Natwest/rbs/triton mint creditcard debt

[olliepup]

Hi all,

 

I'm looking for some expert advice again and i'm sure someone will know.

 

I received a letter today stating my account etc and also incuded a valid CCA, all there with my signature on it and the date in my writing.

 

Thing is they were asking for a monthly payment i couldn't afford and threatened to pass it onto solicitors so i CCA'd them.

 

In the letter it said payments from Nov 08 through to May next year with a final small payment, so i rang them to ask them was this a agreement they want or what it mean't?

 

Anyway the lady said they no longer have the account and have past it to their solicitors and gave me their number.

 

So phoned them to ask what the situation was but they no nothing about it as yet and could be in the process of being sent to them?

 

So once they have got this they will write, what is the state of play once in their hands? Are they up for negotiation to settle the debt or is it case of them cracking on to get it to court for a CCJ?

 

Now they have produced the CCA it could be worth sending S.A.R letter as i know i've had loads of of bank charges and overdraft fees.

 

Also they said they would freeze the interest on the debt but they have not, they would never put it in writing but said it would be refunded but it never has.

 

So just wondered what to do next apart from waiting for them to contact me?

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited October 27, 2008 by olliepup

[Pinky69]

If you are sure they have sent you an enforceable credit agreement, then send an SAR to Natwest (not the solicitors) to see what charges you have.

[confusedmum]

I would get the Subject access request into them with the letter to say it is dispute

I have done this to HFC who was my original creditor

[olliepup]

Yeah it looks pretty good to me, so i'll SAR them, so is it classed as in dispute even though they have produced CCA but i've sent the SAR?

 

I know i'm being lazy but does anyone have a idea where to find the SAR as i'll get it done tonight.

 

Should i send it to CMS which is basically Natwests collections or Natwest head office?

 

So the solicitor side of things is it likely to be a Stat demand, CCJ, or bankruptcy?

 

Thanks.

[42man]

This is a good SAR to use...

 

You should send a £10 postal order with each one and address it to the Data Controller at each company:-

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

print but don't sign your name

[olliepup]

Thanks for that 42man, does sending the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) put the account in dispute?

 

And also does anyone know the address so send a SAR to NatWest and first direct??

 

Searched the web and there seems to be so many!

 

cheers

[AndyOrch]

Hi olliepup

 

Is this a personal loan/ and overdraft?

 

 

 

 

 

Data Protection Act

 

Retail Regulatory Risk

2nd Floor

Cornerstone

60 South Gyle Crescent

Edinburgh

EH12 9WF

 

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[42man]

The CCA can put the debt into dispute for the loan if they don't send the agreement within 12+2 working days....and the overdraft you will have to dispute the amount with the DCA..!!

[AndyOrch]

I would suggest that no DCA is involved if its been passed to their Sols and would expect a summons be winging its way to you.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[olliepup]

Cheers guys!

 

Yes they said it's been passed onto their solicitors!

 

So looks like it could be CCJ time, they didn't produce the CCA within the 12 days plus 2 but they have produced it so i guess it's not in dispute anymore.

 

So with the court thing do you have to appear or just put your case in writing?

 

The debt is for 3.9k, is was a consolodation loan to tie up a previous loan and overdraft.

 

Thanks for the address for the SAR.

[AndyOrch]

Cheers guys!

 

Yes they said it's been passed onto their solicitors!

 

So looks like it could be CCJ time, they didn't produce the CCA within the 12 days plus 2 but they have produced it so i guess it's not in dispute anymore.

 

So with the court thing do you have to appear or just put your case in writing? Depends how far they wish to proceed and how good a defence you submit

 

The debt is for 3.9k, is was a consolodation loan to tie up a previous loan and overdraft. Check your statements and see how many penalty charges you have incured partic if you have borrowed to clear a previous O/D

 

Thanks for the address for the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

No problem

Regards

Andy;)

[olliepup]

The SAR will show this info?

 

There will be alot of overdraft charges i was going through a paticular bad time then financially.

 

Got alot of charges from First Direct too, i'll SAR them too, any idea of their address? is it under HSBC?

 

Suppose i'll have to wait to see what the letter from solicitors say? Are they in a position to negotiate a payment to save them the cost of going to court are they just there to dish out the summons?

 

Cheers

[AndyOrch]

The S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) will show this info? If they comply and include all your statements

 

There will be alot of overdraft charges i was going through a paticular bad time then financially. I would imagine thats why i made the comment with you refering to consolodation loan

 

Got alot of charges from First Direct too, i'll SAR them too, any idea of their address? is it under HSBC?

 

Suppose i'll have to wait to see what the letter from solicitors say? Are they in a position to negotiate a payment to save them the cost of going to court are they just there to dish out the summons? They normally give you 7/10 days to comply but its in their interest that you dont more coffers for the company ie litigation

 

Cheers

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Data Controller

First Direct

40 Wakefield Road

Leeds

LS98 1FD

 

[olliepup]

Hi all,

 

Seems like Natwest are having a full assault on me at the mo, they have passed my loan account onto their solicitors which i'm waiting to hear from.

 

Now triton have reared their heads after hearing nothing from them for 18 months, they were a pain last time now they are requesting full payment immediately or paying it off over 6 months which is just under 2k a month....yeah right.

 

So i asked her to send me a copy of my CCA which she replied you will have to contact my bank, but i'll CCA the DCA as it's them that has contacted me, they would not accept my monthly offer and said they will have to start legal proceedings, which will mean a CCJ or Bankruptcy???

 

I'll get the CCA off to them tomorrow night and see what happens, but they did produce the last CCA i requested from them regarding my loan account with them.

 

On the CCA front what does the genuine CCA look like? i don't have a scanner but the last CCA did have my signature and date on im my writing so i guess that genuine.

 

Any help or advice would be welcomed.

[angry cat]

Triton are the in-house debt collection dept., for RBS/Nat West

 

AC

[rory32]

Often the agreement that is supplied is genuine. The issue is really around the enforceability of the document. If it doesn't contain all the prescribed terms then the account is not enforceable under the 1974 Act even in a court of law.

[olliepup]

What should it contain?

 

The one i have contains about the CCA 1974 etc, i'll find it and look, what should i be looking for?

 

As with their in house collectors just CCA them and see what they come up with?

[ScabHunter]

Get the CCA request off to the DCA as quickly as you can.

 

The CCA relating to the loan, can you post it so we can have a look at it?

 

SH

[ScarletPimpernel]

.. and don't speak to them on the phone!

 

If your really feel the need to do so, however, ask the person at Triton who they are employed by - record it if possible.

[olliepup]

My wife will scan it tomorrow and i'll get it posted up so you experts can check it out, if there are any flaws in it least i can write back and inform them.

 

Would they get it so wrong??

[olliepup]

I had real trouble with them last time on the phone, but this lady seemed reasonable and apologised about the monthly amount request, but i've put in my CCA letter to only contact me in writing.

 

Thought i was doing well not hearing from them for so long.

[42man]

This should help you Ollie...

 

CCA RULES FOR PRESCRIBED TERMS

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

 

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Prescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
  
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
  
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
  
• And there is no advance payment
  

A is applicable

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreements executed before that date.

[olliepup]

It does state on the cca

 

1 parties to the agreement.

 

2 Purpose and amount of credit.

 

3 The credit, main loan plus insurance.

 

4 Admin fee

 

5 Rate of interest.

 

6 The payments

 

7 APR

 

8 Charges on default

 

9-20 is rules and terms under CCA 1974

 

Then a paragraph what the CCA 1974 covers.

 

Then i've signed and dated it.

 

Sounds like i'm goosed.

 

Hopefully they don't have the CCA for the credit card as i signed for it 12 years ago.

[olliepup]

Hi all,

 

I was getting threatened with pay 2k a month for a 11k credit card debt or else, so as advised on here a CCA'd them ASAP, i sent the letter requesting info and my cheque for a quid on the 5th nov first class recorded but it hasn't been cashed yet?

 

Also SAR'd the same bank in question and they haven't cashed that either?

 

I got a letter which crossed my CCA in the post saying they are taking further action as i couldn't meet their request of 2 k a month and would be sending someome round.

 

Anyway am i right in thinking the account is in dispute as i've served the CCA on them even though they haven't cashed the cheque yet?

 

As it it now upto them to cash it and produce a valid agreement?

 

Bank in question for SAR is Natwest and CCA is their bully boys Triton.

 

Thanks in advance.