Welcome Finance Problems 1

[felixfly]

I took out a secured loan with Welcome Finance in 2005.

Soon after i lost my business and got into difficulties.

I ended up with CCCS for some unsecured loans and credit cards.

I moved into rented accommodation and put my house on the market.

 

However the house didn't sell for 6 months and i had to drop the price.

In the end the house sold for more than the mortgage but not enough to pay off the secured loan as well.

As i was then in areas with my mortgage the Halifax wanted to sell and it went through.

After the Halifax had taken my arrears and early payment fees - they gave £1750 to Welcome.

 

This is where the problems started.

 

I tried to continue paying Them my payment but they kept saying they couldnt find my details

as my account was being sent from the branch to head office and was in the middle somewhere so was not showing on either system.

This went on for months - every time i tried to make a payment.

 

Eventually they started phoning my father who i had not used as a guarantor- but only as a reference.

He didnt give them any infomation as he thought it might be a fleecer, but when i tried they could not find any record of me.

 

Eventually someone rang me and thought my house had been repossessed.

I told them we had sold it and he said the loan was now an unsecured loan.

 

We added it to CCCS and paid them £90 a month.

This has been going along fine until this month.

 

We have stopped using CCCS as they were paying some payments late and it is easier for us to pay the creditors direct.

We agreed with them all that we could pay the same amount but we would pay direct.

 

Now Welcome are saying they want the original paymet of £280 a month which we cannot afford.

They have also told me that my account balance is £18500.

We only borrowed £15000 and we were paying £280 a month before the problems started.

 

Then they had £1750 from the house sale and £90 a month for 18 months.

We owe £3500 than we originally borrowed.

 

They also said we do not have an unsecured agreeement with them at the moment and we need to sign one.

Im not sure if i should and would be grateful for any advice.

 

I would like to just carry on paying them £90 a month and pay the balance down but it has actually been going up for the last 3 years.

 

 

I would appreciate any advice on this matter and would like to know where i stand legally now the secured asset has been sold and

i dont have a credit agreement.

 

 

Regards

 

Felix

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, I think you would be best to send a S.A.R. (Subject Access Request) to Welcome to establish how they arrive at the figure they have quoted and also to find out what happened to the account when the house was sold. You will need to send a postal order for £10 with the request and it is important that you write your name and welcome account number on the back together with the words "fee for Subject Access Request - not to be used as payment to account". Send by recorded delivery so they can't say they didn't get it and then check on the royalmail website a few days later to print of the signature - keep that together with a copy of the letter and po receipt.

 

you can find a sample SAR here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/letter-templates/155529-r-subject-access-request.html

you will need to adapt to state the request is for a loan agreement rather than a credit card.

 

Kind Regards

 

Ell-enn

[felixfly]

Hi

 

I sent the SAR letter off to Welcome along with a postal order which they received on the 30/10/08.

 

On the 14/11/08 i received a short statement of my account from the beginning. However this just shows money as a credit or debit. There are £10 debits going out all over the place. Also every time i paid £97 through CCCS they have added £285 in interest. At this rate i am just owing more and more. They have not sent me a copy of my agreement or anything else.

 

They do however keep asking me to sign a new loan agreement every time i ring to make a payment.

 

What should i do next? Any advice is much appreciated. Should i sign a new agreement?

[postggj]

please do not sign a new agreement until you have all the facts

welcome in the norm only offer this to snare you or the original agreement is crap

 

send this sar

 

include this paragraph

 

Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me, including correspondence to the underwriter of any insurance policies and details of the relevant Insurance Premium Tax (IPT) payable on any single premium policies. Please ensure this includes how much tax was payable, who payment was made to and the date of this payment.

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

print but don't sign your name

[postggj]

hi felixfly

the time for welcome to comply with your sar is still not up yet

so they sent you a statement etc but no agreement.

maybe they dont have one, in that case, game over

wait till the forty days are up then ill give you the template for being in default of your sar

 

please dont sign a new agreement until you have your sar as the new agreement will be binding and cancel out any outstanding agreement

 

if they phone again, tell them you will consider signing a new agreement as soon as you have your sar

[postggj]

the 12+2 is for a cca request

a sar request is 40 days

[felixfly]

Well i still havn't received anything from Welcome yet. Should i stop paying them? All i had was the statement i mentioned previously that showed loads of £10 charges and the capitalisation figures.

 

My balance is going up by £285 a month so i am a bit worried about just leaving it to mount up. I cannot afford to pay that much however so any money i give to them would still not stop it from increasing.

 

What are my options now, im still not sure of the law regarding this as the agreement would have been a secured loan agreement and the house was sold over 2 years ago. They have said i should sign a new agreement but i really dont want to deal with these people again.

[postggj]

due to the holiday season, i would give it another week.

for the time being, if they have not defaulted you, make the next payment as usual.

they are not allowed to default you while in dispute but that does not stop them

 

i noticed the agreement was 2005

 

there is a strong possibility they have no agreement

 

if that is the case, give them enough rope to hang themselves

whats another seven days

[felixfly]

OK, i really dont think i will be receiving anything else, i think that statement was all they are going to send me. As explained earlier they moved my account between offices and couldn't bring up my details on the system for 3 months whilst it was being moved and i couldnt make a payment despite ringing them to try(They have still charged interest for this period though). I dont know whether my agreement was lost in this time.

 

They have however rang my father who was down on the form as a personal reference NOT a guarantor. hey also rang the head office of the company i work through. Is there anything i can send them that could stop them doing this? Surely it is not legal to harass people who were just references?

 

Anyway what should my next move be, should i stop paying them and send them something or just stop paying and wait for them to contact me. I notice the company is in trouble and making redundances/closing offices. What would be likely to happen if the company goes under?

 

Regards

 

Felix

Edited January 7, 2009 by felixfly

[postggj]

send the telephone harrasment letter

that will stop the calls

 

with that send this

 

i dont recomend stopping payments as allowed by law now but have they allready defaulted you, if so, its fair game

 

its looking good that they dont have your agreement

 

game over

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account: xxxxxxxx

 

You have failed to comply with my Data Protection Act Subject Access Request dated (Insert Date).

 

If you do not comply within the next 7 days I shall seek a Court order obliging you to do so together with damages at the discretion of the Court and without any further notice.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

 

[name]

 

 

 

 

Your Street

Town

City

Postcode

DATE HERE

Company Name

Road

Town

City / County

Postcode

 

 

Dear Sirs

Harassment by telephone

 

FORMAL COMPLAINT UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 2006 COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE

 

Account Number: XXXXXXX

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Please treat this also as a formal complaint, and send me a copy of your company complaints procedure.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[NAME HERE] (type don't sign)

[felixfly]

Thanks for that. They may have defaulted me when it went from a secured to unsecured loan when i sold the house. I will check my Credit file and see.

[postggj]

chill, relax

 

think no agreement

 

like i said

 

its looking good

[felixfly]

Well, i sent the letter before action and i have now received a letter back from the head office.

 

It basically says thanks for your complaint which has been forwarded to the branch who will contact you in next few days. Please find attached a copy of our complaints procedure.

 

They also put in a leaflet about complaining to the FOS.

 

What would be my next step now? Should i just wait for the branch to contact me?

 

Felix

[felixfly]

Well, i had a letter beck from the branch saying it was a final response to my complaint. It said they would delete the telephone numbers from my account file. This was in response to the telephone harrassment letter i included with my LBA as posted above. They have not even acknowledged the problem with them not complying with the SAR. I now however have a persons name at the branch so have resent it to his name recorded delivery.

[felixfly]

OK These guys are really confusing me now.

 

I received a letter from the compliance department in Nottingham saying they have forwarded my complaint to the branch who will deal with it and any further dealings will be with the branch. That was sent to me on the 14/01/09.

 

Today i have received a letter from the compliance department at Nottingham saying the following.

 

'We write regarding your previous letter. You state you have written to us to ask for a copy of your agreement. We have 12 days to respond from the date of receipt of a request in writing and £1.

 

As we have not received either we will consider that your agreement is enforceable.'

 

This is in response to an SAR request which clearly asks for a true copy of my agreement and payment of £10.

 

The SAR was sent recorded so i know they received it.

 

The letter then goes on to say.

 

'Please forward all correspondence to the compliance department at Nottingham'

 

When the previous letter said it was being dealt with by the branch. These people really are useless.

[felixflyer]

Anyone....

 

I have now had a letter from a branch saying it was a final response, then a few days later letters from the Nottingham office as above.

 

Should i be paying these people still?

 

What is the next step after they are in default?

 

I genuinely want to see my CCA as after reading the threads on here i am worried they have added PPI. I also want to read what it says about the debt becoming unsecured as i cant grasp how this works, surely i should be issued with a new set of T&C's for an unsecured loan?

[felixfly]

Well this is what they sent me:

 

Could someone tell me if this is enforceable? This is all they sent me though despite this sheet saying it is sheet 5. It was in response to an SAR so surely i should have got more. There are numerous charges on my statement so shouldnt i have been sent copies of all letters sent to me in the past?

 

As i have said this loan has now become unsecured as the property has been sold. I would like to know what my legal situation is as this is a secured agreement and i have not seen anything that tells me the new terms and conditions.

 

[felixflyer]

Anyone............

 

I have today received a default notice from them as well:-(

[clemma]

I am not 100% sure with this, but I do know that it is a big no-no to add the acceptance fee in to the total charge for credit (as you are paying interest on what should be a one off payment).

 

Can you post the default notice as well, so that can be checked for any mistakes?

[felixflyer]

Hi

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I was told it was a default notice by my wife but when i got home i saw it is not actually a default notice but a letter saying 'notice of default charges added'.

 

It then goes on to say that for the letters it has sent me over the past few weeks regarding my SAR they have charged me £10 per letter.

 

What can i do about them adding acceptance fee in to the total charge for credit? This account is going up at nearly £300 a month and i cannot afford to pay all that. They say they cannot discuss lower repayments or interest until i sign a new agreement.

 

Should they have also sent me the rest of the contract?

[Pinky69]

They are not allowed in law to add fees to the credit agreement. There is a famous case that went right to the House of Lords of a Mrs Wilson who had a BMW car and had a £5000 loan on it. They tried to repossess the car. They had a fee on it of £50 and the lender said the total charge for credit was £5050. She argued that £5000 was the total charge for credit as the fee wasn't part of the credit. She won her case in the Lords. You will be able to find the case if you google.

[felixfly]

Hi

 

I have received all my info again from Welcome in response to my Subject Access Request and i have a few questions. If anyone can give me some advise i would be very grateful.

 

There is load of pages that are transcripts of phone converaations and letters between myself and Welcome. It keeps saying 'Acc assessed for aoe' What could this mean? At first it says 'Acc qualifies' Then later it says 'Does not qualify for AOE as incorrect NOD issued. Should be interest bearing NOD'.

 

Next i have another transcript going from 2002 to present. However this is not for me or my account. It is in relating to someone else and has full list of payments names amount etc. Luckily only the last 4 digits of the card but it does show expiry dates and phone numbers, employer etc.

 

My agreement looks enforceable but have i been charged interest on my acceptance fee? How do i tell?

 

 

 

Regards

 

Felix

[postggj]

hi felixfly

sorry ive been away, ligaments and all that

ill take a nose at the agreement and get back later on tonight

[postggj]

felixfly

 

agreement is crap

kiss welcome goodbuy

 

no wonder they were persistant in trying to get you to sign a new agreement

 

interest on acceptance fee in total ammount of credit

 

GAME OVER

[082stewie]

Hi

 

 

Next i have another transcript going from 2002 to present. However this is not for me or my account. It is in relating to someone else and has full list of payments names amount etc. Luckily only the last 4 digits of the card but it does show expiry dates and phone numbers, employer etc.

 

 

 

 

Regards

 

Felix

 

They did the exact same with me, sent me someone elses full statement with all details. I took the liberty to forward the whole lot off to him. With a little note from me