ladymoonray v Paragon Personal Finance

[ladymoonray]

Many thanks everyone for your support.

 

You'll never guess what Paragon's solicitors are up to now. They're trying to pressure me into amending the consent order to say that the claim should be struck out as revealing no realistic prospect of success. If I don't sign it, they say they'll seek costs from me.

 

I don't give a stuff about their silly point-scoring, but if I sign a consent order on that basis ,will I mess things up for other claimants? I would have thought not, but I'd like to check.

 

The order they've sent me actually makes no sense, because they haven't typed or proof-read it properly, so I've sent it back with a snotty letter. But they're going to want me to sign a re-drafted one, and I'd like to know whether that will affect anyone else's case if I do so.

 

thanks!

 

ladymoonray

[gizmo111]

I don't know - I'll see if I can find someone who does - the most important thing here is making sure you can discontinue without costs. I don't know of anyone else claiming from these - do you?

[ladymoonray]

Oh, and when this is all sorted out, I am seriously contemplating sending my file to the Law Society and making a complaint against Lester Aldridge. They've sent me several really nasty letters, one of which was substantially incorrect as to the facts (they realised that and apologised later, but it doesn't change the tone of their original correspondence), and I don't want them to be allowed to get away with it.

 

The solicitor who turned up at the allocation hearing was actually OK, and I don't think he was the one who was writing the letters, but before the judge he did emphasise the duty of his firm to act properly towards a litigant in person (in his capacity as officer of the court). I don't think Lester Aldridge have been doing that, even if you just take the correspondence after the hearing. Does anyone have a more informed view on this please?

[ladymoonray]

Thanks, Gizmo. I know that KJBoutcher and Susanmom are also claiming from Paragon. There are at least two others, as I was told there are four claims on stay waiting the outcome of mine.

[zootscoot]

Any consent order is a private matter between you and Paragon and can not affect anybody else.

 

Just sign it and run!!!!!!!

[ladymoonray]

Thank you Zoot, I was really hoping that would be the answer! I shall do as you suggest

[ladymoonray]

is there any way they can use this signed consent order to influence these other four claims ?

 

That's what I was asking. I wanted to know whether I'd be messing up anyone else's claim by signing the order. Zoot says not, so I'm going to do it.

[zootscoot]

Actually, as there was a couple of cases stayed pending the outcome of this your case, if you admit the claim is without merit there is a possibility the those could be struck out without a hearing. Do you know if the others have withdrawn?

[ladymoonray]

Paragon wanted to use my case as an example because it was the "most typical," so they offered me no costs up to the end of the first instance hearing. That's why they're especially ****ed off that I have to drop it; they wanted it to go to court. I don't think anyone else has been offered no costs; I know KJBoutcher wasn't. The judge stayed his action to avoid him running up costs, though his case is rather different to mine (he has a document naming the charge as a penalty).

 

I don't really know what to do now. I'm too ill to carry on, but I don't want to mess things up for everyone else. Will it be a case of Paragon applying to strike out the other cases, holding up my consent order as some kind of evidence? Will people be able to defend against that?

 

I know that KJBoutcher wants to carry on, and I think he has a good case with his statement showing the ERC as a penalty. I hope he'll be able to distinguish his case from mine and continue, but I don't really know what kind of status my consent order will have. Help!

[gizmo111]

I know that KJBoutcher wants to carry on, and I think he has a good case with his statement showing the ERC as a penalty. I hope he'll be able to distinguish his case from mine and continue, but I don't really know what kind of status my consent order will have. Help!

 

Not neccasarily - I had a doc showing Mortage Express'es explanation of abbeviations as a penalty - the breach of contract would still ahev to be proved - MF lost against Mortaage Express even with this.

[zootscoot]

The folowing is a quote from Lord Dunedin in Dunlop v New Garage:

1. Though the parties to a contract who use the words ‘penalty’ or ‘liquidated damages’ may prima facie be supposed to mean what they say, yet the expression used is not conclusive. The Court must find out whether the payment stipulated is in truth a penalty or liquidated damages. This doctrine may be said to be found passim in nearly every case.

 

The fact that the defendant has called it a penalty clause is not going to save them.

 

Do you have a time limit on this consent order or can you wait until the others have reached an agreement?

 

Do you know if the other claims are all ERC or if they contain charges as well?

[CrispDust]

Why not redraft this consent form with a confidentiality clause apllicable to the defendents?

[ladymoonray]

Thanks everyone. I'm afraid I'm stuck with this, because if I don't sign the consent order I think Paragon's solicitors will apply to have the case struck out anyway.

 

I've now received the amended version of the order and it says:

 

"By consent it is ordered that-

 

1. The claim be and is hereby struck out as revealing no realistic prospect of success.

 

2. There will be no Order as to Costs with each party bearing their own incurred to date.

 

3. The parties accept such strike-out of the Claimants claim in full and final settlement of each and every cause of action howsoever arising whether now known or not of or in connection with the subject matter of these proceedings and in particular but not limited to the early redemption clause of the Defendant's mortgaged products."

 

Crispdust, I don't think I have the slightest chance of getting Paragon to agree to confidentiality. They've made it very clear that they're using my case as an example.

 

Zoot, I don't think I can wait, because we're supposed to have exchanged disclosure by now (I did write to offer to withdraw before the due date but it's passed now). And the other cases are on stay, so I don't think anything will happen with them unless I do something.

 

I'm afraid I don't know exactly what the other claims are for. I did have a claim for admin fees, but Paragon paid up those straight away. It was only the ERC they wouldn't agree to. That may be the case for others too.

 

Karnevil, THANK YOU! I will do what is right for me, but if there's a way to do it without messing up other people's cases, I'd obviously prefer that. Unfortunately, there may not be one

[zootscoot]

You're doing the right thing

[gizmo111]

You're doing the right thing

 

Ditto

[RichardMacNamara]

hi Ladymoonray

 

I have an ERC claim against Paragon which is allocated to the Fast Track and was stayed pending the outcome in your case. Following on from the Consent Order you signed, their lawyers are, predictably, using the "revealing no prospect of success" argument with me.

 

I tried to argue that it was unfair to try to use this to influence my case as they had imposed this requirement in the Consent Order knowing that the real reason you dropped the case was because you were unwell.

 

They are saying that you appeared very fit at court, walked up 2 flights of stairs to the courtroom and at no time told them you were too unwell to go on either at the court or since.

 

I feel a right idiot now. Can you tell me what happened?

 

Richard

[ladymoonray]

Richard,

 

I'm very sorry you've come up against this. I can't go into detail, but I suggest you refer Lester Aldridge to my letter to them of 5th February, in which I said (among other things):

 

"I have reached a stage in this case where the continuing proceedings have started to have an adverse effect on my health. "

Hopefully that will be enough to stop them flannelling any more.

Good luck.

[RichardMacNamara]

thanks, I will try that.

 

they are denying all knowledge of you being ill.

 

cheers

Richard

[zootscoot]

They would deny all knowledge.

 

What exactly are they threatening?

[RichardMacNamara]

they are inviting me to agree to a consent order in the same terms

[zootscoot]

If its fast track it may be best to accept the offer.

[tuttitickle]

Hi everyone

Am new to this and wasn't sure how to start my own thread so really sorry for jumping on yours! My question is about ERC's as is everyone else's and we too have fallen prey to Kensington Vultures!

Well we have a suspended possession order over our house and are in the final processes of selling it due to this and the fact that our interest rate has gone from 6.4% to 9.2% in 2 and a half years.

We are due to come out of our tie-in period in Oct this year but with a payment of £2463 per month hanging over our heads we really cannot afford to stay and have been forced into the sale ( KEnsington would not agree to anything less than an additional £800 per month on our mortgage payment- then the rate went up 3 times in as many months!)

We are loathed to pay the £12,000 redemption figure to get out of this and really have no choice. I have spent some time scouring all the posts about ERC's with possession orders and does anybody know yet whether they are negotiable in this situation? Also has anyone managed to negotiate a lesser figure before completion?

We have calculated that if we were to come out of our mortgage in 6 months time we would only have to pay £1451/ There is only 6 months left on the mortage which by my calculations should mean that we have to pay £8706 if we continued with our normal monthly mortage payments. How then can they justiify the £12,000? Their losses would surely be the smaller figure as this is all that is left on our mortgage. Also with our rate rising by 3% in just over 2 years surely would mean that they are making a lot of money on their original borrowings? How can they justify this and does anyone have an clarityover whether repossessed properties have to pay the ERC?

Sorry to go on....any help much appreciated guys!