there was wrongfull trading or supicious circumstances, and states this in their report to the DTI, even then the DTI have to believe that it is in the best interest of the people that you be prosecuted and only by order of the court would you be liable for the companies debt.

 

I don't think even the council will be willing to spend upwards of £1500 and all the hastle to wind you up for a debt of a few hundred pounds on the off chance that they want to try and prove that you might have been doing something dodgy. Even the inland revenue will think twice about having to wind up a non trading company unless they were absolutely positive that the company has assets.

 

If you have a copy of your 652a form send it to them asap otherwise inform them that the company has insufficient funds or assets to enter into formal liquidation and will be making an application to be struck off and then invite them to wind you up. It should help get them off your back.

 

Hope this helps, good luck.

[FunkyFox]

Hi Kitchen Boy thanks so much for such a comprehensive reply. It has really helped to ease my mind. I will look at the 652a form tomorrow, I have been putting it off for a while as the 3 months is only just up.

 

I assume I have to give a copy to everyone, including those that are owed just a few £'s like BT and who have long since given up the chase.

 

Thanks again for your time and help.

 

FF

[tomtubby]

Please let me try to reassure you.

 

If a bailiff is unable to seize goods to secure the debt or collect the sum due then he MUST RETURN the debt back to the council as NULLA BONO. This means "nil effects".

 

The bailiff himself will NOT be able to get any fees for NULLA BONO cases although the BAILIFF COMPANY do receive an admin fee from the council. Typically this is around £15-£20.

 

For the above reason, the bailiff does NOT like NULLA BONO cases. And this is why the bailiff will leave you with this letter. Our office have seen hundreds of these same letters!!!

 

Just remember......last year 4 MILLION Liability Orders were granted against individuals and business for unpaid council tax. If everyone who was unable to pay was sent to prison there would have to be many prisons built !!

[kitchenboy]

Hi FF

 

Glad I was able to help, you may want to offer the smaller creditors a few pounds as full and final settlement for their outstanding debts, I did it as a personal gesture of goodwill and as something completely separate from the ltd co. Just make sure that they know that it is a personal payment on behalf of the company and that you are in no way obligated to do so, I think that it will show you in good light should the company be forcefully wound up.

 

The smaller creditors seemed happy to accept this and I was able to draw a line under those. I am only left with hmce and a gas company. I try to make what ever payments I can afford to them each month even if it is only a couple of pounds.

 

Just bear in mind that if the company has outstanding liabilities to the crown they will as a matter of course object to your application for a strike off, because of the hassle involved to reinstate the company to the registrar in order that they can commence action. However once the application is received at companies house they will automatically keep updating their records every 3-6 months and hmce need to keep objecting to strike off because if they don't your company will be removed next time companies house update their records. This is position my company is in just hanging in limbo.

 

From what I understand of the strike off procedure the company dosen't die as in formal liquidation it only ceases to function, I suppose more like being in a coma, but any creditor can apply to have the company reinstated onto the registrar within 20 years of the date of dissolution. If they want to take action thereby making it live.

 

The thing is its the little creditors who are the ones who hound relentlesly and use the dca's so it might be worth just getting them off your back but only under your terms. You will feel a lot better.

 

In answer to your question, yes you need to send a copy to all creditors even if the company owes them a few pounds, and don't worry about the form it is pretty painless.