National Hunt Credit Card/Bank One now HBOS - eversheds SD

[airtomoreira]

Bump required!

[Von Greenbach]

what happens after I've sent my Account in Dispute letter, assuming no valid CCA arrives this coming week.

Nothing happens, your account is in dispute, and until it is resolved satisfactorily, it will remain that "In dispute"

 

They cannot take any legal action against you.

[ScabHunter]

1) The behaviour of Eversheds would suggest that this alleged debt has indeed been sold on by the original creditor, who has made the honest, long suffering taxpayers responsible for cleaning up the mess left by their irresponsible lending. Their "generous" full and final settlement offers are aimed at getting a quick profit and moving on.

 

2) a) Where do Castle Collections come in to this? This alleged debt can't be with two sets of monkeys at once. If you have been paying Castle, how on earth did Eversheds get involved in this?

 

b) Courts don't give a monkey's about brownie points, only about the law. Either the agreement is enforceable or it isn't. If it is, they will order payments at a level you can afford irrespective of whatever you were paying (or not paying) before. Of course, judges are fallible, and sometimes make "errors", but that is another story.

 

My own view is that paying anything on an alleged debt where no agreement exists is insanity. There is always the possibility that an enforceable agreement will turn up, and the only thing that can change that is the expiry of the six year period to make the alleged debt statute barred. Restarting the clock just keeps you in the bind of uncertainty for longer, for no constructive purpose whatsoever.

 

If you feel you want to pay something back, save your money up until you can offer a final settlement in one go. And make sure if you do that your paperwork is watertight.

 

SH

[airtomoreira]

SH, thanks for your input. The question of Castle Collections puzzles me as well. They are the people who I agreed a monthly payment with back in 2003. I have made this payment every month, and not had any contact from them since (I have moved address since 2003 though). If this alleged debt has been sold to Eversheds, is there not some official assignment letter that should be sent to me (or is that just something I am imagining)?

 

If this is the case, there is presumably even less chance of Eversheds being able to come up with a valid CCA agreement, as the chances no doubt diminish every time a debt is passed from one organ grinder (to feed their monkeys with) to another.

[ScabHunter]

Right. A bit of research on the internet search engines and Wikipedia reveals that Eversheds is a law firm, and not a debt collection agency.

 

Castle Collections is listed on the PayPlan site as being the collection agency linked to the Halifax.

 

Now, it starts to make a bit more sense, but not much!

 

I am intrigued by your post #15, in which you say that the £1 you sent them has been taken off the outstanding balance. So, a letter from a law firm has the balance on it?

 

All of this begs so many questions I could be posting here all night.

 

It seems likely that the account will still be with Castle Collections, and that Eversheds are just a solicitor acting on their behalf. Eversheds is a very large law firm, so it is not one of these cases where the "solicitor" is just the monkey on the next desk with different headed paper.

 

So, technically, the CCA request should probably have gone to Castle. The worrying possibility here is if Eversheds/Castle claim that your CCA request was invalid because it went to a law firm and not the DCA owning the account. It will need people with more experience than me to clarify any possible implications of this.

 

There is always the possiblity of sending another CCA request direct to Castle. As a believer in the "belt and braces" approach, that is probably what I would do. It removes the possibility of you being tripped up on a technicality.

 

Any input from people with more knowledge and/or experience will be very welcome.

 

SH

[airtomoreira]

SH, now you have me confused, and a little concerned. I understand (I think) the gist of what you are saying, but surely the CCA letter covers situations where the company trying to get me to pay is either the OC, or acting on their behalf, or a company to who the debt has been assigned? Surely if it is Eversheds who are the ones who would take legal action, they need to produce a valid agreement if I request one? (In their original letter to me, Eversheds do describe themsleves as "solicitors instructed by our client Halifax / HBOS". Again, I don't know how relevant this is, but even if they are solicitors, surely that doesn't preclude them from being a DCA, and being subject to the same rules as a DCA has to abide by, including the production of an original agreement, if one is requested?)

 

Given that you are not 100% sure on this, I would welcome input from any other CAGgers who can add to this. I have seen various other threads on here mentioning Eversheds, it seems that they are involved in pursuing alleged debts which have been run up with any number of OC's

 

One last thought...when I was having an unproductive conversation with Eversheds on Saturday, the girl mentioned that I would need to get a copy of the original agreement from the original lender. I just took this to be one of their usual fob offs, but if what SH is suggesting is true, could there be an element of truth in this? I am of course more than willing to send a CCA letter to Castle Collections, but would maybe like some other opinions on this first?

[airtomoreira]

Bumping this back to the top, as I'm worried about the doubts raised in the exchange of messages yesterday between myself and another CAGger. Any help from experienced people out there would be greatly welcomed

[42man]

Send the CCA letter to whoever 'owns' the debt now, if Eversheds are the solicitors, then if they issue a court claim, they would have to produce it under the Civil Procedure Rules....

[airtomoreira]

Thanks 42man. I've already CCA'd Eversheds, who as you say are solicitors acting for Halifax. I'm a little confused by your use of the phrase "owns" the debt.......if Eversheds are merely solicitors, they may not do so, so in your opinion do I also need to CCA Castle Collections (with whom I have a long standing arrangement to pay a monthly amount off the alleged debt), or the Halifax / HBOS themselves?

 

I come back to the fundamental point, which I think you are agreeing with in your last reply, that if Eversheds are the ones who are threatening legal action, surely it is up to them to produce a valid agreement, or face the consequences of me challenging this in court should they decide to go that far? Whether they are the OC, a DCA acting on behalf of the OC, solicitors acting on behalf of the OC, or a DCA that has bought the debt at a knockdown price is surely irrelevant?

[Cat Woman]

Hi,

 

From recent dealings with Eversheds, whilst they are a large law firm, they have a debt collection bit of their business and that is who you're dealing with. We never actually got to speak to one of their solicitors until things were at the disclosure stage of the court process (i.e when they rang us to ask for more time to meet the Court's requirements).

 

With regard to your CCA request, I would send copies to both Eversheds and the original creditor (or whoever the debt is now with), then you're covered. However, I was told that everything gets re-directred back to Eversheds anyway - it's just to cover yourself.

 

As I said earlier, they don't go by consumer law at all. They started proceedings against us knowing full well that a copy of the CCA wasn't available (after 12 years). You can't argue on the phone either - they are really arrogant. With our case, their sole intention was to obtain a charging order on our property via the court process. They weren't happy with our monthly payment of £50 at all. We were advised that their clients had probably bought the original debt for peanuts.

 

They discontinued in the end.

[airtomoreira]

Thanks Cat Woman, would you know what the correct address to write to the Halifax would be, now that they have joined forces with Bank of Scotland? I suppose it's either Halifax HO in Halifax (unsurprisingly!), or the B of S which I think is Edinburgh

[maroondevo52]

You should find an address in here...........

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/106783-halifax-bank-scotland-contact.html

 

Or send it to me and I'll deliver it

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[airtomoreira]

Assuming that I do not receive a reply in the next few days to a CCA Letter I sent on 11 Nov, I will be sending an Account In Dispute letter to Eversheds Solicitors, who are acting on behalf of their client Halifax / BOS, in the matter of an alleged debt.

 

It is advised to head the letter "I do not acknowledge any debt to your Company". However, if Eversheds are acting on behalf of their client, I don't owe them anything. Should the heading therefore read something like "I do not acknowledge any debt either to your company, or to your client Halifax / HBOS"?

 

Comments please!

[silverfox1961]

On my letters i put

"I do not acknowledge any debt to your company or to any company you claim to represent"

 

fox

[eastendboy]

I use the same wording as silverfox1961.

[creditcardmug]

On my letters i put

"I do not acknowledge any debt to your company or to any company you claim to represent"

 

fox

 

Agree, i put this on all mine in BOLD at the top

 

You have to be firm with these "people"

[airtomoreira]

Thanks to all for your replies....and it's good to have a concensus of opinion!

[airtomoreira]

Just keeping thread up to date.

 

No response to my CCA letter, which was received by Eversheds on 12th Nov. Still getting the odd letter and phone call, which are being ignored. Account in Dispute Letter therefore being posted tomorrow morning, 1st December. Let them put that in their pipe and smoke it (as my grandfather used to say)

[airtomoreira]

Latest Monkeygram received today from Eversh**s (which has crossed in the post with my Account in Dispute letter)

 

Dear Airtomoreira

 

You have failed to respond to our previous letters and our instructions are now to commence further action.

 

Our previous offer of a significantly reduced settlement figure (chuckles from me) has now been withdrawn and the full balance of £x is now due.

 

We now intend, without further notice, to:

 

Issue Legal proceedings against you - a CCJ would be sought against you and if (my bold type, not theirs) obtained, enforced through the Court if you failed to pay. CCJ's remain on your file, blah blah blah

 

Or (my bold type, not theirs) Instruct a Debt Collection Agent; a Collection Agent would be instructed to visit your home, blah blah blah.

 

You can only avoid these actions by telephoning this office today to agree repayment of the debt.

 

You must not ignore this final notice

 

Yours faithfully

 

A Monkey.

 

_____________________________________________________________

 

Funny how sometimes the smallest words are the most meaningful, as in if the CCJ were enforced (which it wouldn't be if they can't produce the original agreement), but the best one is...we will either go for a CCJ or instruct Billy Goat Gruff Debt Collectors to huff and puff with no effect.

 

Bit like saying we will either cut off your genitalia with a rusty knife, or tickle your genitalia with a feather (but hang on, we don't have any knives, and we're stuck in the middle of a pillow factory.....)

 

I'm wondering if I should just ignore, or draft a suitable reply. Any suggestions (the wittier the better) would be welcome. Think I'll probably send a "do not send a numpty round to the house" letter, just to cover off that situation, does anyone have one to hand they can post up here for me.

 

Muchas Gracias

[maroondevo52]

:lol:

 

There's one here, though it's not very witty, like me

 

 

COMPLAINT

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Your Ref :

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

 

For your information, xxxxxxx are in breach of a legal request for a copy of the alleged Consumer Credit Agreement in relation to the above account (Consumer Credit Act 1974); posted/received on xx/xx/xx.

 

In light of the above, I have grave concerns regarding an unauthorised visit to my home by one of your representatives on xx/xx/xx, whilst this account is in serious fault of a legal request.

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

Should it be your intention to arrange any further “doorstep calls”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

I look forward to your written response to this letter within the next 14 days, together with a copy of you Complaints Procedure or, your confirmation that on this occasion you have made a genuine mistake and your files have been closed. Failure to respond however, will see the matter referred to Trading Standards, The OFT and any other authorities as I see fit and without further notice.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Take out the bit about CCA if it doesn't apply, send recorded and keep copies of everything.

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[ScabHunter]

Try this one -

 

"Darling R. Sole (Manager),

 

I can hardly find the words to express how deeply wounded and hurt I feel after reading your communication of 02/12/2008. The very suggestion that I would fail to respond to your letters wounds me to the quick. Believe me, darling, you have no need to feel as you do. My humble communication may have been wanton and pitiful compared to the fawning and lavish attention you so richly deserve, but it was, however feeble and inadequate, a communication.

 

Yes, I have been thoughtless and insincere, and I humbly beg your forgiveness. Yes, the CCA request I sent you was bland, and meaningless, and lacked the care and loving attention with which it should have been bestowed. I promise you with all the sincerity and love that I possess that if ever make a CCA request to you again, it will arrive adorned with ribbons of every colour of the rainbow, it will be on pink scented notepaper, it will be written in the finest gold calligraphic font, it will be sealed with a sincere kiss, and be accompanied by a bouquet of England's finest red roses.

 

I am truly overcome with regret, remorse and despair at the thought of missing your reduced settlement offer. Please, I implore you to reconsider. Out of the kindness of my heart, I am prepared to offer a greater percentage of the enforceable balance of zero than you were offering to me. In fact, out of the love and longing in my heart, I am prepared to double whatever percentage you demand of me. If you are prepared to accept 30% of zero, I will gladly pay 60%. In fact, even if you demand the full enforceable balance of zero, I will pay double. Yes, I will make a 200% final settlement of your zero enforceable balance. If this does not prove my generosity and sincerity to you, then my heart is broken, and I can go on no more.

 

I beg of you not to wound me with threats of court. If love must end, it should end with a poignant farewell, and leave fond memories in the heart to take forward into the uncertain future. It would distress me so much to have to issue a tear-soaked wasted costs order when your non-existent agreement fails in its heartless bid to take material possessions from me, as you have taken my love.

 

I must admit I am so looking forward to the visit you mention of your friend. Life is so lonely for me, with us only ever able to communicate with your loving letters and so sadly infrequent telephone calls. The thought of genuine human companionship is so warming to the heart. I will fetch out the finest cloth, and prepare a table in his honour. I shall polish the finest silver, and treat your loving friend to hospitality fit for a king.

 

The only problem is, that I am debtor, you see. Therefore the finest cloth I have is my old pyjama bottoms that I use for cleaning the coal cellar out. Still, they should cover a few of the knot holes in the old table. The finest silver I've got is an old baked bean tin from last year when I could actually afford to eat baked beans. Never mind, the holes in the bottom aren't very big, and if you gulp your drink down in one go your trousers shouldn't get too stained.

 

Just tell your friend to be careful not to catch his feet in the holes in my old carpet, or to trip over the skeleton of the old dog I can't afford to feed any more. If he did trip over, his head would bang my bedroom door open, and he would be able to see under my bed.

 

Guess what he would see?

 

That's right. Nothing.

 

What? No pot?

 

That's right, not even the proverbial.

 

Not even the proverbial vessel in which to relieve oneself.

 

That's right, I haven't even got a &*$%^&ing pot to *&^% in you &^&*((%%ing ^&((&%^!

 

Which is a pity. Because if it had been full, I could have offered your friend something to drink. Never mind, if it is raining he can always lie on the floor outside with his head under the drainpipe.

 

Goodnight darling,

Airtomoreira."

 

 

SH

[airtomoreira]

I have now received a copy of an agreement that I requested from Eversheds. On the face of it, it looks quite convincing, but I would like some expert opinion.

 

The original application was made in 1999, for what at the time was a Bank One International Credit Card. Having done some research, I find that the UK arm of Bank One was bought out by Halifax in 2004, so there is obviously a link to the Halifax / HBOS, whom Eversheds are acting on behalf of.

 

I cant unfortunately upload a copy, but I will try to describe what I have. It is a double sided photocopy. The front has the following details:

 

1) My personal details, usual stuff.

2) Headed Up "National Hunt Credit Card, it's easy to apply" Therefore on the face of it, an application form, but

3) Also has a section headed "Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974", stating the parties to the agreement, authorising a credit reference check, as well as the final sentence, which reads "I have read and agree to be bound by the Conditions set out overleaf. I conffirm that all information provided by me is true and complete and that I am over 18 years of age"

4) Underneath, there is a box for my signature, where it says "This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms" My signature appears there, as well as the date

5) Final box on the front says "Your right to cancel. Once you have signed this agreement, you will have for a short time a right to cancel it. Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by Bank One International"

6) The only signature other than mine anywhere on the form appears on this side, under a Received stamp dated a week after the date by my signature. It would appear that this is no more than confirmation from someone that they have processed the form, it's certainly not accompanied by any statement such as "accepted on behalf of the Bank", or anything like that.

 

Thge reverse side of the form is headed "Bank One International Terms & Conditions". Section 7 is headed "Important financial and related details". It states:

"We will set a credit limit for your account and tell you what it is. We may change your credit limit at any time and will let you know about any changes.

You must make a minimum payment of £5 or 2% of the total amount that you owe on each statement, rounded up to the nearest pound"

It then goes on to state the rates of interest that will be charged for cash advances, cheques, balance transfers and other amounts charged to the account.

 

I've been looking for a thread which gives details of all the info that must be present in order to make an agreement enforceable, but can't find one just now. On the face of it, I seem fairly convinced by what I am looking at, the only thing that I can't see is that there is no amount of credit mentioned, just the statement that the Bank will set my credit limit, and tell me what it is. Is that fact - or anything else I have mentioned - enough to make the agreement unenforceable?

 

Comments definitely welcomed!!

[ScabHunter]

The thread which tells you what needs to be on an agreement to make it enforcaeble is here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful.html

 

It sounds as though this one will be, IF the double sided photocopy is a true copy of the original. Is there anything on side one which refers to the reverse?

 

SH

[airtomoreira]

Hi SH

Unfortunately yes, it says "I have read and agree to be bound by the conditions set out overleaf". Am I stuffed? What happens now? Received a letter a few days ago in which Sols said they would proceed to try and obtain a CCJ, or send round the Debt Collectors. Looks like they might be able to go for the CCJ now?

Do I just sit and wait for the letter to arrive, or is there anything else I can do in the meantime?

[airtomoreira]

For anyone new to this thread, can I suggest having a look at (in particular) my earlier post No.42, as it may add something to what I am about to ask.

 

I have a conspiracy theory - which knowing my luck will be way off mark, but here goes!

 

I have received a copy of a CCA agreement which, on the face of it, may be enforceable (see post 42 for details, more opinions very welcome). However, what is there to prove that this agreement actually relates to the alleged debt that I am being pursued for?

 

The agreement in question is for a Credit Card with Bank One International, taken out in 1999. Bank One was apparently taken over by Halifax in 2004. I have a letter from a company called Castle Collections, dated March 2003 (who have now, from the recorded message that you get when you phone them, ceased to be, and become Blair Oliver Scott, or whatever the BOS DCA is called), threatening legal action etc. due to failing to pay agred amounts on the card. As a result of this letter, I agreed to pay Castle Collections £5 per month, which I have been doing ever since 2003, in reduction of the debt. BUT if Halifax only took over Bank One in 2004, why would Castle Collections (their "in house" debt collectors) be writing to me about a Bank One CC debt in 2003, when Halifax had nothing to do with Bank one then?

 

Could it be that Halifax / HBOS have been asked by the Solicitors to produce a credit agreement in my name, and the only one that they can come up with is the 1999 Bank One agreement, rather than an actual Halifax agreement. They then thionk to themselves "Hmm, if we send this to airtomoreira, he won't know the difference, and he'll think we've well and truly got him"

 

If I am sent a Claim Form as the first step in an attempt to obtaining a CCJ against me, I am presumably entitled to see evidence that this application form does actually relate to the alleged debt?

 

To summarise

 

1) Took out a Bank One CC in 1999

2) Bank One taken over by Halifax in 2004

3) In 2003 Halifax in house DCA wrote to me about a CC account (how could this be the Bank One card?)