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Blair Oliver Scott CCA response - and they've taken my £1.00!!!!


moonwoman
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Hi, I would appreciate your thoughts/comments advice on the following...

 

I CCA'd BOS in September for Halifax C/C debt they are chasing. We had been making small monthly payments for a while, but not at the moment.

 

They have responded with the Application form which I will photobucket in below. It does have an APR rate on it, but I cannot see a credit limit on my first look. It also clearly states 'Priority Application.' Can anyone advise if this is enforceable please?

 

They have also sent a standard credit card statement showing that they have credited the £1.00 CCA payment to the account, despite express instructions not to in the CCA letter. Call me cynical, but is this a ploy to show an acknowlegement of the debt by crediting the £1.00 to it? (allegedly of course!)

 

Since sending the Application Form copy and the statement they have also sent another Final Notice - threatening Court Action - this is about the third 'Final Notice' - I really must brush up on my vocabulary!

 

They are also phoning using a recorded message asking for a call back - again despite express instructions in the CCA letter which states we will only deal in writing. The other day there was a call just after 5.00pm from this machine, and then another at 7.50 pm - I'm not sure if the second one was a machine or a 'real person' as we were eating tea and I just clicked on answer and then hung straight up. However, I thought I had read on here somewhere that there was a minimum time that should elapse after an automated message has been left by them?

 

Any advice or pointers to a letter to cover the £1.00 issue (I'm really mad about that) and the phone call issue - ie which laws I can quote them, as I have already stated 'in writing only'? Also of course any thoughts at all on the enforceability of the Application form they have sent?

 

Many Thanks

 

 

HBOS_Application_front.jpg

 

 

 

HBOS_Application_back.jpg

Edited by moonwoman
problems with second photobucket image
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The bank's signature is not necessary to make it enforceable - only the debtor's signature . From Section 127 (3) of the CCA 1974 :

 

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section

61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether

or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1))

itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or

hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

There is a reference to the credit limit in that the bank will set it, an interest rate, a payment schedule and your signature. Those are the required prescribed terms.

 

What they did with the £1 is academic. It was sent to fulfill the requirements of the CCA request and the poster made that clear in writing. They paid it into the account but this cannot be deemed to be a payment to account by the poster - all that matters is that the poster fulfilled their responsibilty in law.

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It was your application form but drawn up in such a way that it doubles for an agreement once signed. It has all the prescribed terms and I believe a judge could enforce it. I am not a lawyer - this is only my opinion.

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Hi Pinky,

 

Oh b0**er it - this is the largest amount we have owing to credit card debt, so I was hoping this wouldn't be enforceable. Still fair dos, if it is enforceable I will have to contact them with some sort of monthly offer ASAP

 

Moonwoman

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  • 2 weeks later...

Any more thoughts on this please - which Pinky believes to be enforceable. I haven't had a full statement of the account yet from BOS - just a standard credit card statement showing the £1 has been credited to the account. Should I write to them asking for them to send me a full statement as I have already requested, before I consider a monthly offer or trying to reclaim the charges?

 

Thanks

 

Moonwoman

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If the prescribed terms are within the agreement then it is enforceable, is the second scan said to be the back of the first?

does it say on page one that the terms are overleaf?

 

In all honesty it probably is ok as the fonts match, and the sports bag thingy is on both, im afraid

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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Hi Credit Card Mug

 

I can't see that it specifically states that the conditions are overleaf, - it does say that 'I have read and agree to be bound by the enclosed conditions'. I have scanned it in as two parts, but the copy they sent me was on one double sided sheet, which has a 'tear' mark in the top corner - as if it has been stapled to something, so if someone has cut and pasted it, then they have gone to more trouble than the norm it seems (allegedly) As you say the fonts and styles etc match (I've still got the sportsbag!)

 

I'm considering a letter asking them to send me the full statement as per my CCA letter. Does the lack of a full statement showing all payments and charges still hold the account in dispute until it is received, or is it only the CCA agreement which does that?

 

MW

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Sorry to ask again, but does anyone have an answer to the question in my last paragraph please? It's just that I don't know yet if I will have internet access next week apart from tomorrow.

 

I am thinking of just sending a short letter along the lines of 'to enable me to fully deal with this matter, please send me a full statement of the account as requested in my letter of XXXXX,' or do I need to send an SAR request? I would like to know the charges that have been applied to the account, to decide what to do next.

 

Thanks

 

Moonwoman

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You are entitled to statements as part of your CCA request - you don't have to send them an SAR. You can tell them, as you suggested, that you are unable to deal with the matter until they have fulfilled all parts of your request and sent the required statements of account specified under the Act. If they don't then send statements you can place the account in dispute until they do.

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Thanks Pinky - I think that is the way I'll go for the moment. I have no idea at this stage what the charges on the account amount to. As I seem to be unlucky enough to be just about the only person to have a valid Halifax agreement :mad:, it would be interesting to weigh up the charges and decide if we want to pursue claiming them back.

 

Moonwoman

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The bank's signature is not necessary to make it enforceable - only the debtor's signature . From Section 127 (3) of the CCA 1974 :

 

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section

61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether

or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1))

itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or

hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

There is a reference to the credit limit in that the bank will set it, an interest rate, a payment schedule and your signature. Those are the required prescribed terms.

 

What they did with the £1 is academic. It was sent to fulfill the requirements of the CCA request and the poster made that clear in writing. They paid it into the account but this cannot be deemed to be a payment to account by the poster - all that matters is that the poster fulfilled their responsibilty in law.

 

You are actually slightly wrong on this although the Section 78 has indeed been complied with as you say.

 

In order that the agreement be 'properly executed' it does indeed have to be 'properly signed' in the manner dictated by a statutory instrument of 1983 - 1553 I think it is by both parties. Otherwise the agreement cannot be enforced without court intervention. And there you have the rub, no bank signature no enforcement by the bank, no interest nothing. That is why the banks are cra****g themselves at the moment, they know that people out there are only a hairs width away from finding out there rights.

 

As regards claiming back the interest its a matter of starting court action ,they're not going to give it back if you just ask.

 

Remeber there is more than one way to skin a cat!!!

Mike

If I've helped tip my scales

 

Blair Oliver & Scott, £2500 written off December 2006 Default removed January 2007:D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/56001-mike220359-blair-oliver-scott.html

 

Monument, didn't sign the agreement

:D

 

Lloyds TSB didn't sign the agreement!

:D

 

Citicards, didn't sign the agreement

:D

 

RBS tut, tut!

:rolleyes:

 

Morgan Stanley, oh dear

:rolleyes:

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I don't believe I am slightly wrong at all. The CCA 1974 makes it quite clear that an agreement can be enforced in court without the banker's signature. The question is "Is the agreement enforceable?" ie if it went to court, could a judge enforce it. In my view he/she could and have enforced on a lot less.

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Hi Pinky and Mike,

 

I've read both your posts with interest. Mike - I've got no idea what a 'statutory instrument' is - will have to look that one up! I have been mulling this over - I do not untend to acknowledge the debt at the moment by making any payment offers. I will just send them a letter reminding them that they haven't sent me a full statement of the account, including any payments made and charges levied, and then wait and see..... unless you suggest I mention that the bank has not signed the copy of the application form they have sent, and see what they say to that?

 

Thanks to you both

 

Moonwoman

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On the £1.00 fee this is standard behaviour done on purpose to get you to contact them and also to wind you up. These people know full well what a fee is and incredibly they did the same to me and added it as a payment on a statement, just write back and play the game and tell them the error of their ways, my view is by doing tis it only strengthens your hand to prove how awkward and unreasonble they can be and how they have no control when following legislation and the law, which Halifax do think they are above. BOS were instructed to issue court papers within 7 days if I didn't pay up ...... month later still waiting ..... and no I haven't paid up

Professional Halifax Loather

 

"In the dark, all cats are grey"

 

Illegitimi Non Carborundum

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Hi Harrythehawk,

 

Yep - prior to finding this site it would have got me straight on to the phone to them! Mind you, prior to finding this site, I wouldn't have sent them the CCA letter in the first place, so it wouldn't have arisen.;)

Oooo-errr - this is beginning to sound like a time anomaly episode of Star Trek! Anyway I'll get a letter off to them by Monday, covering the points above, and see what develops. I'll probably have had another 'FINAL' 7 DAY NOTICE LETTER or two by the time they reply (if they ever do!)

 

Moonwoman

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Hi, the fact they havent signed the agreement is neither here nor there, a court would enforce it anyway.

 

A Statutory Instrument is a regulation added to an Act by parliament i.e. a regulation added to the CCA 1974.

 

If they have supplied an up to date statement of account, they are allowed to get away with this, so at the end of the day you will probably have to do the SAR to get the full set of statements (but you need to specifically ask for them in the letter).

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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  • 1 month later...

As I wasn't getting anything new from BOS on this other than the usual standard letters etc., I decided on a 'wait and see' policy.

 

Have now received two very red letters from Westcot Credit asking that we contact them by XX/XX/XX or they may take court action, etc., I'm a bit bemused to be honest. Having sent me a copy of an apparently enforceable agreement, surely the next logical step by BOS, believing themselves to be in possession of an enforceable agreement, would be straight to real court action, but they appear to have followed the usual route of simply passing it on to another DCA? Perhaps you are right Pinky, and they don't know the law.

 

Anyway, with nothing to lose except another pound, I have sent Westcot a CCA request - to see what happens. It would be interesting to see if they follow the same route as BOS - sending the copy, a few standard letters, then pass it on to someone else?

 

Any thoughts anybody?

 

Moonwoman

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As I wasn't getting anything new from BOS on this other than the usual standard letters etc., I decided on a 'wait and see' policy.

 

Have now received two very red letters from Westcot Credit asking that we contact them by XX/XX/XX or they may take court action, etc., I'm a bit bemused to be honest. Having sent me a copy of an apparently enforceable agreement, surely the next logical step by BOS, believing themselves to be in possession of an enforceable agreement, would be straight to real court action, but they appear to have followed the usual route of simply passing it on to another DCA? Perhaps you are right Pinky, and they don't know the law.

 

Anyway, with nothing to lose except another pound, I have sent Westcot a CCA request - to see what happens. It would be interesting to see if they follow the same route as BOS - sending the copy, a few standard letters, then pass it on to someone else?

 

Any thoughts anybody?

 

Moonwoman

 

Just because they have provided you with what looks like an enforceable agreement does not mean its the law that they have to take court action the creditor is perfectly ok to pass it to a collection agency.

 

Also personally I feel another CCA request would be pointless as BOS have already provided it and if they have it then it's very likely that Wescot will either have it, be provided with one or pass it back to BOS who have one. The only real thing you will achieve is prolonging any action that either BOS or Wescot can taken

Specialist Debt Adviser

 

Community Legal Aid 0845 345 4345 Free advice on Debt, Employment, Housing and Welfare Benefits

 

I work for Community Legal Aid and Citizens Advice

 

I am a member of the Institute for Money Advisers

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Hi Laydee Danielle,

 

Yes, I do see what you are saying about them not being obliged to go to court with it, but it just seemed a bit odd to me that they simply passed it on to Westcot, in the same way they would do if they didn't have anything which may be enforceable.

 

As they have passed this to Westcot, should they (BOS) have sent me something to advise that they have taken this action?

 

Moonwoman

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Yes they should have written to say that Westcot are acting for them.

 

The best thing you can do now is SAR BOS, to get the full set of statements to see what fees/charges have been added, then you can insist these are credited back to the account including interest thereon, once done make an offer of payment you can afford.

 

The new CCA request to westcot is a waste of time, as the matter is still in dispute with BOS.

 

If westcot are to remain involved, you need written confirmation from BOS, before dealing with them.

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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