Lloyds Platinum Card

[prelude2a]

Hey all,

I have a LLoyds Platiunum card, I can't afford to pay it back, and I have gone through all the National Debtline advice on making offers of token payments etc and asking for interest and charges to be stopped and for the debt to be treated sympathetically and positively.

 

Lloyds have repeatedly refused my offers of payment and have pursued the line of 'pay up or else' and have since applied defaults to my account.

 

Last letter I sent them was a CCA request dated September 1st to which I received no reply.

 

Just got a letter this morning from MHA collections 'on behalf of LLoyds TSB' saying I must pay them or they will instigate court proceedings.

 

Should I send them this letter

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/161641-hi-everyone-newbie-any.html#post1779093

 

or is there a better approach?

 

Cheers

[Lula]

Hi, yes, by all means send them the letter, and also send Lloyds this letter (marked N), DO NOT use your normal signature to sign it, better to print your name and enclose a £1 fee by way of postal order, whilst you are waiting for all that I would have a good read of the forum and gather information to help yourself do this, if it transpires that they do not have a properly executed agreement, then the ball really is in your court, you can set the amount you want to pay.

[gizmo111]

For signing letters read here for some good tips.

 

If you have sent you income and expenditure, and can only afford token payments at present then it is not a case of them accepting your offer, rather a case of that is all they are going to get. Make the payments you offered regardless of what they threat.

It usually takes a while before they stop interest, as they will try to get higher payments out of you in the interim, and it is also unlikely they will not default you.

[prelude2a]

Hi All,

Cheeky beggars that they are, they haven't responded to my CCA request, however, they have (finally after around 6 months) sent me a letter saying they will accept my offer of payment of £2 per month for 6 months and have sent me a paying in book. Funny, because back in July they told me they could not accept my offer. Also, the offer was for £1 per month, not £2.

I'm not sure how to proceed as they still haven't complied with my CCA request, and frankly I'm not inclined to pay them anything until they prove that I have to.

Can someone advise?

Edited December 30, 2008 by prelude2a
typo

[cerberusalert]

If the haven't supplied you with the CCA they are in default and cannot pursue the debt because it is now in dispute.

[prelude2a]

So, should I wite to them informing they are still in default of my cca, or just ignore them?

And would ignoring them count as a new default on the £2 per month 'agreement' that they have sent me a paying in book for?

[cerberusalert]

Send the idiots the following;

 

In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letters of xx/xx/xx and xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

 

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.

 

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[prelude2a]

Thanks cerberusalert, I will keep you posted.

[prelude2a]

Today Lloyds sent me a tree, well maybe half a tree.... It was a LOT of paper anyway. In amongst it was the attached application form which I presume they are saying is my agreement.

 

Am I right in my thinking that it isn't worth the paper it is written on?

 

(Page two was stapled to page one and so therefore is not a legal part of the page I signed?)

LloydsMC_CCA1.pdf

LloydsMC_CCA2.pdf

[prelude2a]

bump

[cerberusalert]

I would say that they have sent you an application form not an agreement, but someone will come along soon & verify.

[prelude2a]

Hi guys - Update time! Its been a while

 

Since my last post I've been down the usual road of receiving letters from DCA's, ignoring them, getting more threatening letters, ignoring them, and then finally responding to final demands by sending the 'this account is in dispute, please return it to lloyds so they can resolve the dispute' type letters.

 

Finally I received the letters attached below from Lloyds (btw, how do I do in-line attachments?)

They have sent me another copy of the application form (as attached to my previous post) (this time its on both sides of the same piece of paper) and also a letter saying that this is them fulfilling their obligations under the cca. They have also sent me some Ts and C's which are obviously added later.

 

I've been reading through N.P.'s mammoth thread and was wondering if something along the lines of a modified version of pt2537's letter might be appropriate?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/112783-lloyds-tsb-mastercard-9.html#post1460670

 

Or should I just not reply for the moment and wait till they threaten me again?

 

Interestingly they have also sent me a statement dated december 2008 which shows a zero balance. Does this mean they have written off the debt?

 

Looks like summers finally here! What am I doing inside on a bank holiday monday? Oh yes, dealing with the Banks.... :-|

letter.pdf

t+c.pdf

[prelude2a]

or maybe this one that I've just spotted??

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/112783-lloyds-tsb-mastercard-3.html#post1298307

[prelude2a]

bump

[prelude2a]

bump

[prelude2a]

anyone?

[Fred Bassett]

Hi Prelude,

 

There's something a bit odd about those Ts & Cs. It doesn't say how much you will be charged for missed payments etc. and it isn't dated - at least, not from what I can see.

 

It seems that the Banks are taking this line - they send you a copy of any old crap and claim that they've met their obligations. Maybe so, but it doesn't make the whole thing any more enforceable.

 

Hang on in there until somebody with a bit more knowledgable than me comes along.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Edited June 4, 2009 by Fred Bassett

[Curlyben]

The T&C's are irrelevant as the prescribed terms MUST be within the signature document.

 

This is taken from another thread;

Under SI 1983/1553 the prescribed terms MUST be within the signature document to be valid, having them on a seperate sheet headed T&C or similar ISN'T acceptable.

SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms MUST be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6)

This applies to all agreements pre May 2005.

So basically this is unenforceable, under 127(3).

 

Just to add to my comments re terms witin signature doc.

This was covered off in Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299

 

Schedule 1 to the 1983 Regulations sets out the "information to be contained in documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements". Some of this information mirrors the terms prescribed by Sch 6, but some does not. Contrasting the provisions of the two schedules the Judge said

33 In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated.

As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement. More detailed requirements, which are designed to ensure that the debtor is made aware, so far as possible, of specified information (including information contained in the minimum terms) are to be found in Schedule 1.

 

Overall this is for toffee, so they simply need telling so.

It's missing ALL of the prescribed terms and as such would make a good paper airplane.

[prelude2a]

Thanks, I didn't respond to them for a while and have just received a letter from Allied International Credit offering me a 50% discount to clear the account - So I'm guessing they know they've not got a leg to stand on.

 

They do however make the usual threat of referral to the "Litigation Dept" if I don't pay them.

 

Is there a letter out there that tells them the thing the purport to be my agreement is worthless? I don't feel particularly confident about writing one myself. Or maybe I should just ignore them a bit more....

 

(perhaps the letter linked to in my post #13 of this thread?)

Edited July 19, 2009 by prelude2a
Addendum

[babybear39]

Did they threaten you with Sechiari, Clerk & Mitchell (****) ?

[prelude2a]

Yeah, SCM way back in Sept 2008, "Formal demand for payment else we'll take you to court"

 

Then it went to MHA, then to AIC (allied international credit) then I got the snotty letter from Lloyds (as above) saying that what they had sent me is a true copy of my agreement and they wouldn't enter into any further discussion on the matter, and then back to AIC again now.

[babybear39]

Weird that **** have dropped the bone :S They usually go for the jugular and not farm it out.

[prelude2a]

I can only assume they are trying to pull a fast one?

 

The question remains, is the 'application form' they sent me

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/166616-lloyds-platinum-card.html#post1922447

 

a valid agreement (I suspect it isn't but I'd really like confirmation) and will this letter

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/112783-lloyds-tsb-mastercard-3.html#post1298307

 

send them running for the hills?

[babybear39]

The T&Cs could be related to anything so I personally agree with you that the application is not a CCA.

 

Give pt's letter a go.

[prelude2a]

I should point out that in a later copy they sent me of the application form page one and page two (with the T&Cs) from http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post1922447

were on two sides of the same piece of paper.

Does that make any difference?

I don't fully understand what has to be included on the agreement.

Do the required terms have to be on page one, or just on the same sheet of paper? (ie they could be the other side)

What terms are missing from mine?

 

Sorry if I'm beng a bit dense....