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Amex taking me to court - any advice - *** WON ***

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Hello PN!

 

 

 

Sorry for delay responding.

 

Defence looks OK, minor issue with Paragraph numbering (see paragraph 26) and also towards the end going out of step (from Paragraph 69, it jumps to 128).

 

Plus Paragraph 51 may have the wrong date for Termination?

 

Might be an idea to go through the Defence and correct all of these issues, at least so that you have a corrected Copy.

 

Not sure if or how you can update the Court, but in Paragraph 56 you have asked permission to Amend the Defence, so that may be good.

 

The main issues have come across, so the Paragraph numbering and odd date mistake are issues you just need to prepare for, and fix if you can if allowed to present an Amended Defence.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

HI BRW, nice to hear from you. I did change the numbering, etc, before sending the defence in, this was an "interim" before finalising. It was unfortunately, all last minute thanks to other circumstances, and was just trying to get in on the forum asap in case anyone had a chance to read through it. I couldn't have done it though without the details you gave me.

 

I am hoping that by challenging them to supply the Agreement and valid Default Notice, that I will at least be making a stand! My claim is almost as much as theirs, so not sure how they are likely to proceed. I guess, agree to settle out of court, or argue the whole thing. I have noticed though on CAG that there doesn't seem to be many successes with Amex, so perhaps they will argue the whole thing and win?? :eek: I hope not!

 

Hope you are getting on okay with yours?

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Hello PN!

 

Good, I had a feeling you'd spot that and fix the Paragraph numbering issues.

 

Amex are just very pushy, but they can be beaten.

 

There are many Amex Threads, just not all in the Amex Forum.

 

Just hold your nerve and keep reading and reading, so that you know the issues front to back well before Court.

 

It may not get into Court, but don't assume that. Always plan on it going all the way, and be fully prepared to walk in on the day, no matter what.

 

Then if they elect to pull out, it can be on your terms and not theirs. If they try to be silly, just keep going all the way to Court.

 

Remember that your Counter-Claims now have a life of their own. They have to ask you not to go ahead. Even if they pull out, you can still go ahead to Counter-Claim.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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Hello PN!

 

Good, I had a feeling you'd spot that and fix the Paragraph numbering issues.

 

Amex are just very pushy, but they can be beaten.

 

There are many Amex Threads, just not all in the Amex Forum.

 

Just hold your nerve and keep reading and reading, so that you know the issues front to back well before Court.

 

It may not get into Court, but don't assume that. Always plan on it going all the way, and be fully prepared to walk in on the day, no matter what.

 

Then if they elect to pull out, it can be on your terms and not theirs. If they try to be silly, just keep going all the way to Court.

 

Remember that your Counter-Claims now have a life of their own. They have to ask you not to go ahead. Even if they pull out, you can still go ahead to Counter-Claim.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

I so wish I had sorted the charges claim out ages ago - thought this was one of the smaller ones, and would deal with it later - it turned round and bit me on the wotsit!! :D Actually, the others that I am dealing with are just hanging around going nowhere, and in some senses that's more stressful (at the moment) than dealing with this - once I got my head around what I was supposed to be doing/saying, I quite enjoyed it!!

 

Thanks BRW, hope you have good weekend.

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any news?


Lowell Financial (Monument) No CCA - File Closed ** WON**:D

1st Credit (Citi Financial) No CCA - Credit Report Marked 'Satisfied' ** WON **:D

American Express No CCA - Pending

RBS Mint No CCA - Pending

CL Finance (Morgan Stanley) No CCA - In Court:eek:

HSBC - No CCA - In Court:eek:

Link Financial (MBNA) No CCA - Pending

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Another appalling Amex thread. Again, Amex have behaved in their consistent underhand way. I would suggest that the Site Team look at the various Amex threads and advise if it worth taking these to the FSA.

 

Amex use a variety of tactics that are in clear breach of the OFT guidelines on debt collection, and that is my main point - who cares about guidelines, certainly not Amex? They default at the drop of a hat, even though they tell you they will not, then they try underhand methods of getting judgment by default. There are several cases of this and it should be brought to the attention of the Law Society in the case of individual solicitors and again the FSA who should take a look at revoking their credit license.

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I am so muddled with all of this - I received a trial date for end of February stating Brighton court - I was assured by the court when I rang up on receipt of the summons that it would get transferred to my local court as it was a small amount and I was a "party in person", but it has been kept at Brighton. I wrote to the district judge asking if this could be moved.

 

Since then I had a letter from brachers sending through details of my original SAR, including a copy of the Application form, not an agreement, and stating that they did not need to supply documents with their summons as their claim was filed online?

 

And I have also had a letter from them suggesting that I pay them a proportion of what is "owed".

 

Their summons was for £590, plus court fees £55 and solicitors fees £70, and they have offered me a settlement of £490, provided I pay it by 8.2.09

 

I am counter claiming for £447.00 (charges) and £141 (as at end of Nov) for 8% stat interest.

 

What could I go back to them on? And could I insist that the default is removed from my credit record as really it is the charges which has defaulted my account.....

 

I have been searching on the site for anyone in a similar situation and not had much luck, so if anyone does know of a thread that is similar would you mind pointing me in the right direction?

 

Thanks

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BUMP:confused:

 

I am so muddled with all of this - I received a trial date for end of February stating Brighton court - I was assured by the court when I rang up on receipt of the summons that it would get transferred to my local court as it was a small amount and I was a "party in person", but it has been kept at Brighton. I wrote to the district judge asking if this could be moved.

 

Since then I had a letter from brachers sending through details of my original Subject Access Request, including a copy of the Application form, not an agreement, and stating that they did not need to supply documents with their summons as their claim was filed online?

 

And I have also had a letter from them suggesting that I pay them a proportion of what is "owed".

 

Their summons was for £590, plus court fees £55 and solicitors fees £70, and they have offered me a settlement of £490, provided I pay it by 8.2.09

 

I am counter claiming for £447.00 (charges) and £141 (as at end of Nov) for 8% stat interest.

 

What could I go back to them on? And could I insist that the default is removed from my credit record as really it is the charges which has defaulted my account.....

 

I have been searching on the site for anyone in a similar situation and not had much luck, so if anyone does know of a thread that is similar would you mind pointing me in the right direction?

 

Thanks

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BUMP:confused:

 

Hi Pandora

 

I suggest that you telephone Brighton court and again request transfer to your local court, tell them you are a litigant in person.

 

Your charges are almost as much as the sum they are litigating for, you should counterclaim the full amount + 8% interest and also have the default removal as part of your counter claim. There are cases on CAG where this has been successfully achieved and you should read around the threads.

 

Amex and Brachers will back down at some point, they would be even more stupid than usual to take this one in front of a judge.

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Hi Pandora

 

I suggest that you telephone Brighton court and again request transfer to your local court, tell them you are a litigant in person.

 

Your charges are almost as much as the sum they are litigating for, you should counterclaim the full amount + 8% interest and also have the default removal as part of your counter claim. There are cases on CAG where this has been successfully achieved and you should read around the threads.

 

Amex and Brachers will back down at some point, they would be even more stupid than usual to take this one in front of a judge.

 

 

Thanks Monty, I phoned Brighton, and have sent a letter in requesting that it is changed to my local court. The court date I have from Brighton is 25th Feb, so I am hoping they will still agree to change it????

 

I was thinking about going back to brachers suggesting:

 

Full refund of charges, plus 8% and removal of default, this would leave a small amount still payable to Amex of around £9.00 (!!), so should I offer this? I have searched around the site to find suitable letters which would be suitable to send to them, but haven't found any so far!

 

For me the main thing is to get the default removed, and although I want all my charges back, perhaps I should be prepared to negotiate on this amount - I am just so unsure as to the right way to handle this with them, I don't want to shoot myself in the foot - so any advice is very much appreciated.

 

Thanks again

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Thanks Monty, I phoned Brighton, and have sent a letter in requesting that it is changed to my local court. The court date I have from Brighton is 25th Feb, so I am hoping they will still agree to change it????

 

I was thinking about going back to brachers suggesting:

 

Full refund of charges, plus 8% and removal of default, this would leave a small amount still payable to Amex of around £9.00 (!!), so should I offer this? I have searched around the site to find suitable letters which would be suitable to send to them, but haven't found any so far!

 

For me the main thing is to get the default removed, and although I want all my charges back, perhaps I should be prepared to negotiate on this amount - I am just so unsure as to the right way to handle this with them, I don't want to shoot myself in the foot - so any advice is very much appreciated.

 

Thanks again

 

Hi Pandora

 

They should automatically transfer the case locally, I would also write a letter to the Clerk of the Court.

 

Ensure that you make your offer Without Prejudice so it cannot be disclosed in court and make it clear that the settlement is specific in respect of the default removal since they have now trashed your credit rating. There are cases where the default removal has been obtained since the amount of default charges are substantial as in your case.

 

Brachers will settle, they would be stupid to take this to litigation. But you have to make it 100% clear that you will do so if they do not settle and include the default removal as part of this.

 

Good luck

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Hello, if anyone has any time, would you mind reading the letter below which I am intending to send off tomorrow? I am not convinced I am saying the right thing in the right way, and would be very grateful for any help. Thanks:) (Their solicitors sent me a letter "without prejudice save as to costs", saying they had accepted the mediation service - I haven't heard anything from the mediation service so far - and that in view of the pure economies of this, their client was willing to consider an OoC settlement of £460.00. I have until 7th Feb 4.00pm to go back to them) Their letter also stated that it would be a condition of this offer(!!! some offer) if I withdrew the counter claim.

 

 

 

Further to your letter dated 20th January, received 29th January, please be advised that I would be more than happy to consider settling this matter out of court.

 

As directed by the Court, I have consented to the use of Brighton County Court’s mediation service.

 

However, I am unable to accept your settlement of £460 for the following reasons:

 

- I have yet to receive the True Executed Agreement from either American Express Services Europe or yourselves, this has been requested on a number of occasions, additionally I have not received a true copy of the original default notice.

- American Express Services Europe Limited knowlingly charged me Unlawful Penalties totalling £447.00. My counterclaim is for £447.00 and £141.16 interest under Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 resulting in a total counter claim for £588.16 as at 22 November 2008.

- It is therefore clear to see that your client has chosen to pursue this course of action knowing that their claim is wholly made up of Unlawful Penalty Charges and interest that your client has charged against these Penalty Charges.

 

I will pursue my counter claim through the Court for the full amount and the removal any Default or Termination notices under Section 14(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998 from their records and additionally advise any third parties, such as credit reference agencies of this.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

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Hello PN!

 

I'd get the Case moved away from Brighton if you can. That is Amex Territory, and they employ too many people down there!

 

I somehow can't see you getting a fair crack at them there.

 

The letter looks OK. I think you need to Search CAG for Threads on Mediation, as not many have a lot of good to say about it.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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Hello BRW - how nice to hear from you - hope things are going well for you (from your thread it didn't look too bad). I have written to the court requesting that it is moved to my local court, but time is running out. I shall call them again tomorrow.

 

I am worried about it being in Brighton as well, and am surprised that it has landed up being there - especially as the court told me it would be transferred automatically!

 

I will be faxiing and posting the letter to Brachers tomorrow, so we'll see what comes out of it. To my mind, I owe them either very very little or nothing at all, and I guess I would be prepared to meet them somewhere as long as the default was removed.....

 

Do you know if it went to court, and I lost completely if I then got a CCJ and paid it off in the 30 days if the default remains on my credit record - I have hunted high and low and cannot find any information on this!!

 

Thanks for your message, it is much appreciated.

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Responding to your Site Team request. :)

 

Before the letter goes, read here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/83044-mediation-bad-idea.html#post742517

 

Otherwise it looks good.

 

Of course, you're entitled to have the Hearing at YOUR local court. Pursue this as you suggest.


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Hello PN!

 

I'd do all you can to get the Case moved, as a Litigant in Person, it should be moved to your local Court once your Defence goes in.

 

I regret I don't know about the Default, but if you lost and Paid what the Court ordered with 28 Days I think it is, then there is no CCJ as far as I'm aware. But the Default is another issue, as Amex will probably let that sit as they'll say they won thus proving the Default was valid.

 

But that's assuming they'll win, and that's not certain by any means!

 

It sounds like you have a straight head to head fight with them on what they want and what you want from them. In that case, stay strong and don't let them push you around.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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Thank you both for such speedy responses - much appreciated. I am not convinced about the mediation thing at all. I will phone the court again tomorrow to request a transfer to my local court. I hope they don't refuse as this would be a real nightmare!

 

Thanks again, I will send the letter off tomorrow.

 

:)

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Hello PN!

 

I am not convinced about the mediation thing at all.

 

There's a Thread on CAG that is worth reading, I regret I can't remember who wrote it, possibly Bookworm or Gizmo I think. But it did put forward a good way to get out of it by saying it would not play fair and was costly.

 

I will phone the court again tomorrow to request a transfer to my local court. I hope they don't refuse as this would be a real nightmare!

 

I don't think they can refuse. As a Litigant in Person, it has to be moved to your local Court.

 

If you need more help on that issue, just shout, and I'll see if I can dig out some more bumf to confirm that to be the case.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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You are not obliged to accept Med.

Your request to have the case moved to your home court is likely to need an application on notice.

You can of course try writing to the Court Manager but it would still need to be put before a Judge.


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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It HAS to be moved to ypur local court. Totally push this, as suggested, Brighton is totally AMEX home ground.... there is a total conspiracy here if it is not move to your local court.

 

Maybe there is another case within the main case if they leave it in Brighton !!!

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To the Court Manager XXXXXXX Court.

 

To be put before the Judge.

 

Dear Sir/Madam.

 

 

I am the defendant in the above case,and a litigant in person.

I respectfully ask the Court that all proceedings in relation to this matter be transferred to my home Court at XXXXXX.

As a litigant in person,I have limited funding and resources,in contrast to the Claimant who is a well sourced institution.

 

Should you require this request to be made by way of application on notice,then I request that you will inform me of this as soon as possible.I can be contacted on XXXXXXXX

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

XXXXXXXXXX


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Thank you, I will push for this to be moved.

 

Much appreciated, will update tomorrow.

 

Take care

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Hello PN!

 

Here's the Thread on Mediation I was thinking about, couldn't find it at first as it was not started by the person I thought! But there's a good Post within the Thread by Gizmo111 and that's what I wanted you to read:

 

Mediation - a bad idea

 

The issue of getting the Case moved is critical, as Baggio has indicated as well. Brighton is heavily pro-Amex because of the income stream they bring to the Town.

 

There is something very fishy about it being stuck there after your Defence went in. That's because, as an individual, the Case should've been moved automatically to your Home Court once your Defence went in. That's the trigger, and it should've been moved straight away.

 

There will be a CPR reference for this but I can't find it at the moment. But there's no doubt that the Case should've been moved. Keeping it at the Amex Home Court is not correct. It would only stay put if you were a Limited Company, i.e. not an individual.

 

Martin3030's letter should be sent off ASAP.

 

Follow that up straight away with Calls, whatever it takes, but get it away from there no matter what.

 

If nothing else, getting the Case moved will delay things and buy you a little more time to think while it is being moved.

 

But Brighton is Apache Territory as far as your chance of a fair hearing goes!

 

Cheers,

BRW

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Hello PN!

 

One last thing before I head off to my pit...

 

If you can, get a Copy of Patricia Pearl's book:

 

pearl.jpg

 

Small Claims Procedure

by Judge Patricia Pearl

 

The link takes you to the CAG PayPal Screen where you can buy it on-line.

 

It's very good, and may fill in some of the blanks for you.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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Echoed BRW.

For a more speedy conclusion you can always Fax the letter TO BCC and follow up with a call.(give em 30 mins)

It just makes things easier that somethings there in writing....and saves the hassle of having to do it if they request it....so nothing lost-everything covered !


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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I just phoned the court, and they received the letter I had sent in requesting the transfer to my local court. My file is with the judge at the moment, and they have asked me to phone back after 4.00pm today as they will have confirmation that he agrees to the transfer. They did say that it should have automatically been transferred, so they can't see an issue with it!

 

I'll update later on.

 

Thanks everyone

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