Citi Cards CCA reply!

[getitsorted]

Hi

I woud just like a bit of advice as to how I respond to a letter from citi cards!

I requested a CCA for my husband and this is what they have sent back. I wil have to type it as i haven't got access to a scanner today.

 

Dear Mr X

Re: Acc number

 

Thankyou for your recent request for information. We regret to inform you that section 78 CCA 1974 does not require CitiFinancial to provide you with a copy of the executed agreement as you appear to believe. It requires CitiFinancial to provide you with a "copy of the executed agreement" as defined by the Consumer Credit ( Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. The obligation to provide you with that document is fulfilled by the provision of the terms and conditions, which are supplied to customers upon reissue or issue of their card, being printed on the card carrier. We enclose a copy of the terms and conditions for your account. This is an industry standard document and conforms to the Regulations. We set out below a summary of the same for your information.

 

180 Power to prescribe form etc of copies

(1) Regulations may be made as to the form and content of documents to be issued as copies of any executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in this Act, and may in particular -

(a) require specified information to be included in the prescribed manner in any copy, and contain requirements to ensure thats such information is clearly brought to the attention of a reader of the copy;

(b) authorise the omission from a copy of certain material contained in the original, or the inclusion of such material in condensed form.

 

The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 make it clear at Reg 3 that the "copy executed agreement" is not required to be an exact replica of the original agreement per se but an extract since it is allowed to omit certain information including any signature box, signature, or date of signature.

 

Should you have any questions please fell free to cal me on 0800 xxx xxx, or write to me at :

 

 

 

Yours sincerely

Data Request Team

 

 

 

I don't totally understand it, but what i gather is they don't have to send me a true copy of the original agreement, and they haven't, they have just sent generic terms with the above letter, not tome specifically.

 

I also take this to mean that they DON'T HAVE A TRUE COPY as if they did they would just send that wouldn't they?

 

Any help as to what i write back? I've had a look around and not seen anything similar on the threads.

 

GIS

[42man]

Edit this and send recorded -

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[getitsorted]

WOW!

Thanks a lot for the the rapid response! That looks great! I will send it off tomorrow!

 

GIS

[Duffers Mum]

I received the same rubbish from Citi, they then transferred my account to 1st Cretins, who issued a Statutory Demand which I have just had set aside and costs awared. However according to 1st Cretins they note they are receiving payments on my account via their client - which is absolute rubbish as I haven't paid anything in ages.

 

Send the letter 42Man suggests and see what transpires.

 

Good luck