Housing benefit admin penalty & summons ***WON***

[silverfox1961]

*Quote* so I think its to declare it is accurate,

 

Well we already know it's not accurate:confused:

Is the court case any time soon (don't put the exact date-councils snoop)

A bit about the ombudsman.

When your complaint reaches them it's allocated to an investigator who will do the day to day running of the complaint. Once the investigator has all the information he/she will make a recommendation to the council. The council very rarely refuse but if they do then the investigator takes the case to the chief ombudsman who has the authority to force the council to implement the recommendations but as i said that's a rarity.

 

as they say forewarned is two legged:grin::grin:

 

fox

[bubblzbee]

The court date is soon. Its a bit daunting but I have been doing alot of research into criminal law and my rights and feel more confident than i did in how to present the information as my defence. Its difficult to use the correct wording and format. with the advice given and what I have found on this site its been amazing.

Sorry I meant in respect of the prosecution they believe the evidence to be accurate, and hence they signed as witness.

[silverfox1961]

There's not much more to do for now. all you can do is try and put this to the back of your mind for a few days and deal with each new issue as it happens.

I may not be much help to you but I'll be keeping an eye on the forum and checking in on you.

 

Take care

 

fox:):)

[surprise]

Hi - my daughter has just rang me something else occurred to her. When you got your letter about overpayment did it say "Without Prejudice" - if it did then they can't take court action.

 

Sorry this is coming in waves but it is difficult for her not seeing any documentation or exactly what you have received.

[bubblzbee]

ok, on the original letter informing me of the overpayment and how collecting back it says under further information.

'please note that repayments of overpaid benefit will be accepted 'without prejudice' to any further action the council may take if it is alleged that an offence has been committed.'

From what I can see this is the only time they have put this, it is near bottom.

Edited October 31, 2008 by bubblzbee

[silverfox1961]

Morning BB

If i can remember rightly, Letters headed with "without prejudice" can't be used as evidence but with it being within the text of the letter then that doesn't count.

 

fox

[bubblzbee]

Morning. Thanks it doesn't count then. It is the only time they have put it, but its within text.

[silverfox1961]

'please note that repayments of overpaid benefit will be accepted 'without prejudice' to any further action the council may take if it is alleged that an offence has been committed.'

It's the way it's worded. Even if it's all paid off doesn't stop them taking you to court.

 

fox

[surprise]

I will check with my daughter, as what fox is saying Without Prejudice means that they cannot use it in court but I believe with the LA it has a different meaning but will check first and come back to you.

[surprise]

Yes, that was the paragraph she was referring to and yes they can take further action. She was just checking to see whether they had actually included it. If they hadn't have included it then that would have been another one of their errors.

[surprise]

BB - I'm just checking to see how you got on a smy daughter asked me today how you went with the Solicitor.

[bubblzbee]

Hiya. I am still awaiting to hear back from legal aid - found a solicitor to help me put in legal aid claim.

Heared back from the Ombudsman, they have passed my letter back to the council giving then 12 weeks to respond, I have asked this desicion to be reconsidered but was told they could not intervine until after the court hearing. I have heard nothing from the council regarding my ombudsman letter they have received, they received 2 weeks ago.

The Solicitor has not looked at anything regaarding my case yet - said pointless if refused legal aid. Will look when/if accepted.

Bit confused as I have got court monday coming and have been told I do not need to take anything regarding the case with me as only first hearing - am totally confused. I thought the summons meant the actual trial was on the date given, but told not so. Can you advise?

I don't want to turn up with nothing, nor do I want to turn up with everything but have no representation.

Thanks

[silverfox1961]

Hiya,

Thought you'd vanished but glad to see you're still around and not "banged up"

 

Right, if my memory serves me right, the first appearance at court is for pleas and direction(P's&D's). This is where you get to give your plea and the solicitors to say how they are going to progress the case and also for the magistrate to say whether it's too serious for them to handle (unlikely they'll say that- they handle lots of these cases). It may be that your solicitor advises not to enter a plea whereas the case will be adjourned.

Really, you should get legal aid and the solicitor should attend(or one of his/her representatives) Even if your brief doesn't turn up, you will be given the oppotunity to plea but nothing else. All arguments are for the trial.

If you're lucky, you won't have to go into "the dock" but if you do, don't worry. Once you've entered your plea, you will be bailed to reappear in x weeks when the trial will begin or the prosecution or defence ask for another adjournment. It's a case of wait and see what happens.

Courts are by their definition, scary places if you've never been before but try to relax. You know you've not done anything wrong and it's for your solicitor to assist the court into agreeing with that.

I'll be able to help you a little more after the court date. Just ask

 

 

Be lucky:D

 

fox

[bubblzbee]

oh I see. So the summons date is to state my plea and then a date will be set for the trial, so it doesn't matter at the moment I haven't heard back off legal aid. I have already sent in my plea by post(not guilty)

I do hope it is adjourned, so can get solicitor sorted out.

I am trying to be calm.

When you are faced with something you have never experienced before its rather frightening.

[silverfox1961]

I was like you are when i went to court. It's the not knowing.

As you have already entered a not guilty plea, it may be better to take your paperwork, just in case they decide to proceed. You could still ask for an adjournment whilst legal aid is being decided. I'm assuming you have to be there at 9.30 or 10.00 or an afternoon case. Don't expect your case to be heard at that time. They get lots of people in at the same time. If you're not sure where you are supposed to be when you get there, ask one of the ushers. They won't be hard to spot.

It's a bit of a sod that the ombudsman has returned the complaint to the council but at least if the council don't address your complaint, you've already got a case number to get the ombudsman back on their case.

If there is anything else I can help you with, just shout.

 

fox

[surprise]

Also, as the Ombudsman have sent it to the Council they will realise that you won't be messed about and that you are not going to take it lying down. I suspect they are in flap at having received their letter at this stage. It may be more of a positive than a negative.

 

Try not to worry too much, probably easier said than done, but I'm sure you will be fine, just hold the thought that you are not guilty.

[bubblzbee]

Thats a good point, hadn't thought about it like that, just saw it as a negative reaction regarding the ombudsman, though I wll be keeping intouch with them, as the council have not responded to the letter at all.

It will be intersting what happens at court.

 

I have received my BT phone bills, and it shows the calls during the time my job started, and shows the calls I made to them, numerous calls. Both to the council and tax credits.

 

I am alot calmer now. now I have proof regarding comms. As no receipt my telephone is the next thing that can show this.

 

I will update as soon as I know anything thanks .

[surprise]

My daughter has asked do you know if the papers have been sent to the Chief Exe or to housing benefit - maybe worth a call to them tomorrow to ascertain where they have gone.

[bubblzbee]

It has gone to the chief Ex

They have been given 12 weeks to deal with my complaint

[surprise]

Thats good, because when papers to go to the Chief Executive they act quicker - apparently the two things that have happened here are what the housing benefit department hate the most - the 3rd thing is involvement of an MP.

[silverfox1961]

apparently the two things that have happened here are what the housing benefit department hate the most - the 3rd thing is involvement of an MP.

Hi Surprise. That is so spot on. It was amazing how my councils attitude changed once the ombudsman got involved in my last case but in a previous case I didn't use the ombudsman, I got my MP and MEP involved. Within a month the council collapsed and withdrew their claim for £375 Housing benefit overpayment.

I just love the fact that they have to follow the rules even though they don't like us lowlies to know it.:D

 

fox

[surprise]

My daughter was talking about this to me she said the staff jump through hoops when anything is passed down to them from either of the above three bodies. Whilst the Chief Executive doesn't actually do anything the fact that it has come from him is just enough.

 

So hang in there BB I am sure you will be fine.

[bubblzbee]

not heard anything as yet. Will update as soon as know anything more. After monday. Hope Chief ex do act fast.

Thanks

BB

[surprise]

When you go to Court on Monday I would make sure you have your file handy, also make bullet points of any relevant information that you need to get across, be prepared.

 

Good luck

[bubblzbee]

Hi. case adjurned . Have been accepted for legal aid, and have a solicitor to represent me now too.

Council tried to get me to accept admin penalty again to stop proceedings but I have declined.

Will update more when I have seen solicitor

 

Wasn't as scary as i'd previously thought.