Jump to content


Egg CCA - Enforceable?


thereisanotherway
 Share

style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4788 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi Everyone,

Egg have replied to my CCA request with the following - it looks pretty official.

I would be grateful if someone could have a look to check if it's the real deal!

Thanks for your time:)

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq154/thereisanotherway/egg1.jpg

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq154/thereisanotherway/egg2-1.jpg

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq154/thereisanotherway/egg3-1.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

the last image is a screen dump, reading the url for the webpage it looks like the current terms and conditions and not the ones you signed up for.

 

plus i'd pick apart the url shown and see if it includes your acc number or anything that attaches it to you.

 

Dont want to supply false hope tho, egg cca seem to be very watertight. if its any consolation i'm iv'e recently cca'd egg via moorcroft and am still waiting

it wasn't broke when i had it

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Just going by another thread, is there not a distinction between the requirements of a pre-2004 CCA and a post-2004 CCA? I note that the openng page of yours says 2003.

Bank and credit card reclaims - £9,806

Sainsburys CCA non-compliance with FOS;

Natwest reclaim of £340 in progress;

Egg credit card reclaim in progress

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi to everyone and thanks for your comments/questions. Sorry I have been a bit too snowed under to give this my full attention (so many CCA's so little time;)).

 

I've been trying to work it out - is there anywhere you can point me to with regards to the difference between pre 2004 agreements?

 

The 'screen dump' contains nothing specific to my account as far as I can tell and on the pages that deal with interest rates, it has 'for those that apply bet. 1/7/03 & 31/7/03', but it also goes on to list charges for those who 'applied' between various other earlier dates, in sections back to 2002.

 

Having never seen a real CCA, does anyone know if this is normal? As I don't quite understand why past rates would/should be included in 'my' CCA.

 

No actual credit limit mentioned as they still had credit checking to do -which makes me wonder why they would sign the agreement when;

 

"this agreement will only be binding on us when we have completed and are satisfied with our final checks and other searches and you have signed and returned the credit agreement to us"

 

yet it appears to have been signed before I signed (if I did sign an official agreement, that is) not sure where the line in their signature box comes from as it doesn't seem to correspond with any fold on the other copied page - could their signature be from somewhere else? (sorry if this question seems a bit muddled)

 

Clutching at straws, but the return address also states 'new application'

 

Would love to hear your suggestions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

the agreement in post #1 is not enforceable for the reasons given - it doesn't have your signature and the prescribed terms in the same document. The prescribed terms are on the screen dump :rolleyes:

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

the agreement in post #1 is not enforceable for the reasons given - it doesn't have your signature and the prescribed terms in the same document. The prescribed terms are on the screen dump :rolleyes:

 

can you explain a bit more steven4064

 

My agreement is almost the same. whats missing from doc1 to make it unenforceable?

 

thanks in advance

it wasn't broke when i had it

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another thing that might help is that it states "limit" only when referring to the credit limit (which may be determined from time to time) it must state the words "credit Limit" to comply with the Act. This is something that has been picked up on other threads by Pt, and most of the older Egg agreements (my own included) seem to be worded in this way. Magda

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
the agreement in post #1 is not enforceable for the reasons given - it doesn't have your signature and the prescribed terms in the same document. The prescribed terms are on the screen dump :rolleyes:

 

I thought the prescribed terms where those shown in the first image, i.e. amount of credit, interest, and payment terms - not the complete terms and conditions. If that is the case, then it seems Egg have the prescribed terms in the right place, although having a signature on a separate page may be a no no.

 

It seems all lenders put their full terms and conditions in separate documents and refer to them. But are those full Ts & Cs part of the "prescribed terms" as defined in the Consumer Credit Act? If so, then it would indicate that just about every lender has cocked up their agreements as I've never seen any lender put them anywhere else but as a separate document, i.e. not within the four corners.

I wonder if MBNA are the new Enron :roll:

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the prescribed terms where those shown in the first image, i.e. amount of credit, interest, and payment terms - not the complete terms and conditions. If that is the case, then it seems Egg have the prescribed terms in the right place, although having a signature on a separate page may be a no no.

 

It seems all lenders put their full terms and conditions in separate documents and refer to them. But are those full Ts & Cs part of the "prescribed terms" as defined in the Consumer Credit Act? If so, then it would indicate that just about every lender has cocked up their agreements as I've never seen any lender put them anywhere else but as a separate document, i.e. not within the four corners.

You are right - the prescribed terms are the 3 you identify and are on page 1. To be enforceable, there must be on the same document as the signature. If pages 1 and 2 are back and front of the same page, then it would be enforceable. However, the way it is printed with the egg logo on both sheets would indicate (to me at least) that these are 2 seperate pages.

 

The remainder of the terms and conditions may be on a completely different document.

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed there is nothing to prove they are part of the same document.

 

I have one from MBNA (won't go into it here except to compare against Egg) which has the prescribed terms photocopied on the back of what is basically an application form, but nothing ties them together and there isn't even a signature panel for MBNA to sign, only for me to sign the application. So I guess that would also indicate that these agreements are less than properly executed!

 

Oh, and I love the way Egg can't even be bothered to send a proper terms and conditions document out, they just do screen dumps of pages on their web site. They have become a very lazy company. I remember when their customer services department was extremely helpful and appeared to be staffed by decent people, but now they are just another branch of the mighty Sh***yCorp.

I wonder if MBNA are the new Enron :roll:

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed there is nothing to prove they are part of the same document.

 

I have one from MBNA (won't go into it here except to compare against Egg) which has the prescribed terms photocopied on the back of what is basically an application form, but nothing ties them together and there isn't even a signature panel for MBNA to sign, only for me to sign the application. So I guess that would also indicate that these agreements are less than properly executed!

 

Oh, and I love the way Egg can't even be bothered to send a proper terms and conditions document out, they just do screen dumps of pages on their web site. They have become a very lazy company. I remember when their customer services department was extremely helpful and appeared to be staffed by decent people, but now they are just another branch of the mighty Sh***yCorp.

 

Egg has informed me (via Moorcroft) that I can obtain the T&cs for the account on their web site! I have informed them that they have to be the original t&c's not the current ones, but Moorcroft informed me that Egg's legal team has confirmed they do not need to do anything more, other than to direct people to their website, which is complete rubbish. I wrote to Egg asking for confirmation that they hold a copy of the orignal agreement, as what they have sent me is two page document with no apparent link. I also pointed out that the prescribed terms are incorrect as it states on the agreement 'limit' only and not 'credit limit' which apparently it must do. They have totally ignored all of my correspondence and have informed Moorcroft to continue litigation. I rang Moorcroft today to check they had received my latest correspondence and they advised me that the only thing left to do then is to take me to court. So, I told them to go ahead. Wonder if they will oblige? Magda

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Magda,

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

You need to check the URL (see post #2), if it has nothing specific to your account, then it's just a screen dump!

 

Can anyone suggest a way forward with this? So many of us seem to be in the same Egg cup!

 

Many thanks, thereisanotherway, the Egg agreements do seem a bit more complicated than normal don't they, at first everyone said they were definitely enforceable, although certain cracks now seem to appearing in them, such as the credit limit issue, where they have only mentioned the limit. Not sure how any of us would get on though if it did go to court, magda

Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks, thereisanotherway, the Egg agreements do seem a bit more complicated than normal don't they, at first everyone said they were definitely enforceable, although certain cracks now seem to appearing in them, such as the credit limit issue, where they have only mentioned the limit. Not sure how any of us would get on though if it did go to court, magda

 

I would be a bit warey of going to court on minimal technicalities like a single word missing. Although the Consumer Credit Act is rather strict, courts often go on the spirit of the law rather than the strict letter of the law, a single missing word may not be enough to find an agreement unenforceable.

 

If the agreement is in the wrong format, missing prescribed terms, has multiple pages that cannot be proven to be part of the same document, and similar failings then it is more likely IMO that the courts could find them unenforceable. But as I said, a single missing word is a bit of a thin legal argument.

 

I have Egg and MBNA cards. Although I will fight MBNA due to their completely shoddy CCAs, I am not going to challenge the Egg one which is the same as Thereisanotherway's. Unless someone can point to a big hole in the Egg CCA that is! ;-)

I wonder if MBNA are the new Enron :roll:

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be a bit warey of going to court on minimal technicalities like a single word missing. Although the Consumer Credit Act is rather strict, courts often go on the spirit of the law rather than the strict letter of the law, a single missing word may not be enough to find an agreement unenforceable.

 

If the agreement is in the wrong format, missing prescribed terms, has multiple pages that cannot be proven to be part of the same document, and similar failings then it is more likely IMO that the courts could find them unenforceable. But as I said, a single missing word is a bit of a thin legal argument.

 

I have Egg and MBNA cards. Although I will fight MBNA due to their completely shoddy CCAs, I am not going to challenge the Egg one which is the same as Thereisanotherway's. Unless someone can point to a big hole in the Egg CCA that is! ;-)

 

You are probably right. Although I have asked Egg to confirm that the two pages of the agreement they sent are linked and they have refused to answer, or to confirm whether they have an original agreement in their possession, and of course, they don't provide any t&c's either. It's very difficult to get any answers where Egg are concerned as they ignore any correspondence sent to them, but continue to pursue the debt. Magda

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Magda

 

AFAIK, if any party intends to bring legal proceedings against another, they must disclose any and all evidence their case is reliant upon. This has been mentioned in one way or another in various threads.

 

Basically, if they wanted to take you to court to enforce the agreement, and if their argument is that all of the pages constitute the same document and they can prove it, they must disclose that proof to you in good time before any hearing. In addition, if they refuse to disclose and then file for a hearing just before they give you that proof, then they could be considered to be wasting the courts time as they issue could have been dealt with before the court was asked to intervene.

 

I am no legal expert so I could well be wrong, but I've heard the above many times and it also makes sense (then again, law doesn't always make sense!!).

I wonder if MBNA are the new Enron :roll:

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Magda

 

AFAIK, if any party intends to bring legal proceedings against another, they must disclose any and all evidence their case is reliant upon. This has been mentioned in one way or another in various threads.

 

Basically, if they wanted to take you to court to enforce the agreement, and if their argument is that all of the pages constitute the same document and they can prove it, they must disclose that proof to you in good time before any hearing. In addition, if they refuse to disclose and then file for a hearing just before they give you that proof, then they could be considered to be wasting the courts time as they issue could have been dealt with before the court was asked to intervene.

 

I am no legal expert so I could well be wrong, but I've heard the above many times and it also makes sense (then again, law doesn't always make sense!!).

 

Hi rbos, thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated. I think we are all in the same boat with these agreements, and as you say, until we have something really concrete to go on, it's probably best not to rock the boat. Thanks, Magda

Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...