Council Tax Summonds

[Wackyo]

Hello to all at CAG

 

I hope you can help me. My parents do not pay their Council Tax by Direct Debit. Their Council Tax is up to date, however they do not always pay it on the 1st day of the month when its due, as its not always possible for them to get to the bank on this day but its always paid during the month its owed.

 

Yesterday they received a summonds in the post from the council for full settlement of the council tax bill which they cannot afford to pay in one go, they have phoned the council y'day & were told that someone would call them back by that time today but there was no phone call.

 

What can they do about this if anything as it seems very unfair as if they paid by DD they could pay on other dates in the month & they are not in arrears. I'm sure there are many people out there who don't even pay the Council Tax at all!

 

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

[tiler1]

surely the council should have sent at least one reminder prior to a summons being issued.

in Oldham if you struggle or fall behind with payments they will send you a reminder saying it needs to be paid in one full amount and when you ring up and explain you cannot pay it they wll always agree to spread the remaining balance over the remaining months. if you do not stick to this agreement they then issue a summons for full amount.

if it is a court summons, the council can cancel it if you contact them soon enough. just ring up and explain you have received no reminder and feel a summons is a bit harsh and explain payments have always been maintained previously, hopefully they will come to an arrangement. with oldham council you can chose to pay on various dates of month upto 24th i think, is this not the case with ur council, try and find out.

[hightail]

Our local council is doing this to people too. If you pay by direct debit then you can choose the date of payment but if you pay over the counter you must pay on the 1st of the month. One local couple are in court soon because they' paid a couple of days late for two months running and lost their right to pay by instalments

 

Quotes from the council are

1. "we have a duty to collect the council tax by the due date"

2. "if people pay by direct debit then we can give a choice of dates because it costs us less"

 

These quotes were both in the same article in the local rag. So which one is true? Either they have a duty to collect it on time or they don't.

[Wackyo]

Thanks so much for your comments just to update, my mum contacted the council again today after not receiving a phone call from them & its not good.

 

They have told her that she can pay the outstanding in 3 instalments without having to go to court however they have added on the cost of the summonds which is £55 & then an additional charge of £30 for the privelage of being able to pay the COuncil tax monthly again.

 

I think this is absolutely scandalous - would my parents be better off in going to court over this or should they just pay the money?

 

Thanks again for all your help

[hightail]

I have a horrible feeling that Councils are getting really tough over this and once their automated systems have you down as a defaulter there is no going back.

 

What makes me so cross is that many people getting caught up in it are not even in arrears at all. Our council takes 10 payments a year from 1st April through to the following January and then there are two months payment free, so if you've paid 5 months on time then you've paid 6 months council tax. In real terms you're one month in credit by that stage but pay a couple of days late for the next two months in a row and you're in court.

 

Fair it ain't.

[GreatWonder]

they have added on the cost of the summonds which is £55 & then an additional charge of £30 for the privelage of being able to pay the COuncil tax monthly again.

 

I had an arrangement to pay my council tax monthly which I chose to do by debit card once a month over the phone. One payment was made a day after the agreed date and the next month (due to payment date falling on Good Friday) I could only make on the Tuesday after the bank holiday weekend.

 

About a week later I received a nice letter on pink paper telling me that I had failed to stick to my arrangement and court costs were being added.

 

5 minutes on the phone and the costs were struck off and everything back on track. The telephonist even agreed that they are too eager to issues Summons in the case of payments being 1 or 2 days late.

[Wackyo]

Thanks again for all your comments .

 

Great Wonder - unfortunately Enfield Council are not customer friendly, my parents didn't receive any letter notifying them that the right to pay by monthly instalments was terminated, they just received the summonds, when they got through to the council tax department the woman was most unhelpful & insisted that they would have to pay the cost of the summonds & an additional £30 for the privelage to pay monthly again.

 

They have decided to continue to pay their council tax monthly to keep it up to date without adding on the additional amounts requested & will attend court on the date summond - if they lose they will have to pay the additional money but if they at least don't try & fight this & give into the Council's demands they will have to pay it anyways.

 

I guess the council is trying to make up all the money they lost in the Iceland Bank scandal!

[chanduck]

i absolutely agree with wacyo,. i never seen such rude and unhelpful council people as enfield, they are very much concern how to rip off mony..Wackyo could you update what was the outcome of the court..am in same position ..i just missed some payments and they summoned ..should i attend the court or should i just settle with them..

[Conniff]

I'm sorry wackyo, this is how councils operate, they thrive on delayed/missed payments so they can issue a summons. I've said this in many threads, but I will say it again. In 2007, councils in England made £200million from court summons fees when the actual cost is £3.

 

There will be absolutely no point in going to court as it will be for a liability order, so unless they can show they are not liable for council tax, then the judge has to grant it. He cannot take into account ability to pay etc; only if you are liable.

 

The council has no power of collection until they have a liability order and then they have the services of bailiffs or attachment of earnings.

 

When the liability order is issued, phone the council who will then give you time to pay the remaining amount. If your parents should be late or fail to make a payment on time, they can then be legally chased by lawful means.

 

The same goes for you chanduck. If you are liable for council tax, then there is no point in going to court.

 

Liability orders are not county court judgements and are not recorded on any credit reference agencies so will not affect you credit score.

[chanduck]

Hi Conniff,

thanks for reply,much appreciated.. yah i do agree but there should be some rules or some sort of monitoring, well any way all i can do is pay my council and summons fee 50+30...

[Conniff]

Who would monitor them? Certainly not the government as it is they who ordered 'all' government and council departments to be profit making.

[perfectstranger]

Hi Coniff/Chanduck

 

Just to clarify, whilst I do agree totally that the above is awful and I myself have had the pleasure of a liability order (following nervous breakdown!!) I can confirm that central government do not ask councils to be 'profit making'.

 

It is public service funding and any local authority has to be seen to be 'non profit making' - That said, if they make 'efficiency savings' then all be it saving money that doesn't count as 'profit'.....just 'savings'....laughable I know!

 

I whole heartedly agree, there should be tighter monitoring controls on different local authoritys as I'm sure there are lots of inconsistencies, depending who you talk to and which LA is involved.

 

In this case I would argue that tax payers money has been wasted by the local authority in bringing this case to court.....therefore they are misusing public funds for people who DO pay, just not on the given date the council have decided they should...which is a terrible abuse of their powers.

 

I would also consider going to your local MP - local councils hate ANY interference by local MP's....and local press highlighting your poor parents plight.

Believe me, these will be THE most effective route for you to take to create 'waves' in that departmentment and get someone to accept responsibility there for this appalling situation.

 

I hope the above helps in some small way, please keep us updated of your progress.

 

Take Care

PS

[chanduck]

that sounds good perfectstranger..thanks for info .. but am bit afriad..if they say that we already issues reminder letters and i heard that once we highlight the issue they may try to harass by looking in to differetn areas .. is there any truth in that ..coz i strongly feel that they may take actions sort of revenge thing...

[perfectstranger]

Hi again Chanduck

 

Firstly don't panic, always remember that they are employed with public funding..ie taxpayers money (yours and mine!)

 

I can understand your concerns wholly but I would definately get in touch with your local MP straight away and highlight your parents plight to him/her. These people are paid to represent the local constituents..and believe me, they can certainly be a pain in the backside for local authoritys when they get involved. Most local authoritys know that Joe Public just usually accepts their word as god....so they can adopt the 'well thats the way it is - like it or lump it tactic'. However, if local Mp's get involved, particluarly in a case such as yours where payment wasn't refused - just not on the day that they wanted - then please be assured any local MP worth their salt will love to get their teeth into this one to help their constituent out....let's face it...they are all about good local PR...thats what gets them votes...so they want to help you...because...yes you guessed it .....it gets them extra votes!!LOL!

 

Now on the other side of the fence...local government usually has the opinion that local MP's are busy body meddlers who are just put on the face of this earth to make the councils life difficult.....so any involvement of a local MP will ensure that:

 

a) The councils methodolody is under scrutiny..ie if they have behaved inapproriately then they will be in the poo!

 

b) You get a fair hearing of your complaint with the back up of someone who can make waves, take you case up and give your folks the support they need...and who won't be bullied

 

So all in all, this in the first instance would definately be your best option. I suspect once the revenues team receive a call/letter from the local MP then they will swiftly rethink their stance and become more ameniable.

 

And one final thing....I know this because as I mentioned previously...I have been on the receiving end.....and I have knowledge of how LA's operate and their inefficiency and inconsistency...

 

IMHO -Go do it - you really have nothing to lose but will have a valuable ally on your side - also if your parents are elderly and therefore vulnerable...all the better...just give the Local MP the bit to chomp on and stand back, watch and enjoy

 

Hope this has helped to reassure -Good Luck and let us know how this progresses

 

SP

[Conniff]

I can confirm that central government do not ask councils to be 'profit making'.

 

 

I watched the interview with Gordon Brown where he said 'no government department should make a loss, in fact they should be in profit', and that includes councils as they are a government department.

 

Why do you think the DVLA (as an example), has started handing out £80 penalty demands by the thousands, they don't want departments being run on the taxes collected, but to be self financing hence the £200million made from liability orders in 2007 and the refusal to justify the fee charged.

[perfectstranger]

Hi Conniff

 

Apologies been away for a while and have just returned to the thread. I think we need to clarify what the terminology 'government departments' covers. My comments are purely based on Local Government authoritys, who by the whole are at the mercy of Central Government too.

 

LA's receive a pot of money - for all their services which then has to be divided up amongst the different departments and the expenditure spent/accounted for. I can't comment on DVLA as have no knowledge on that. However, LA's should not make a profit, they are spending tax payers money on services, and are not a commercial business per se making profit.

 

However as per my previous post - they do this un-officially by making 'efficiency savings' ie awardinbg contracts to cheaper contractors which have been put through the tendering process.

 

I'm saying that as a result of that, costs are less....therefore a saving is made (blurry fudged way of them saying..profit). However their remit is to be non profit making ie...not to use public funding to make profit.

 

Subtle difference in spin...same bloomin outcome....but if you are to ask any local authority, they will inform you they are non profit making as a result ....wheels within wheels