Natwest/rbs/triton mint creditcard debt

[davey77]

I agree, doesn't sound much like a proper agreement from what you have described.

[olliepup]

Thanks for replies!

 

That letter looks a good one!

 

Just looked at the application form, no point scanning it as it's barely readable!

 

It says on the top, Application for Natwest Mastercard.

 

I can see it has my old address, place of work, a blank section for secondary card holder, my sig at the bottom, a banks stamp, but there is not enough room to put all the terms and conditions on the size of this aplication form, fits easily into A4 sheet.

 

Any small writing looks like arabic the copy is so bad and small.

 

They sent a separate sheet with all the terms and conditions but that is just a copy with no signatures whatsoever!

 

As it's unreadable should i just send that letter?

 

Do you ever get terms etc on application forms?

 

Cheers.

[davey77]

Thanks for replies!

 

That letter looks a good one!

I would use that letter then (link by Hillards)

 

Just looked at the application form, no point scanning it as it's barely readable!

 

It says on the top, Application for NatWest Mastercard.

Pre-contractual application for credit then and not a properly executed agreement

 

I can see it has my old address, place of work, a blank section for secondary card holder, my sig at the bottom, a banks stamp, but there is not enough room to put all the terms and conditions on the size of this aplication form, fits easily into A4 sheet.

 

Any small writing looks like arabic the copy is so bad and small.

illedgible and therefore not fulfilled your request

 

They sent a separate sheet with all the terms and conditions but that is just a copy with no signatures whatsoever!

T&Cs wouldn't have the signature. Sigs should be on the 'Agreement' itself although T&Cs should be linked to the Agreement.

 

As it's unreadable should i just send that letter?

 

Do you ever get terms etc on application forms?

More to the point an Application for Credit is not an Agreement. You should have the Prescribed Terms on an Agreement. T&Cs though should be applicable to the date of application

 

Cheers.

 

Send the letter and adapt it to your needs. Pointing out the illegibility of what they have sent

[olliepup]

Cheers Davey, i'll get the letter adjusted and sent, i will make a mention of the fact it can't be read.

 

Be interesting to see what they say, do any credit cards have a correct and legal credit agreement once it's been signed for?

 

So if it went to court the judge doesn't see a scabby application as an agreement?

 

They mentioned the debt had not been sold on and to contact Triton about the payments.

 

I'm prob better sending my letter to Natwest or just let Triton pass it on to them?

 

Many thanks again.

[underdog13]

This just beggars belief -RBS truly do believe they are above the law. Their arrogance is breath taking.

 

Definately get that complaint in to the ICO!

[olliepup]

Must get on with this, with xmas etc haven't got round to it yet, been busy fighting with relation Triton!

[olliepup]

Hi all, just a update and a new DCA for they account!

 

I haven't sent the letter yet that Hillards recommended due to christmas and new year, but i was going to get round to it as NatWest sent the application form through that was unreadable and told me to contact Triton.

 

So today i receive a letter from Westcot DCA saying they are now instructed giving me till the 19th to pay etc or the following will happen like remove my possesions etc.

 

So should i send the recommended letter to Westcot and add in the account is in dispute as Natwest didn't comply by sending a application form for a credit consumer agreement?

 

So who are Westcot? Are they another arm of RBS or have they sold this debt on? And if they have why have they?

 

Cheers Olliepup.

[hillards]

Hi all, just a update and a new DCA for they account!

 

I haven't sent the letter yet that Hillards recommended due to christmas and new year, but i was going to get round to it as NatWest sent the application form through that was unreadable and told me to contact Triton.

 

So today i receive a letter from Westcot DCA saying they are now instructed giving me till the 19th to pay etc or the following will happen like remove my possesions etc.

 

So should i send the recommended letter to Westcot and add in the account is in dispute as Natwest didn't comply by sending a application form for a credit consumer agreement?

 

So who are Westcot? Are they another arm of RBS or have they sold this debt on? And if they have why have they?

 

Cheers Olliepup.

 

The chance to block further action was by sending the letter mentioned before. That would have prevented the account being transferred to yet another DCA, which is what they have done.

 

Westcot will start the bully boy tactics all over again. But, no point doing a CCA request to them, as the people now chasing the account, as it has already been shown that the 'document' supplied is invalid.

 

I'm a bit fuzzy today, thanks to an awful bout of flu, but recall someone having a suitable letter to tell the new DCA where to go as the matter is still considered to be in dispute.

[olliepup]

Yeah i haven't got printing facilities here and the wife has been off work due to xmas close down.

 

So what are westcot like to deal with?

[davey77]

Wescot generally ignore everything you send but i've seen them packing a long time back:

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/Wescott.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/Wescot18jan.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/1copy.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/Halifax.jpg

 

Obviously no Court Action was ever started by Wescot.

[DocH]

Yeah i haven't got printing facilities here and the wife has been off work due to xmas close down.

 

So what are westcot like to deal with?

 

Pussycats compared to some.

 

This is the letter hills was referring to:

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Your Reference:

Client reference:

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to you, as it is in dispute with ***DCA*** and has been since ***Date*** Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

As ***DCA*** is now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines and s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to ***DCA*** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as ***DCA*** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If ***DCA***chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Just amend to suit for your information and situation

[olliepup]

Thanks for the replies,

 

Cheers for the letter, i sent a similar letter saying the account is in dispute and the creditor has complied with CCA request in producing an un readable application form.

 

There was also alot of other info which was in the letter, kind of similar to the one i should of sent Natwest before they past it on, it's fairly strong!

 

I did receive a letter from them saying i'm ex directory so they can't phone me so i should contact them, well they will be reading my letter today!

 

Be interested in hearing their reply!

 

If i get some rubbish back i'll amend the letter above to suit and send them that also!

[davey77]

In my experience, there is only one letter that prevents an OC from passing the account from one DCA to the next and it's that which precedes an N1 Court form which you then follow through with.

 

In the eyes of the original creditor: there is never a dispute, you owe the money, they will not stop contacting you requesting payment and they will not stop farming the account out to various (lame, aggressive and/or, incompetent) DCAs time and time again.

 

You may get lucky with a carefully worded letter but it will only delay the inevitable passing of the account later down the line.

 

The only way to stop DCA involvement is a Court summons to the OC.

Edited February 4, 2009 by davey77

[Rayne]

now theres an idea....

[olliepup]

Well i'm still waiting for a reply from wescot, if i took Natwest to court and they suddenly pulled a agreement out of thin air that would end up costing me alot of money in court costs??

[hillards]

Well i'm still waiting for a reply from wescot, if i took NatWest to court and they suddenly pulled a agreement out of thin air that would end up costing me alot of money in court costs??

 

You could show that you have made a legal request for the document already, and the matter failed to be complied with in the time limit allowed. This knocks that argument out of the window as long as you've made it quite clear to the company concerned.

 

I often point people to Ida's letter, further back in this thread, to tell them they've failed - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/172071-letter-co-solicitors.html#post1856406

[davey77]

I would also have a read of my Cap1 thread as i requested an agreement under s78 and then to be supplied a full agreement including reverse of application form.

They replied that they had sent me everything they had but nearing the Court hearing much later they produced the reverse of the application form (after i had requested it and be told they had nothing further to give me).

It didn't make them look good i must say (that they had been with holding documents i had clearly asked for) and they caved in before the hearing writing off £1,500.

[willtheywontthey]

Davey77

 

Is there any chance you could be so kind as to start a thread for beginners regarding this court action stage? It would allow us to read your experiences and evaluate whether others want to do the same. I am starting to agree with you that all this letter writing is futile but not sure about the court route and have so many questions to ask!!

[davey77]

Davey77

 

Is there any chance you could be so kind as to start a thread for beginners regarding this court action stage? It would allow us to read your experiences and evaluate whether others want to do the same. I am starting to agree with you that all this letter writing is futile but not sure about the court route and have so many questions to ask!!

 

It's an idea.. i think really all the info i have to offer is on the Cap1 thread now. I am not as half experienced (or as confidant) as many seasoned Court Pros are on here.

I had an awful lot of help with the Cap1 case from here and elsewhere and had someone i could call and email to ask, otherwise i would have been slightly lost.

Saying that it wasn't as daunting as i first thought and having done it once i believe i have enough knowledge and understanding of the process to (attempt) to try it again.

 

I think the thing to do is read other peoples threads in the legal forum and then start a thread (or continue one already) with a rough outline of your argument. Lots of people will chip and you will soon build a picture of what method can be used and how to go about it all.

 

Even after my win.. i haven't left out the possibility of instructing a Solicitor to do it all for me. Albeit on the basis that 2 yrs of writing letters has achieved little apart from keeping the wolves at bay when what i want is total resolution. I think Debtors letters are seen by Creditors these days as knowledgeable, yet without any teeth.

 

This kind of instant response, i sorry to say, is never going to be seen again without fighting for it:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/80248-tesco-visa-no-cca.html

[olliepup]

Yes i sent that letter hillards to Wescot, still haven't heard from them yet but i'm sure i will, Davey i like that, knowledgable without teeth!

 

If it gets passed back to Natwest is there a letter to send them to say i'm thinking of pursuing this in court, or maybe invite them to sue me??

[beachcomber60]

Subscribing

[olliepup]

Just an update, still nothing from Wescot since sending the letter, not sure if Wescot bought the debt or are acting for Natwest.

 

Prob get something through tomorrow now i've mentioned it!

[olliepup]

Yep i was right, got a letter today From Wescot.

 

It states their client (RBS) has requested me to write to the following address and state this is a section 77/78 request and enclose £1 payable to RBS.

 

The address is..

 

CCA Requests

Card Customer Services

Southend on Sea

SS1 9AJ

 

So what's all this then? another CCA request when i already CCA'd NatWest a while back and they produced the application form then passed in onto Wescot?

 

Will this hold anyomre info at this 'Request' address?

 

The letter was pleasent and none threatening.

 

Anyone any ideas on this?

 

Cheers Olliepup.

[IdaInFife]

Is this the same debt? NatWest and they are asking you to writew to RBS?? (please ignore my ignorance if NatWest is a part of RBS but I don't know).

 

If the original CCA request you sent to NatWest and this is what Wescot have sent then ignore it. As long as you still have original copy and tracking for it you do not need to send it.

 

i truely think they think you will give up and pay and I think they have mucked you about enough.

 

I would ignore any corres from them as you have proof you have already asked for CCA and you have advised the DCA of this.

 

You have this and can use non cca production for any defence if they get the balls to take this further

 

 

Ida x

[creditcardmug]

Without reading back thro the thread, where are we up to here?, have you now CCAd westcot, if so i have a letter for you, if not the CCA is still with RBS/Natwest, same thing, in which case you send westcot the bemused letter, end of.