Hello & help!

[larry650]

Hi everyone ,

I'm a little overwhelmed by all the advice available here..

.. There are so many suitable threads for this one,

I thought I could post here and hopefully a very friendly admin could move it to the right place.

 

 

I'd really appreciate any advice or suggestions on what I should do, I was going to appeal via the channels printed on the back of the ticket.....

 

Here is my predicament:

I got a parking fine yesterday,

£50, in an NCP car park in Brighton,

after parking my bike where the ncp attendant told me to park it!

 

They stitched me up on:

 

Violation 6 "Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay space"

Violation 7 "Parked causing an obstruction or hindrance"

Violation 15 "Parked not in accordance to signage displayed"

 

 

 

Have I missed something?

The bike is well inside the white line,

the ticket machines,

fire extinguishers

and even the rubbish bin can be reached easily

and there is not a single sign advising motorcyclists how to park.....

 

Interestingly, I didn't get stitched up for

violation 1 - "Parked in a restricted area in a car par" or

violation 10 - "Parked on or within a no parking area"

 

Can someone tell me what I've done wrong, please, and what I should do next?

Many thanks in advance for your help.....

 

Larry

Edited February 27, 2009 by larry650
Changed the title to a more relevant one.

[crem]

Is it an NCP private car park or a council car park operated by NCP on their behalf?

 

If it is a council car park and therefore an official PCN then it is something that needs dealing with correctly and many on here will be able to offer advise on it.

 

If it is a private PPC "invoice" then the best thing to do with it is place it carefully in a drawer along with the further rubbish they will no doubt send you.

[larry650]

Hi

 

As far as I can tell, it's a private NCP car park....

 

How can I find out for sure?

 

What's a "private PPC "invoice""?

 

Thanks thanks

[Tony P]

As far as I can tell, it's a private NCP car park....

How can I find out for sure?

What's a "private PPC "invoice""?

 

PPC = Private Parking Contractor.

 

If possible scan the ticket and post it here but blank out identifying stuff like Ticket No., Vehicle No., date, time etc.

Then someone will be able to help you better.

 

Maybe change the thread title to "NCP Ticket" or similar, to make it more specific to the experts here.

[crem]

If it is an official council PCN (Penalty Charge Notice) then the PCN will clearly show at the top which council issued it. If, as is more likely, it was issued by a PPC (Private Parking Company) then they are not allowed to issue "penalties" at all, although they always try to make their "invoice" look like a council PCN to scare you into paying.

 

For a PPC invoice, do not ring them, or write to them and absolutely do not send them any money!

[larry650]

Hi guys, thanks for your help so far....

 

Here is the scan of the ticket i was unfairly given:

 

You sound very confident that I can ignore this/get away without paying.... I've never done this before, what's the process? What will happen next if I do choose to ignore it?

 

Thanks a bunch!

[Al27]

You will receive 4 or 5 increasingly threatening letters before they give up and go away.

 

Private companies have no powers to issue fines (and even less power to accuse you of an 'offence' - somehting reserved for the police).

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them

[larry650]

Hi Guys, as predicted I received the first letter regarding this charge:

 

 

Is this as you predicted? Has anyone had this before?

 

Interestingly it was sent to my previous address and forwarded on to me....

I was told to not send them anything, but maybe it would be worth sending it back marked "no longer at this address"?

[boxmorg]

I got an NCP "fine" today for parking in a liesure centre car park whilst I nipped to the shopping centre next door. (there is no definable boundary between the two sites) and I did have my lunch in the leisure centre before returning to my car and finding the ticket(I have a reciept from the centre)

 

I am a worrier by nature, and having read all the stuff on here, I dont know whether to just send them the £50 with an explanation and an appeal, or to be brave and last it out.

 

I know people are saying ignore it, but I really cant afford to pay£100 plus any legal/bailiff costs.

 

what should I do????

[havinastella]

I got an NCP "fine" today for parking in a liesure centre car park whilst I nipped to the shopping centre next door. (there is no definable boundary between the two sites) and I did have my lunch in the leisure centre before returning to my car and finding the ticket(I have a reciept from the centre)

 

I am a worrier by nature, and having read all the stuff on here, I dont know whether to just send them the £50 with an explanation and an appeal, or to be brave and last it out.

 

I know people are saying ignore it, but I really cant afford to pay£100 plus any legal/bailiff costs.

 

what should I do????

 

 

Ignore it!

[lamma]

"I dont know whether to just send them the £50 with an explanation and an appeal," Good grief no don't so that !! read the stickies. ignore NCP. post up pictures of their invoice - suitably washed of personal details - to get it 'critiqued'

[boxmorg]

thanks for that I cannot scan it up as I dont have a scanner, but basically it says that if payment is not received in 14 days the PCN will be passed to our recovery department who will apply to DVLA for registered keeper details. If after 28 days from PCN issue payment is still not received an addiotional charge of up to £50 will be added to the full charge. Payment will then be pursued through the courts.

 

On the front it says first noted 11-54 time issued 12-11

 

and then by "offence" parked and left site

[lamma]

digital camera ? ? usual NCP rubbish text by the sound of it.

[Vermillion]

Well, I have followed advice and ignored the invoices from a dodgy PPC - Carpark Management Ltd, who sent me 4 demands to pay an invoice which was no where near so 'professional looking' as NCPs. My case is now being 'dealt' with by Rossendale Collect from whom I have had 2 letters. Do I just ignore these as well? I have been pretty proactive about passing all info on to powers that be but I'm wondering just when they will give up. OK, invoice not enforceable, some people seem to think it is. You will have to stay tough.

[lamma]

they will give up soon. they play a percentage game and have already spent enough with no results. Its a mail based [problem] - treat it as such.

[Vermillion]

Got that Lamma. Good luck boxmorg. Just out of curiousity have you seen the attendant who gave you the advice in the first place? His training may not have been up to scratch?

[crem]

If after 28 days from PCN issue payment is still not received an addiotional charge of up to £50 will be added to the full charge. Payment will then be pursued through the courts.

 

On the front it says first noted 11-54 time issued 12-11

 

and then by "offence" parked and left site

 

Does it definately say the word "offence" to indicate what your transgression was? If it does, you can be sure they will not go near a court to try and make their claim for your "offence" stick because only councils/police can accuse you of an offence/contravention.

[Northern_Lass]

I am a worrier by nature, and having read all the stuff on here, I dont know whether to just send them the £50 with an explanation and an appeal, or to be brave and last it out.

 

I am a worrier by nature too - but also principled and stubborn so although after my appeals were turned down (i mean really, what was I expecting after trying to appeal to the people who were demanding my money?!) I turned to this site. After reading loads and getting advice it made me more determined not to pay and stand my ground. I have written a 'cease and desist' letter from the templates on here and even if they write to me again, it wont make a jot of difference. They are not getting my money for something i didnt do!! IF it goes to debt collection then their letters can go in the same drawer too.

 

I showed someone the 'evidence pics' and i'm now fully confident that even if it went to court they wouldnt win. The parking attendent shot himself in the foot taking the pics of the ticket on the screen as it proves I wasnt obstructing (thats what they ticketed me for!)

 

Anyway, my advice, for what its worth is stop worrying, if you get letters there are plenty of brilliant peole on here ready to give advice and support you. I just wish more people didnt pay up!!

 

Good luck

[sameagle]

I've just read another thread which is about two threads in front of this one, "Wakefield Cathedral Park", I think.

 

In that one it was stated that no permission is required to take photographs in a public place, and I know this to be true, because I looked into it about 5 or 6 years ago, but not for Car Parking, may I say.

 

Then I come to this thread and I find this written, "The parking attendent shot himself in the foot taking the pics of the ticket on the screen as it proves I wasnt obstructing" etc etc.

 

If you can take pics in a public place, you cannot take them in a private place, without, presumably, the permish of the owner of the place, and the owner of the subject of the photo.

 

So, although I realise that all these PPC's are spouting crap, if they were to go to court, am I correct in assuming that they could not use the pics?

 

Sam the Eagle

[crem]

c etc.

 

If you can take pics in a public place, you cannot take them in a private place, without, presumably, the permish of the owner of the place, and the owner of the subject of the photo.

 

So, although I realise that all these PPC's are spouting crap, if they were to go to court, am I correct in assuming that they could not use the pics?

 

As it is a private car park, I am sure you can presume the PPC has the authority of the car park owner to take pics in that "private place". Also, I doubt that the "owner of the subject" needs to give permission to take a photo of an object. If they were intentionally taking a picture of the driver, then I think that would be a different matter.

[larry650]

I'm now on my 5th increasingly threatening letter ('Notice of intended legal action' from a solicitor). Just out of interest, if these threats were genuine, for example, would it go to court or would the bailiffs come straight round? What would the process be?

[RichardM]

Bailiffs can only act on the instructions of a court, which will only take place AFTER

 

a) the PPC has gone through the whole process of submitting a claim to the court

b) you have been very silly in not providing the sort of defence to their claim that the members of this group would be happy to provide you

c) You lose the court case

d) You refuse to pay the settlement as instructed by the court

e) The PPC goes back to court to obtain a judgement against you.

 

Of course, the PPC would rahter you believe that they can send the boys round to take your property at the drop of a hat.

 

In reality, it would take at least a year to go through this process and you would have ample opportunity to present your case, not to their so called appeals service, but to a truly impartial judge.

[larry650]

Thanks pal

 

I took the advice from members on here and just ignored all of their correspondence. They are sending the letters to my previous address, throughout the process I've considered posting the letters back marked simply 'no longer at this residence'... I guess it makes more sense to just ignore them. Hopefully they'll give up soon.

[letshelp]

but to a truly impartial judge.

Such a thing actually exists?

regards

[larry650]

Hello all,

 

I just wanted to upload all the letters I've had so far. In case anyone was interested in the progress, but also it would be great to get some more feedback and/or advice.

 

I was told in the beginning that they would send 4-5 increasingly threatening letters before giving up and going away, well I've now received 5. I have not contacted them or sent anything (as advised), they are still sending to my previous address.

 

 

I remain confident, as I was told to park where I parked and my photos of my bike contradict the original "violations". But it would still be nice to get some reassurance from some of the friendly, helpful people who use this site.......

 

Many thanks in advance