TheCobbettSlayer v NatWest ***WON***

[The cobbett slayer]

Like I said, I was just pondering. I am tiring of playing silly buggers with them and I was just thinking out loud about my options.

[muggins73]

I think it is your duty as an upstanding citizen of this fine isle to write to the court to point out abuses of the judiciary system, so that the taxpayer's money is not further squandered by arrogant and overpaid lawyers who seem to think they can by-pass the procedures of the system that ultimately pays them.

 

So there.

 

Here, here

 

A change of tune here Paul.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/42507-cprs-time-delays.html

 

The courts are ultra conservative and always will be. You file for a judgement; they file for a set aside. You obtain a judgement and file for a warrant of execution; they file for a stay of execution.

 

You have to play the long game, civil law is very civilised and breaching an order like this will not mean a great deal, Cobbetts know this which is why they do it with impunity.

 

Exercise patience, do not get emotionally involved and keep playing the game. Nat West have the money, they can afford this, but they can also afford to tie you up in court until you get bored if they so wish - and if it did not go their way and it looked like they might lose, they'd pay up and not feel a thing.

 

Ah, the voice of reason....spoil sport!!!!:D

[natwesttookmymoney]

I'm just pondering a thought.

 

Cobbetts haven't filed Standard Disclosure, in spite of telling the judge in court that they would do so by 19th January.

 

Should I write to the Court manager and ask that the file be placed back before the Judge for review as they are now in breach of the order. That way it will be of the courts own motion if they strike out the defence and I'm not actually making an application, I'm just bringing the breach to the attention of the court.

 

I would write to the Court manager. I may even call beforehand and ask how the judge is likely to react to this failure to comply with their undertaking.

 

While I take the point about stays and set-asides, I think it's becoming increasingly difficult for the banks these days to use that particular weapon - the Courts are increasingly aware of the way they have manipulated the process in the past.

 

Westy

[The cobbett slayer]

I have received Natwests Standard Disclosure, dated yesterday so only 14 days late and basically it tells me nothing.

 

The disclosure states simply

 

1. Pleadings common to both parties

2. Correspondence and documents common to both parties

3. Claimant's bank account statements for loan account ********

 

 

They have also informed me that they are unable to locate the loan agreement on which both the claim and the defence will be based.

 

Not wishing to apply pressure, they state that the last offer will expire by close of business on 6th February (order for actual costs is 10th February) and no further offers will be made.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts to offer on the disclosure, or lack of it?

 

I've also got a court date - 20th March. I've had to make an application to vary the date as I'll be in Egypt!

[fire fox]

Hi Paul

As a novice you know I am no help to you, but a thought just crossed my mind. I used to work for a Financial Institution ( very low down the pecking order) but we had to micro-film every loan application and these were stored on huge film rolls for ever and ever in case they were needed for issues such as yours amongst others. Is this another delay tactic do you think?

[The cobbett slayer]

Hi Paul

As a novice you know I am no help to you,

 

Don't put yourself down Tony - that actually does help as it confirms something that I was thinking.

 

They have said that the onus is on me to plead my case, which is true. That said, without the agreement, they cannot defend my claim as they too have no evidence regarding the nature of the agreement. They must be able to get a copy of the agreement, it was only August 2005.

 

With regards to a delaying tactic, it's pressure as they have to reply to my Part 18 request within the week.

 

Paul

[fire fox]

So glad I helped a bit there. Did you notice my post today re my court date? Im glad i chose to go with the Draft Order for Directions. Judge must have liked it eh ?

[gizmo111]

Interesting - I have PM'd you.

[Mike1106]

Hi Paul,

Your entry on 03/-2/2007 is exactly the same as what has happened to me, Natwets cannot trace my loan agreement and the same with statements. I am writing to the court today to complain about their lack of disclosure and also the lack of respect they have paid to CPR 18. They also inform me that they cannot supply copies of loan agreements prior to the consolidated loan as the account is now closed.

[nualadobson]

I don't know if this will help but if you look at UKAVIATOR #9. It is all about the consumer credit act 1974. From what i can tell if they cannot find the agreement with your signature on it then it is not enforceable. Might be worth checking this out as i am not sure if this is right.

[The cobbett slayer]

Thanks for that Nuala

 

I've been trawling the CCA 1974 (which was amended in 2006 but was current at the time my loan was taken out). I'll have a look at that.

 

Paul

[Guest NATTIE]

paul, i do sometimes pick up threads late but i can confirm we would not have microfiche on loan agreements, but if the loan is current then it would still exist.

[The cobbett slayer]

Nattie - are you saying that Natwest saying they cannot trace the agreement for a loan that is still current is simply not true?

[Guest ian cognito]

I wondered about this when you first posted it - what benefit is there to them in not producing it - unless it says consolidation loan on it? Have you got a copy?

[The cobbett slayer]

Nuala - can you give me a link to the post you are referring to please (copy the url and paste it into the reply box)

[Guest NATTIE]

Paul, yes I am and i guess I should have asked this earlier, where did you sign the loan?

[The cobbett slayer]

I wondered about this when you first posted it - what benefit is there to them in not producing it - unless it says consolidation loan on it? Have you got a copy?

 

I don't have a copy, it must have gone astray somewhere in a house move as I'm normally meticulous about keeping records (I had 4 years of bank statements neatly filed when I started this claim).

 

The previous loan states "Refinance of bank borrowing". I suspect the missing agreement says the same.

[The cobbett slayer]

Paul, yes I am and i guess I should have asked this earlier, where did you sign the loan?

 

Sign the loan? What loan? Neither party has the agreement:wink:

[Guest NATTIE]

the other loan that went missing which i think is the issue, or have I totally missed the point. If it was a consol loan, was it signed via the branch or the loan centre.

[The cobbett slayer]

It was done by post so I signed it at home. The loan was proposed by the Birmingham (I think) lending centre when we reached the stage at which both salaries were only covering the authorised O/D and the charges on top were getting us deeper in it.

[Guest ian cognito]

Try this one http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/31446-no-cca-no-debt.html

[The cobbett slayer]

the other loan that went missing which i think is the issue, or have I totally missed the point. If it was a consol loan, was it signed via the branch or the loan centre.

 

Sorry Nattie - being a bit faecescious tonight. There was a loan in 2004 which mainly took in Mrs Slayers charges before the account became joint. I have a copy of that agreement. It's the loan from Aug 2005 they claim they can't find but it was definitely signed at home.

[Guest NATTIE]

I think a PM is in order on this one as I am not sure i can give info on the thread except, the basic principle of amount of loan and what it was for should be available on the NW computer system, except it would not have the original form or signature on it.

[brenda/bruce]

Paul is of any help.

 

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974 s78 (1) Demand

 

1. I require you to supply me with a true copy of the credit agreement under which this account is conducted. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.78 (1) for running – account credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 cheque (xxxxxx) in payment of the statutory fee.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, under S189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Furthermore you are reminded that under s78 sub section (6) whilst the default continues you are not entitled to enforce the agreement in law

 

 

[The cobbett slayer]

Thanks B&B

 

I can certainly use the stautes quoted in the letter.

 

It confirms my thought that they just cannot fail to produce a copy of the agreement as they are required under the CCA to keep one