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    • happy for mod to move it to suitable location under thread title Background: Thanks in advance for any thoughts you can share. This is a very long history, I appreciate your time. In 2011 I took out a £8500. loan from Borro private finance against art and jewellery to make ends meet. The agreements are attached below. This is a CCA. Borro regulated by the FCA. The interest rate is APR 68.8  % for 6 months.  I paid the interest and capital during the period term. On 3 May 2012  I renewed this loan at 79.4% interest for another 6 months.  Last week I requested all evidence the lender holds concerning the agreements. Missing are 03/05/2012 through 14/06 2013.( not under a SAR).  I fell into arrears on the loan and one piece of jewellery was sold, reducing the balance to £6400. Dec 2014.   The lender took a payment of interest £2044.16.  Renewed against the other items ( art etc) on this loan.  The new interest rate increased to 88.8%  . At the time the ring was sold, I requested all documents concerning the sale. Borro produced none. The ring is appraised at $17,5000.  £14,000.  The ring was sold for £3500.  I have an appraisal. I was notified prior to the sale. The ring was sold by "private treaty". I continued to ask for information about this sale until todays date. No information has been provided.  I took a huge loss . The ring is not clearly described on the inventory compared to the appraisal. Documents missing from Borro response to my request include 25/10/2014 to 10/04/2015. I was in arrears on this loan and a new agreement was made. The loan amount was increased to £10,810.00 and the interest rate decreased to  80%.  what is interesting is that the lender should have sold this ring, the value was sufficient to pay off my debts. But that is not what happened. someone got a deal on a nice ring.  II. ON 1, Jan 2012, I took out a second loan in the amount of £3000 against another piece of Jewellery. The interest was 68.8%. I paid the P&I on this loan.    Missing from the requested information is agreement from July 10/2012 until 12/12/2012.  I did pay interest during that period and on 12/12/2012 through 11/06/2013 I renewed  with an interest rate for 79.4 %.  I renewed on 04/07/2013 through 03/06/2014 interest rate 97.8%.  I renewed this loan on 03/01/2014 interest rate was 88.8. Take note there is very little description about this item. I redeemed the loan but ended up back in the pawn. 19/06/2014 to 18/12/2014 interest eat 94.5%. I renewed this loan again 19/03/2015 . Interest rate was 93.2%. Now there is a clearer description of the ring. Documents missing from Borro response to my request include 012/06/2013 to /10/2014 to 10/04/2015. Information on the  description is also scant until I took the loan out again in 2014. The last payment on either loan was March 2015. Default date was September 2015. The lender still has my property.   PROBLEM: In 2013, Borro became aware that the reason I had pawned these items was that I was a plaintiff in a substantial lawsuit in the US. I borrowed because I had lost my job. I was not able to work( I had been FCA regulated). I was facing eviction, had serious financial stability  and some mental health problems. I gave them a copy of the pleadings. They are aware that I had claimed these loans as part of my damages.  In 2015, Periodically I requested the accounting. Some was provided some was not. As a result, in  2016, the head of credit wrote to me " "Thank you for coming in to see me today. As discussed, we will freeze your accounts with us from today the 14th October 2016 until the 31st of December 2016. This will mean that no further interest will accrue until the 31st December 2016 and we will not consign to sale until on or after the 31st December 2016."  I did not hear from them again until  08 February 2017. On 30/03/2017 I responded to Borro request that I give them an update on the accounts. I wrote that I needed a settlement figure.  No response the following week I personally met with the manager I had been dealing with. She told me that " we are not going to sell your property". We understand that you have fallen on hard times, we are human. How long will it take you to sort this out. I responded about 2 months."   I did not hear from Borro again until I wrote to them on 18/03/2019 where I stated, " the last time we met you were going to give me a settlement figure". There was no response. As a result, on  18 March 2019 I sent  an email to - Subject: RE: Borro Accounts. Dear Lender. Hello. The last time we met, you were going to give me a settlement figure. Litigation is still ongoing. We have a potential investor that has asked me to get a figure from you. Depending on that number, I can let you know if I can pay the bill and collect my things in the next few weeks. Please get in touch as soon as possible". no response.   In early July 2019 I received a call from someone at Borro. It was not a good time. I asked him to call me back the following week. I did not hear from him again either. On  6 august 2019 I received an email from Borro that I should log into my account. I was unable to. The following week I wrote to them and in summary: On 13/08/2019 I wrote and included a summary of the events: I am writing to advise you that I am obtaining advice concerning the  account. You are aware that you have not pursued any further action on this account since approximately 2014(or earlier) . This is because I had an agreement with Name Deleted that Borro was not “going to sell my property,  I recited the above summary of events.   Certainly, I had no intention to give up valuable property for almost 8 years and pay interest and principal for this long. I want to develop a resolution to the matter between us. In order to achieve this, Please can you provide me with the following information which is attached in a spreadsheet: I need a very simple accounting and please answer the below: Any renewed loans where additional credit was extended through the re-appraisal of the assets ( ie using the asset as leverage) to extend further credit where the loan proceeds were applied to the loan for reinstatement purposes. What were the source of funds for the last payment made? Because I am seeking advice with a view towards finding a resolution, I would appreciate it if you could hold action on the above account for a period of at least 30 days to give me the time  I need to obtain advice. If you are adding interest or other charges to the account, I would be grateful if you would freeze these during this period so that my debt does not continue to increase. Please can you send me the enclosed spreadsheet and the documents you loaded into my account as soon as possible. This will enable me to obtain accurate advice. I will contact you again as soon as possible with further details of a  proposal to resolve the account. ( so far this lender has not complied with my request)   SETTLEMENT OFFER From: Borro Customer Service <Contact@borro.com> Sent: 14 August 2019 13:22 To: Subject: RE: Your Loan Account   Dear borrower. Thank you for your email and for getting in touch with Borro. As you would be aware there have been many loans with Borro, with two loans that remain outstanding which we are seeking to resolve with you. Given the significant period these have been overdue, the current balance on these two loans is almost £52,000 of which the majority is interest. In order for you to move on from this debt it is proposed to sell the collateral associated with Loan DIAMOND RING 175643 in full and final settlement and return all the items under Loan 198678 to you. This would generate a loss for Borro of approximately £49,000, however given your circumstance this is something we are prepared to offer. While I would love to pay Borro £3000. I do not currently have the funds. Borro is aware because I wrote to them on august 13 advising them i am not working. I do not want to lose my property. I need to find a way for them to walk away, give me my property back. WHAT ARE MY OPTIONS? Below are the questions I have or could raise in order to "negotiate with them". Is this a high interest short term loan? What are the effects of an CCA that has an interest rate of 93.6% and is renewed every six months? It appears that one loan was "Refinanced".  What FCA terms did they violate which might apply to this situation ? After the agreement expired and terms were changed, what rights does the PB have to collect further payments or sell the ring? Did they waive their rights to further payments? How can I use refusal to produce sale information concerning the first ring, to negotiate my way out of this? What is interesting is, they sold a £14,000 ring privately, concealed the buyer and other information, then turned around and INCREASED THE INDEBTEDNESS substantially. In fact they want to do this again, but this time are offering to  write off £49,000  in other interest. What am I missing? What effect does violations of FCA 6 and 7. help me to negotiate a settlement. Is the FOS effective threat to the firm to pressure a settlement? Does a cost cap apply to these loans and if yes what is the amount of the cap? How can I use the current appraisal and FCA or any other rules to stop them from selling the ring for less than market value? I have someone looking at the accounting to see if there are errors. found several when query. anything you can find that voids the agreements? Anything else you can think of THANK YOU!!!   RING.pdf art.pdf
    • I am so sorry I see the confusion now, I was meant to say CAB not CAG. They are just sending him letters to copy and send which doesn't seem helpful at all.    I also apologise for the vague details right now. I actually thought he had got rid of the car already until he mentioned it as he dropped me off home, so I've only got a vague idea myself, i just wanted to see if there was anything he could do other than send letters. I will get more details from him and update this thread, or get him to join as you have advised.  sorry 
    • It was a late payment, no default 
    • As he bought the car last year – well over six months ago, it's not at all clear that he will be able to terminate the contract. I think you need to let us know more about the car, new/second-hand/price/mileage and also the date of purchase. Also I think we need to have a list of the faults which occurred and which have been repaired and the faults which have occurred and which are outstanding. He will probably need to get these faults appraised by an independent inspector and also an estimate for repairs. It is highly likely that the best he can expect is to have the repairs carried out free of charge – but we need to know a lot more really. It really would be much more helpful if your brother would take control of this himself and come onto the forum and start posting a story. I don't fully understand how you say that he hasn't been here before and yet we are telling him to send letters which he thinks are being ignored.
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Renzokuken

Currys Fives.

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Not sure if this belongs here or is already here but feel free to move/delete if needed.

 

Working at currys, I frequently find myself on the recieving end of a public battering due to customers not getting their own way. I'm happy to grin and bare the punishment, towards those of you who are truely in the wrong or those of you who see fit to abuse me. But for those of you in the right, let me assure you I take no pleasure in taking the side of a money hungry company who not only treats its customers like dirt, but it's employees too.

 

So I'm going to share with you the latest training scheme currys have just spent a good 5 million on, to give you some insight into how the salesman is going to pitch his goods to you and how you can see though some of the Bulls**t.

 

Ok, there latest training [problem].. I mean scheme, is called fives. It's trained to all staff via some darren brown style mind games and takes a full 3 day training session to learn. It consists of five "rooms" each containing a step the salesman should take to convert you from a browser to a buyer.

 

Room 1: The greeting, the salesman aproaches the potential customer and asks "what brings you to currys today". This serves to act as an open ended question (instantly denying you a yes or no answer and opening you up to further questioning") Also it allows them to use the match +1 technique, where they match your attitude then plus it by 1, aka if your angry they empathize, if your happy, they're happier. They will also attempt to mirror your body language.

 

Room 2: Engagement, the salesman will then ask you what your looking for, and ask you "are you a whateverhappens customer". When you proceed to ask what whateverhappens is s/he will then tell you that they'll inform you about what whateverhappens is, in a little while, leaving you pondering on it. They call this "planting the seed".

 

Room 3: The sale box, the salesman will then proceed to ask you if your replacing a product, and what you liked/hated/would change about the old one. He'll then proceed to tell you "what if I could offer you *insert item* at *insert price".

 

Room 4: The tailor, this room, enlarges on the previous room, explaning the reasons why you should buy the product, and why you'll almost certanly need those expensive premium leads on your TV. This part is all about getting those margin enhancing attachments. Then they'll ask you if you'd considered a "cash or monthly option" trying to convert you on to easiplan credit wherever possible.

 

Room 5: The happy customer, the salesman will then proceed to take you to a side area (for larger items), and explain to you what whateverhappens is. They'll attempt to make it sound like an exclusive club, and that it totaly outclasses the manufactorers warantee in everyway, they'll also try to overcome such objections as house insurance and credit card coverage, whilst emphasizing the lovely accidental damage cover and playing down the cost. They will then hand you your product with two hands if they can, and ask you if your happy with your purchase.

 

 

 

We were also told that once you have gotten 3 yes's from the customer, they're 100% going to buy from you.

 

Anyway hope this helps, and please bare in mind, we get mystery shopped by the company and are forced into using this.

 

 

Also, for objections to whateverhappens we are trained to overcome pretty much any objection you can think of, and even some you can't. The only thing they can't counter is someone giving a straight "No" answer. If they ask you why you don't want to take it, just reply that you would rather not talk about it.

 

As for getting discount off items, every store has a discount budget, if the store is over that budget you don't have a hope in hell of getting anything off an item. Also beware of salesmen who say you can have half price stands with your TV or money off premium cables. These are called WBW or When bought with deals. And usualy include taking an already overpriced item and using a pre-packaged deal on the computer to knock the price down, these deals are not true discounts because the item is already overpriced to begin with and the discount does not come off the stores target (I.E: Cheap PCLine laptop bags going from £40 to £19.99 wbw). The only chance you have of getting discount is by taking out a whateverhappens insurance plan, or easiplan credit and then bargining after the salesman knows your going to take them, as no store cares about sales without either of these on. In the case of whateverhappens, the monthly option can be canceled by canceling a direct debit at your bank, so you could potentialy get discount for free if you play the salesman, most shops will tell you that you may only cancel it after 3 months. This is a lie and they tell you this because it registers on the stores profit and loss after 3 months. Also remember, if a store has no discount to play with, you will get nothing reguardless of what you take.

Edited by Renzokuken

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So what you're saying is 'play the salesman, screw the company for all you can get'?

Look buddy, I think Fives is as useful as a paper plane in a snowstorm but stop trying to paint ALL your colleagues in a bad light just because you've had a rough ride. Most of us are trying to give the customer the honest options so that they can make their mind up on the customer's terms whilst still battling the hostility and unfair stereotyping from the currys-staff-are-no-good brigade.

Edited by Antidom
Simplifying language

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So what you're saying is 'play the salesman, screw the company for all you can get'?

Look buddy, I think Fives is as useful as a paper plane in a snowstorm but stop trying to paint ALL your colleagues in a bad light just because you've had a rough ride. Most of us are trying to give the customer the honest options so that they can make their mind up on the customer's terms whilst still battling the hostility and unfair stereotyping from the currys-staff-are-no-good brigade.

 

I'm a salesman myself, and I'm not proud of the fact that myself and my colleagues are being forced into playing, what are essentialy mind games with the customer or "guest" as they like to call them now. We as salesmen stand to lose nothing if customers start smartening up to what we do, it's not like we gain commission anymore, and cabs are practicaly worthless.

 

Trust me, the only blame, or staff hating going on here is towards the upper management, the people who create and enforce this kind of insulting garbage upon the staff.

 

Also, you may not realise it, but 90% of those so called "deals" the company makes you think are awesome value, are actualy about as close to scams as you can get without being illegal. WBW deals are an excelent example, company buys in serano stands at about £30 each (guesstimate), sells them alone for the rip-off price of £140, then gives the customer a fantastic half-price offer when bought with a TV. Not so fantastic when you see their original profits.

Edited by Renzokuken

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So essentially what you are saying for the best deals is to take the whateverhappens, negociate any deal/discount and then cancel the whateverhappens within 14 days if it's 'pay-as-you-go' or 45 days if it's 'pay once'

 

Edited by Michael Browne

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Nice insight Renzokuken,

 

Thank you for sharing. We'll be better armed for it :)

 

I have taken the liberty of altering the title a bit so everyone is clear about what stores in refers too.

 

Lex

Edited by Mr lex
change title

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Renzokuken, I'm a PI clerk myself but after a few years of being a salesman I know that as useful as Five ISN'T to someone like me or to a warehouse colleague (or anyone who isn't trained to know the products), the basis of some good customer service can be found in some of the questions asked. Also, as a customer, I appreciate someone matching their moods to suit mine when I enter a store. I expect to be asked open ended questions to determin exactly what my product requirements are.

Believe me, I'm well aware of the WBW / customer offer button and some of the obscene costs which is why I'm satisfied that my store deliberatley undercuts other local DSGi stores by keeping the wbw-deals open to all (except if the customer/guest enters and starts insulting my colleagues during their time there. Mine is a pleasant store that doesn't deliver or demand bull****. Good manners cost nothing, they reap what they sow).

You seem to be bitter about the whole lack of commision and cabs, but if it's money you want then you're in the wrong job (especially when there's a credit crunch on). The main priority is giving the customers the choice of products relavent to them so they can make an educated decision on their own. Look back a little at something older than Fives...it's called 'Right first time' and it's about making sure the customer DOES have the product that's right for THEM (so asking some open ended questions is hardly going to harm their chances of getting what they want)

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Renzokuken, I'm a PI clerk myself but after a few years of being a salesman I know that as useful as Five ISN'T to someone like me or to a warehouse colleague (or anyone who isn't trained to know the products), the basis of some good customer service can be found in some of the questions asked. Also, as a customer, I appreciate someone matching their moods to suit mine when I enter a store. I expect to be asked open ended questions to determin exactly what my product requirements are.

Believe me, I'm well aware of the WBW / customer offer button and some of the obscene costs which is why I'm satisfied that my store deliberatley undercuts other local DSGi stores by keeping the wbw-deals open to all (except if the customer/guest enters and starts insulting my colleagues during their time there. Mine is a pleasant store that doesn't deliver or demand bull****. Good manners cost nothing, they reap what they sow).

You seem to be bitter about the whole lack of commision and cabs, but if it's money you want then you're in the wrong job (especially when there's a credit crunch on). The main priority is giving the customers the choice of products relavent to them so they can make an educated decision on their own. Look back a little at something older than Fives...it's called 'Right first time' and it's about making sure the customer DOES have the product that's right for THEM (so asking some open ended questions is hardly going to harm their chances of getting what they want)

 

You seem to be going on the defensive for no reason. Colleagues at currys (as you know) are trained to never, ever, make someone buy something they don't want or need and I would never even hint otherwise. Which is why they rightly include the probing questions about your needs in a new product. This part of fives I have no issue with as giving good customer service should a agiven in any shop.

 

Also your store isn't the only one giving away WBW deals without anyone actualy buying anything with it, TV stands where I work are practicaly never sold at full asking price unless someone treats a sales colleague like dirt. At which point they usualy don't buy due to the high price anyway.

 

In my other topic, I mentioned that I've been working with the company for 2 years, I joined just after they took away comission, forcing alot of good people out of the job. I have alot of friends who stuck with the company who are very bitter about this. And feel (as I do) that the current bonus scheme is an absolute and insulting sham. I agree that taking away comission makes us less biased towards expensive products. But they totaly counteracted this point by giving us team bonus and targets to hit, meaning we still want as big a sale as possible. It's sometimes difficult for less moraly guided colleagues to weigh out the needs of the customer versus the desire for them to get as much money as possible on their number.


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It's sometimes difficult for less moraly guided colleagues to weigh out the needs of the customer versus the desire for them to get as much money as possible on their number.

 

TBF, I would have to agree with you on that point. Fortunatley, those type of trouble makers are a dying breed in my store. Most of which have jumped ship to sell furniture elsewhere.

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Just a heads up to anyone reading this topic who may happen to be looking in currys for a 32" V4000 Sony bravia TV.

 

The staff were told to remove this model from display to avoid having to price match comet, who are offering the TV at £399. Currys are selling it at £450, and making £80 worth of profit on it, so the sales staff have been told to offer you the far inferior series 4 samsung 32" instead at the same price of £399.

 

How's that for a bargin.


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Thanks renzo, great thread ;)


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Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you! :p

 

 

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Well Renzo, like you I have recently been sent on the FIVES training (I only did the 1 day course) and must admit I did find it quite strange. However I don't see how you could call it 'brainwashing' or anything of the sort, it's just about maximising sales for both the customer and yourself, I'm sure you're well aware of your KPI targets and I don't know about you but I don't really mind reaching mine...

 

There are a few things I don't really find necessary regarding FIVES, infact I think they're abit pushy (I'm not that kind of person) so I don't really use 'Room 2'. I don't think it's right to "plant" whateverhappens into someones head before you even establish what they want.

 

The customers I have spoken to about these new techniques have actually been quite impressed with the service and they found that they got the most out of what they initally had in mind (whether it be a TV, camera or whatever...) because of this "Brainwashing" you call it.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not the biggest 'company man', I go to work to pay the bills, but I think that what you have said is a bad misrepresentation of Currys staff, we're not there to rob you blind, it's to make sure that when you buy your £800 TV, you don't end up with the type of quality picture you'd get on a £300 set.

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Well Renzo, like you I have recently been sent on the FIVES training (I only did the 1 day course) and must admit I did find it quite strange. However I don't see how you could call it 'brainwashing' or anything of the sort, it's just about maximising sales for both the customer and yourself, I'm sure you're well aware of your KPI targets and I don't know about you but I don't really mind reaching mine...

 

Well I would consider Planting mental seeds, using introductory methods deliberately designed to open customers up to questioning, and aspects of attitude management and manipulation. To be unnatural maybe brainwashing was too strong a term, although if you would prefer it, I would happly call it "mental manipulation". And sure I don't mind reaching targets, but I would prefer it if targets never existed and we were in the shop purely to help people. Targets only put pressure on us to make more money, and pressure makes some people resort to desprate tactics.

 

There are a few things I don't really find necessary regarding FIVES, infact I think they're abit pushy (I'm not that kind of person) so I don't really use 'Room 2'. I don't think it's right to "plant" whateverhappens into someones head before you even establish what they want.

 

Exactly what I'm saying, we as salesmen should be here to advise people, not plant mental seeds in order to get people to pay for what I would consider to be a second rate service avalable elsewhere for cheaper. I find that telling a salesman how to sell to a customer makes us nothing more than machines.

 

The customers I have spoken to about these new techniques have actually been quite impressed with the service and they found that they got the most out of what they initally had in mind (whether it be a TV, camera or whatever...) because of this "Brainwashing" you call it.

 

I find it hard to believe you actualy discussed fives with a customer in the store. Did you explain the "planting the seed" and "open ended questioning" parts in full. Because I'm sure I'd be outraged if I found a salesman playing tricks like those when he's supposed to be helping me.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not the biggest 'company man', I go to work to pay the bills, but I think that what you have said is a bad misrepresentation of Currys staff, we're not there to rob you blind, it's to make sure that when you buy your £800 TV, you don't end up with the type of quality picture you'd get on a £300 set.

 

I believe I've already gone through this, I'm not badmouthing currys staff we as salesmen are forced into using this. We are test shopped, we are quizzed by management and if found lacking we are forced onto performance reviews until we use these techniques or are sacked. If we want to pay the bills and keep our jobs we HAVE to use fives. The management are adamant about this. Let there be no more talk of me "badmouthing" the average joe sales colleague. The blame for fives, all the rip off deals and half-truths lies 100% on the shoulders of upper-management. Also as far as picture quality goes, I'm assuming your talking about premium leads. I agree, customers need a good lead to get a good picture from their new TV. Buying a £800 TV and using cheap leads will resort in a crap picture, what I dislike is the way we offer these once the customer has chosen their TV at the point they're least likely to leave. And blatantly over charge for them knowing they're extremely unlikely to leave the shop. We're expected to sell these in one of those "oh and you'll also need these" moments.

 

Case in point:

A Belkin grey series HDMI Cable at currys will set you back £40 unless you buy it with a TV in which case they will offer a reduction down to £30. You could shop elsewhere, and get a cable of identical quality for as little as £15 thats half the price of this so called offer.

 

Ever wonder why management are pressing us so hard to sell a premium cable with every TV when possible. It's because they make an absolute mint in profits off them at the expense of a customer who doesn't know better. As I said above, currys make about £80 on a 32" sony V4000 series, if we sold a premium lead with that, I'd say that would easily add another £20 quids worth of profit (judging from the prices other shops can sell the cable for). Thats a massive 25% extra profit over the profit from the TV just by selling them a cable.

Edited by Renzokuken

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Just a quick update, things have changed alot due to the "recession", sales colleagues are no longer targeted on the same figures anymore.

 

You can expect to recieve very little in the way of discount now, with most stores being limited to somewhere within the 1 - 2% range. Also, sales colleagues are being targeted now on the following:

 

Computing:

Norton 360 with computer/laptop

Microsoft office with computer/laptop

Whateverhappens on computer/laptop

Techguys services on computer/laptop

Mobile Broardband on computer/laptop

 

Television:

Premium leads with TV/DVD

Whateverhappens on TV's

AV furniture (stands) on TV's

Sky/Virgin with TV's

 

Other:

Timed Delivery slot sales

 

 

As sales targets are low, as far as pound notes go, be wary as many sales staff would rather see sales walk than have sales with non of the above negatively impact on their targets.

 

For example:

 

I sell 2 TV's, with whateverhappens on 1 of them, giving me a 50% strike rate, which is above my 35% target. A customer then walks in wanting to buy a TV without whateverhappens on, which would drop my target down to 33.3%. Rather than doing that, I tell the customer the item is out of stock, and my strike rate remains high. As the actual cash targets are low, it does not matter as much that I've just let a TV sale walk, because my strike rate is high, making it appear that I'm doing my job well.

 

As sales staff are no longer being targeted on any white goods (fridges, freezers, cookers etc), you can expect to recieve next to nothing in the form of discount, unless your sale is pretty spectacular.

 

In short, they care about nothing but attachments on TV's and Computing right now.

Edited by Renzokuken

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My god, I thought call centers were bad with targets!

 

So basically, get a TV, ask for the warranty and then just before signing on the dotted line (when it is confirmed the item is in), ask for the warranty to be taken off. And then write a letter to head office telling them they are disgusting for making their staff have to behave this way.

 

Why don't they look at Richer Sounds' model? Staff not targeted, no pressure sales, honest and decent advice, refundable warranty if not used. I'd rather shop there than in Dixons and the like.


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To be honest it's nothing but a pain in the ass. If we sell a TV with nothing on, or even for example with everything but a stand. We get the management asking us why we didn't get them, what objections the customers have, and how we can over come them.

 

To which I usualy reply "they already have a stand" which usualy they can't think up an objection to.


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How about this one:

The customer had a brain and knew the warranty was not worth it.

 

See what they say to that one!


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How about this one:

The customer had a brain and knew the warranty was not worth it.

 

See what they say to that one!

 

Funny thing is, they've also shortened the disiplinary procedure to 6 weeks from 5 months. Anyone not "performing" could be out the door in a month and a half. Barely even enough time to secure a new job in this current climate.

Edited by Renzokuken
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When I worked for PC World (as a manager) it was nigh on impossible to sack someone for poor performance because the process was so complicated that there was bound to have been a step missed and therefore a tribunal would overturn it. No, the best option was to intimidate or bully the poor unfortunate into leaving. Incidentally, I didn't last very long as a sales manager...

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When I worked for PC World (as a manager) it was nigh on impossible to sack someone for poor performance because the process was so complicated that there was bound to have been a step missed and therefore a tribunal would overturn it. No, the best option was to intimidate or bully the poor unfortunate into leaving. Incidentally, I didn't last very long as a sales manager...

 

Tell me about it, the IPI scheme they had me on was a sham, they missed so many steps I could have ripped them to shreds in a tribunal had the thing not been dropped.


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Renzokuken - I've been with the company 3+abit yrs, so I'm not surprised by much I see anymore. I was looking over it, and of course because it's a business fives is another attempt to make money, they wouldn't do it otherwise. Some aspects of fives I think are part of good customer service, some are niceties that matter more to some customers than others - those same niceties I think are what frustrate some staff about fives, but hopefully if the customer doesn't care for niceties it wouldn't've occurred to them. I think the company is panicking too, with WNR and the like - they hope customers care enough about those things, and desperately trying to go all out on them.

 

Because of that, at first fives seemed pretty rigidly enforced to me, and that rigidness I didn't like, but we're allowed some sway in how we apply it I believe. Fives is being pushed from the top down quite hard, I don't envy my manager for the pressure he's under from his superiors, and I can tell he doesn't really have a choice either but to push it, so I cut him some slack - that said he does believe in it anyway. I don't envy you salespeople either because they could arbitarily set targets to be whatever they like, and it's not an easy time for anyone - tensions are high because I think the company's trying to get everything it can (evenmoreso because of the recession)

 

I would have moral dilemas too selling things like serano stands, premium leads, etc, when you know there's a better deal for the customer elsewhere - beyond just being helpful+offering stuff the very nature of selling/persuading is to distort the customer's perception on truth in a favourable way, so it is a little morally hairy. I care more about helping the customer than helping the bottom line, so I'm warehouse and happy with it. I ask my manager "what do you love about me working here?" haha.

 

BTW - I challenge you to pull a girl using fives! :p

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I’ve been with Currys for approaching 3yrs in October. I was originally hired as a merchandiser (basically the person who creates displays and puts balloons and posters up for promotions) and I loved the job, got on with the managers, and was – dare I say it- pretty good at what I did.

However, since earlier this year I was ‘encouraged’ to become more of a sales ‘advisor’, essentially told in not so many words there weren’t enough jobs to do in the store to justify the merchandising role, so I would have to sell or get a new job. Begrudgingly I accepted this, as I need the money, plus I was told I would be selling laptops and personal audio at the front of store, an area that I would be most comfortable at and have the most knowledge of. Things went ok at first, until the company implemented the Combined Profitability Report, which as Renzokuken has already described, is our targets for selling laptops and TV attachments. The minimum standard is an average of 305 points a week (100 points for each attachment), and so every time you sell a laptop/tv you MUST attach at least 3 items in order to get anywhere near your minimum target. For every item you don’t attach you get management interrogating you as to why the customer didn’t want it. If a customer wants less than 2 attachments, you must bring over a Sales Floor Leader who will add pressure to the customer to try and grab whatever they can onto the sale.

As a sweetener customers are offered the wbw deals on software, so you may be told you’re getting a great deal on Office for £59.99 rather than £99.99 and Norton 360 half price, when in fact it’s not a deal at all, it’s just overpricing. A new thing we’ve been instructed to say in my store is that if you buy Office with the laptop, we take £10 off the price and give you Norton for free, when in fact it’s not free at all, it’s just you’re buying the two of them at the reduced non-advertised wbw price – do not be taken in by this con!

As part of fives you have to find a solution product and tailor this to the customers’ needs, except, no matter what the customer tells you here, you MUST push them into buying the Office/Norton/WEH/Techguys services or face the wrath of the management. Be under no illusions, no matter what you tell the sales advisor you need from the laptop, they will sell you a laptop that is at the bare minimum spec you require so that you still have cash left over from your budget to be able to buy all these ‘essentials’. Oh, and students, here is a heads up – DONT buy Office from Currys/PC World! Your uni will have a deal with Microsoft where you can get the full version of Office for £40, rather than the substandard Home Office and Student edition Currys offer the ‘deal’ on.

Furthermore, there was a meeting a few weeks ago called Retail Priorities. Basically, amongst the many survive or die points for the business was a section called Talent And Deployment where basically the people who have the knowledge on a particular product category will sell in that area, so for example, myself and Apple products and laptops. This week a new bonus scheme has started, whereby commission has all but returned 2yrs after it was previously scrapped. Colleagues must generate at least £60 worth of margin per hour they have worked otherwise they get no guaranteed bonus. This, in addition to a revised CPR report means every member of staff must sell in every area, so I will have to sell in TV’s and photography when I know little about them (there is limited company training btw) in order to get anywhere near this figure, going completely against this whole Talent and Deployment initiative.

Fives monitoring is a complete joke. At training you are told to adapt the tools to your own way, but the experience of the test shop is if you don’t say the scripted questions exactly as they are worded, the test shopper ont tick the box on their form, and you end up with a poor test shop score. Get below 50% and you’re immediately disciplined no matter what quality of service you have provided the mystery shopper.

I’ve given 2yrs of my life to this company. I’ve worked extra hours when needed, many times not paid, I’ve ‘won’ incentives and prizes for my work which have never materialised as the management or area manager have ‘forgotten’ about them. I’ve been bullied into taking a role I did not want, feel constant pressure to force customers into buying items they do not need, and now I face IPI disciplinary action as I have been a ‘red’ on the CPR report because I do not/will not bully people into buying items they do not want. If I am placed on this IPI report, and am being pushed towards the door believe you me I will not take it quietly as I have done everything my fives training has asked of me. I have greeted and engaged the customer, found what matches their requirements the best, offered them the attachments they *may* need and ultimately I cannot force someone into buying something they do not want or need. Unlike a lot of colleagues I would rather take the hit and be in the red on the CPR rather than lie to a customer and tell them an item is out of stock if they’re not buying anything with it – what kind of company invents a scheme that encourages employees to turn away business of any kind especially in the current climate!

Maybe Currys.digital have a different way of doing things but in Currys were told this is the way forward, and if you dont agree the door is over there.

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Ah I was just about to update this reguarding the new bonus scheme but it looks like you beat me to it.

 

And I can 100% vouch for what you've just said, I'm in the fortunate position of being able to sell on TV's and computing therefor my CPR number is pretty good. But I can't understand how they can just dump a merchandiser onto sales and expect them to top 305 points. Especialy without any training.

 

Your saving grace is, I've never met a manager yet who can go through an IPI correctly. Keep notes of their actions and your figures, get into a union, and most importantly, ask for training. That way if you come to taking this to a tribunal you've got all the evidence behind you.

 

And it's ironic that " this is the way forward, and if you dont agree the door is over there." Is the exact same sentance my manager used, down to the last letter when "motivating" (aka threatening) us.

 

-----------------------------------------

 

But anyway, currys have once again introduced a bonus scheme that nets them maximum profit, with minimum payouts and encourages bad buisness practices. Bonus for sales colleagues is baised entirely on the profit they make (aka margin).

 

If I work full time, I'm expected to do £30 of margin per hour to qualify for any bonus at all. The bonus I will recieve is 1% of total margin earned. But I will only get this, if the entire shop hits their margin target.

 

If I work full time and I hit £60 of margin per hour, I get 1% of all margin earned reguardless of whether the shop hit's it's target or not.

 

Also, there is a multiplyer for the entire stores bonus in the form of the test shop score which is based on an average of the last 3 test shop scores.

For example if I score:

Under 75% = Bonus drops to 0.50%

75% - 79% = Bonus remains at 1%

80+% = Add an aditional 1.25% to bonus (giving a 2.25% total bonus)

 

And the best way to get margin is.. that big list of previous "attachments" on the previous page from the CPR report.

 

So what happens if:

1: A member of staff fails a test shop, as this will be an obvious opening for bullying once managers start losing out on bonus.

2: When they raise the targets, which they've already started to do.

3: When they lower the margin on products, technicaly they could lower the margin the store sees on a product, still be making the same money, but make bonus harder to get

Edited by Renzokuken

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Hey, sorry to hijack but i am going to currys for a washing machine probably on tuesday

Now the one i want is nearly £10 cheaper at Dixons, will they pricematch if i ask?

The reason i am getting it at Currys is i need it urgently and can reserve and collect


I QUESTION THEREFORE I AM!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you! :p

 

 

I have been smoke-free for 4yrs

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I'm not sure why you seem to have such resentment for the new way of doing things, its far better then the old ways. The training is far better, and staff are being treated far better so I would say thats progress. Fives isn't just about getting sales out of customers, its also about making sure the customer leaves the store happy with their purchase, after all they will be spending a lot of money on a product that they will be using on an almost day-today basis.

If you've ever read a book by Barry Schwartz, the paradox of choice you would understand that many customers feel anxious about making even simple decisions on products because of the sheer choice. The five steps help to ensure the customer feels happy about the purchase and ensures they get the maximum out of it too. A HD TV needs the proper attachments so the customer gets the most out of their product.

The priority fives also ensure the store is running at its best, and (where possible) all items are properly stocked.

I'm not asking you to love fives but I would urge you to be more open minded to the advantages to both the consumer and the staff that work there. And after all I'm sure every customer knows that DSGi is a company that has shares and needs to make profit. At the end of the day the customers arn't stupid, if they don't want something they will tell you.

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Not sure if this belongs here or is already here but feel free to move/delete if needed.

 

Working at currys, I frequently find myself on the recieving end of a public battering due to customers not getting their own way. I'm happy to grin and bare the punishment, towards those of you who are truely in the wrong or those of you who see fit to abuse me. But for those of you in the right, let me assure you I take no pleasure in taking the side of a money hungry company who not only treats its customers like dirt, but it's employees too.

 

So I'm going to share with you the latest training scheme currys have just spent a good 5 million on, to give you some insight into how the salesman is going to pitch his goods to you and how you can see though some of the Bulls**t.

 

Ok, there latest training [problem].. I mean scheme, is called fives. It's trained to all staff via some darren brown style mind games and takes a full 3 day training session to learn. It consists of five "rooms" each containing a step the salesman should take to convert you from a browser to a buyer.

 

Room 1: The greeting, the salesman aproaches the potential customer and asks "what brings you to currys today". This serves to act as an open ended question (instantly denying you a yes or no answer and opening you up to further questioning") Also it allows them to use the match +1 technique, where they match your attitude then plus it by 1, aka if your angry they empathize, if your happy, they're happier. They will also attempt to mirror your body language.

 

Room 2: Engagement, the salesman will then ask you what your looking for, and ask you "are you a whateverhappens customer". When you proceed to ask what whateverhappens is s/he will then tell you that they'll inform you about what whateverhappens is, in a little while, leaving you pondering on it. They call this "planting the seed".

 

Room 3: The sale box, the salesman will then proceed to ask you if your replacing a product, and what you liked/hated/would change about the old one. He'll then proceed to tell you "what if I could offer you *insert item* at *insert price".

 

Room 4: The tailor, this room, enlarges on the previous room, explaning the reasons why you should buy the product, and why you'll almost certanly need those expensive premium leads on your TV. This part is all about getting those margin enhancing attachments. Then they'll ask you if you'd considered a "cash or monthly option" trying to convert you on to easiplan credit wherever possible.

 

Room 5: The happy customer, the salesman will then proceed to take you to a side area (for larger items), and explain to you what whateverhappens is. They'll attempt to make it sound like an exclusive club, and that it totaly outclasses the manufactorers warantee in everyway, they'll also try to overcome such objections as house insurance and credit card coverage, whilst emphasizing the lovely accidental damage cover and playing down the cost. They will then hand you your product with two hands if they can, and ask you if your happy with your purchase.

 

 

 

We were also told that once you have gotten 3 yes's from the customer, they're 100% going to buy from you.

 

Anyway hope this helps, and please bare in mind, we get mystery shopped by the company and are forced into using this.

 

 

Also, for objections to whateverhappens we are trained to overcome pretty much any objection you can think of, and even some you can't. The only thing they can't counter is someone giving a straight "No" answer. If they ask you why you don't want to take it, just reply that you would rather not talk about it.

 

As for getting discount off items, every store has a discount budget, if the store is over that budget you don't have a hope in hell of getting anything off an item. Also beware of salesmen who say you can have half price stands with your TV or money off premium cables. These are called WBW or When bought with deals. And usualy include taking an already overpriced item and using a pre-packaged deal on the computer to knock the price down, these deals are not true discounts because the item is already overpriced to begin with and the discount does not come off the stores target (I.E: Cheap PCLine laptop bags going from £40 to £19.99 wbw). The only chance you have of getting discount is by taking out a whateverhappens insurance plan, or easiplan credit and then bargining after the salesman knows your going to take them, as no store cares about sales without either of these on. In the case of whateverhappens, the monthly option can be canceled by canceling a direct debit at your bank, so you could potentialy get discount for free if you play the salesman, most shops will tell you that you may only cancel it after 3 months. This is a lie and they tell you this because it registers on the stores profit and loss after 3 months. Also remember, if a store has no discount to play with, you will get nothing reguardless of what you take.

 

Doesnt sound that much different to when I was training as a sales supervisor for Currys. I had a pretty damn good team. I left after a year because I didnt like trying to talk people into buying extended warranties - back then that was the thing we were told to do.

 

So if you dont like the job - dont stay.


Magna res est vocis et silentii temperamentum

 

The great thing is to know when to speak and when to keep quiet.

 

(Seneca the Younger (attributed), Proverbs, 74)

 

 

Speech is given to many; intelligence to few - but if its well said, I said it!

:p

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