HSBC - Ever Increasing Overdraft

[slick132]

I've squinted through the "credit agreement" but couldn't see mention of :-

 

* The APR

 

* The credit limit or how this will be determined

 

* Manner in which monthly payments are to be made.

 

Please check through for these Prescribed Terms in conjunction with the Credit Agreement Guide at Link No5 in my signature.

[thesecret]

Thankyou

[thesecret]

Hi Slick

I have now received a load of paperwork relating to my credit card

Still the same application and t and c's as such im assuming this is unenforceable.

I will get them uploaded for tomoorow afternoon, if you could take a look once ive uploaded the letters it would be much appreciated

Thanks

TS

[slick132]

Hi Secret,

 

A lot has changed over the last year about a/c enforceablility, how a bank can respond to a CCA request, etc.

 

You could start reading here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/entry.php?230-Negotiate-a-Settlement-or-Fight-in-Court

 

You may no longer be able to assert that an a/c is in dispute simply because the bank hasn't sent you the actual credit agreement.

 

8)

[thesecret]

I have negotiated a payment plan, avoiding the court process, however the DCA is still attempting to get me to sign a consent order entering judgement against me? should i allow this?

[slick132]

Hi TS,

 

Can you confirm the wording of what they want you to sign.

 

8-)

[thesecret]

I, ************** the defendant in this action, having considered the letter dated 8 March 2011 from DG Solicitors, agree to withdraw my defence.

I understand that upon receipt of this letter:

 

1. DG will not apply for summary judgement against me and therefore their additional costs in relation to this will not be added to the debt

2. The court will enter judgement against me for the sum of £4312.23 claimed on the statement of the case plus the costs payable by instalments of £10 per month

 

Signed ***********

Defendant

Date

 

 

I am unsure as to whether I want to commit to this, due to a PPI issue I have in relation to this figure. It is for a HSBC credit card with monthly PPI on. Yout thoughts pls Slick

 

Thanks

 

TS

[slick132]

Hi TS,

 

While the matter was Stayed, you should have been working on how much to reclaim for penalties and for PPI. You should get on with this immediately.

 

You need to seek clarification about what "costs" they want when they say ".....the sum of £4312.23 claimed on the statement of the case plus the costs......". If they are referring just to the court costs, that is fine. If they are referring to any of their own costs in addition to the fees relating to preparation of the claim, that's a different matter.

 

Get all the penalty charges onto a spreadsheet to claim compound interest in restitution on them. This should work - http://www.shweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/interestcalcs.xls

 

When you originally defended, did you mention penalty charges and PPI possibly reducing the amount you owed.

 

Moving this to Legal Issues forum for further input, I hope.

[the_shadow]

As Slick has suggested you DO need to see how much the "costs" are and these need to be entered on the consent order to ensure you know whats being commited to.

 

Also a word of wording... if you own property there is nothing in the order stopping them applying for a charging order after you sign it, a judge will likely secure the debt against a property if the debt is large compared to the amount you are repaying each month. Likewise they can apply for a redetermination whenever they wish also. Personally I'd ask for a clause stating the repayments would be fixed for 6 or 12 months when it would be reviewed with an I&E and if no material change in circumstances then no increase in repayments.

 

S.

[thesecret]

The costs are for putting the case into court so are minimal

I have completed the spreadsheet and have calculated 1291.63 as monies i can claim back

Penalty charges were mentioned on correspondence but not PPI if that makes any difference.

 

Should i put these charges too them with my own consent order for the initial claim less the calculated PPI?

 

I will draft my own consent order with amendments as per The Shadow

[slick132]

Hi TS,

 

So, your penalty charges and compound interest as per the spreadsheet come to £1,291.63, which should be deducted from the a/c balance. You should update the spreadsheet to give a current figure (re updated interest) to present to the sol'rs.

 

Do you also now have figures for what you want to reclaim for PPI and can you quantify this total, including interest.

 

It is clear that the documents they have produced do not constitute a properly executed credit agreement. You should therefore consider carefully if you want to challenge this further, possibly in court. There may be scope to settle at a reduced amount because of their inadequate paperwork.

 

Alternatively you can accept that you owe what they claim and avoid testing this in court. But still have the penalty charges and PPI deducted with interest on each.

 

Perhaps drop them a "holding" letter to say you are trying to finalise the Schedules of Charges for Penalty charges and for PPI and you will contact them within 14 days.

 

Do not be rushed into signing their Consent form.

 

I would be interested to hear what others have to say about the improperly executed credit agreement. We know you can't take them to court to get it declared unenforceable, but do others think there's scope to defend on the basis of their poor paperwork.

 

8-)

[The Lantana]

Right, I'd make a few points here....

 

1) because of the amount being claimed, HSBC will not get costs other than court fees if they win in court - so what is the benefit to you of signing the consent order? zilch! You have nothing to lose in fighting this. By signing the consent you get yourself a ccj - not good.

 

2) because of illegal penalty charges on your account, even if they have an agreement, they won't have issued an effective default notice. This in itself is quite a strong line of defence.

 

3) the agreement posted is too small for me to read properly, are the prescribed terms there?

 

If you do not wish to fight them all the way through court, how about reaching an agreement where they would refund all penalty charges and interest and you agree to a Tomlin order to repay the remainder. If you fail to keep to the terms of the order, they could THEN apply for judgement.

[thesecret]

Thanks thats a fantastic help

Just to clarify the total I have calculated with the spreadsheet is for the PPI (Card Repayment Protection) am i right in doing this as i have confused myself

I do have some late payment charges which are at £12 each so i have not included them (or should I?)

TS

 

[slick132]

Separate Schedules of Charges, one for penalty charges and one for PPI.

 

8-)

[thesecret]

Can you expand on "Tomlin Order"?

 

I have sent a holding letter

 

Thanks

 

TS

[slick132]

Hi TS,

 

From Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomlin_order

 

Have you now got 2 separate schedules for charges and for PPI.

 

8)

[thesecret]

Hi TS,

 

From Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomlin_order

 

Have you now got 2 separate schedules for charges and for PPI.

 

8)

 

yes i do only 2 penalty charges tho.

[slick132]

OK, so I would now send the 2 schedules to the sol'rs saying you require the debt to be reduced by the PPI and Penalty Charges plus interest.

 

I would also point out the bank's failure to supply a properly executed credit agreement as the documents supplied are missing the Prescribed Terms required by CCA 1974. Suggest, for this reason, that you are not willing to withdraw your defence, nor will you agree to a CCJ being made in this matter.

 

Ask them to reconsider the matter with a view to accepting a reduced settlement of £xxxx in respect of the account, payable in monthly instalments of £xx.

 

You can also add that you do not agree to pay any of the court costs because of the failings of the credit agreement.

 

This is just my own view, and you are free to move forward in whatever manner you are happy with. I simply feel the sol'rs are trying to get a CCJ when they do not have a valid credit agreement to justify it.

 

8)

[The Lantana]

That's certainly the approach I would take.

 

Regards

 

The Lantana