Citibank Communication breakdown

[thereisanotherway]

Hi,

 

Don't really know where to start with this one, but here goes!

 

Sent CCA to citibank (for credit card) on 10th Oct. - still not signed for (22nd). Can't seem to get to speak to anyone at Royal Mail about it, so now thinking of sending stuff by Special Delivery to them.

 

Problem is despite adivsing them they I couldn't pay minimum amounts etc. they have continued to charge interest, late fees and now overlimit fees, default sums.

 

Statement has just come along with a 12 page document entitled "Notice to Cardholders; Change to your Terms and Conditions and Insurance Policy Documents" Is everyone getting one or is it a very lame fob off for a CCA?

 

As I haven't actually said "in dispute" in previous letters, I was thinking another CCA - mentioning that the account is in dispute, and an SAR - what would be the best address?

Also shall I stick any other letters in there?

 

Thanks

[reallymadwoman]

Did you pay by postal order or cheque, and has it been cashed? It wouldn't be the first time something send 'recorded-signed' for has been delivered but not signed for. I'd personally give it a bit longer before you give up and pay again.

[thereisanotherway]

Hi reallymadwoman,

I paid by PO - do you know if there's anywhere to check online? Just phoned the number found on here (after receiving your message), but they've changed departments given another number(s) to call 01246 542 091/500. Unfortunately they go home at 5.

Will try again tomorrow and post results!

[reallymadwoman]

I don't think there is anyway you could check online.

[silverfox1961]

I don't think there is anyway you could check online.

 

As far as I'm aware you cannot check if a postal order has been cashed online. The only way I know is to ring the number that you can get from the post office.

[thereisanotherway]

Thanks both - My searches haven't come up with anything either - so it will have to wait 'till morning........

[elsinore]

Sent CCA to citibank (for credit card) on 10th Oct. - still not signed for (22nd).

 

Which address did you send your CCA to, TIAW?

 

Els

[thereisanotherway]

Hi Els, Sent to; PO Box 49920, London, SE5 7ZF (where they had said they were writing from) - was this a bad move?!

[thereisanotherway]

Update:

Just spoken to a very nice man in the postal order department and he has told me that the PO sent to Citi was banked on 14th October - so I'll take the 12+2 from there, so I guess that gives them 'till the end of the month.

I won't be holding my breath

[elsinore]

Hi Els, Sent to; PO Box 49920, London, SE5 7ZF (where they had said they were writing from) - was this a bad move?!

 

It depends; is it Citibank or Citifinancial (Citicards)?

As it happens, you now know that it has arrived, so you should get a response in due course.

Els

[thereisanotherway]

Hi Els,

Just for interest it is citicards or as you say citifinancial. Interested to see what they come up with - it's been a long time!

[Enron]

Citi are sending out copies of current Terms & Conditions which they believe fulfill the criteria of a CCA request.

 

Of course it doesnt, but they are somewhat a law unto themselves - as they should send a copy of the most recent T&C along with the original executed agreement to comply with a CCA request.

 

You can try arguing with them until you are blue in the face but this is likely they're strategy that they are deploying where they cannot find the original signed agreement - happened to me as well.

 

It is likely that you will be defaulted after 3-4 months without a default notice being sent - the credit reference agencies are paid by Citi to retain information, and as such will do whatever Citi say, in my instance I continue to be referred to contact Citi - who ignore my letters.

 

I would suggest filing a complaint with the FOS, though we know on here that Citi do not co-operate with them ignoring there requests for documentation.

 

So the only course for resolution is likely to be court - unless you can live with the default for 6 years, plus side is that without the original executed agreement they will find it difficult to persue the alleged debt through the courts.

[thereisanotherway]

Hi Enron,

Thanks for your comments. I also had a People's Bank card from the 90's!

I've just been reading your thread and also SteveH2508's comments and so I know a little bit more about what to expect from them - if they decide to start communicating with me.......

I tend to agree with Steve that No CCA = No further payments from me!

I'm not really bothered about getting a default (that shouldn't really be there anyway) - it'll give me something else to complain about.

Best wishes TIAW

[Enron]

No doubt you've had Citi's Indian call centres badgering you to make payments.

 

Basically without an executed agreement they would find it very hard to persue you through the courts - they have to produce the original at hearing as part of CPR regulations.

 

So what we have is a game of bluff, Citi sending recent/current Terms & Conditions to fulfill a CCA request - in the hope that you accept it and continue to make payments (even if the account is in dispute). You should see the letter justifying late 07 T&C as being an executed agreement.... would be laughing, if their deception wasnt so serious.

 

The credit reference agencies will continue to record a default against someones file - even though Citi are unable to produce any signed documentation, both Call Credit and Experian have said that they will only remove as a result of a court order. But then again they were unlikely to go against the wishes of someone who pays them to retain said Data. To their credit Experian were not satisfied and removed the default.

 

I'm contemplating legal action against Citi over this, effectively they dont have the documentation, but have proceeded request payments on the alleged debt, default the account etc. So would certainly make interesting proceedings.

[thereisanotherway]

Things have been strangely quiet on the phones - I've only received a couple of lame 'phone us to discuss your situation letters' so far....haven't checked recently to see if they've updated my credit file (been too busy buying £1 postal orders!)

 

How do the CRA's get away with recording the information without documentation?

Is there someone we can report them too?

Are Citi allowed to pay them?

 

It certainly would make an interesting hearing, although without an agreement how far would it get?

[thereisanotherway]

Latest from Citi,

Received a 'Pending Default' letter today (29th) - dated 21st Oct. wanting a response within 7 days of reciving the letter, why did the letter take 8 days to arrive? (when will they expect a response by?)

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq154/thereisanotherway/citibank.jpg

In the meantime they will default on my CCA request if I don't hear anything by Monday.

Should I respond to this letter, or should I wait until Monday to see if they send CCA?

Thanks

[Enron]

There is the possibility that they could come up with the CCA, at which point if it is enforceable they could request the full amount.

 

The decision is upto you, however if they dont supply it technically they should not be defaulting you.... though they likely will and claim that the T&C are your executed agreement which is bull.

 

But as with all things some banks believe that they are above the law.

 

I've got a feeling that default notice is not correct, but would have to confer with someone on that point, will get them to take a look, but then again at least you got one - I was defaulted without receiving one (technically making the default unlawful).

[thereisanotherway]

Thanks Enron,

Your thoughts are much appreciated. There's no way I can pay the full amount, so hopefully there'll be a Plan B!

I may just send them a note to say their letter was received on 29th.

Any more thoughts on the validity of this notice welcome......

Edited October 30, 2008 by thereisanotherway
spelling!

[reallymadwoman]

Personally I would do nothing until after Monday. I would keep hold of the envelope it came in though and write on it the date it was received.

[thereisanotherway]

Thanks RMW - sound advice, I'll sit tight. So annoying that the letters don't have postmarks on anymore!

[thereisanotherway]

OK, Surprise Surprise no CCA from Citi - what is my best next step?

Thanks

[Enron]

As with all these things the decision is yours.

 

However in light that they have not provided you with a copy of the executed agreement, as par the s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 they are legally unentitled to enforce the agreement against you - until they produce an agreement.

 

If you instance is anything like mine they will provide you with a copy of the current Terms & Conditions, which do not fulfill the CCA request, but they will stick to their guns and give you a poor excuse as to why it does fulfill their obligation.

 

What is likely if you cease making payments they will continue with their standard process, get indian call centres to badger you for payments and then default you.

 

If you believe the calls amount to harassment get in touch with Salford trading standards, or your local trading standards department - in my instance stating that you'd persue legal action worked.... got the paperwork ready if they recommence.

Edited November 4, 2008 by Enron

[MARTIN3030]

Try this one and modify to suit.

 

Pre action protocols before litigation. (Can be used in both scenarios where you are indicating Court action or they are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Their address

 

 

date ****NOTICE UNDER CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES***

 

reference

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

This is in acknowledgement of your letter dated ................and also of .............The contents of which have beed duly noted.

Further to you stressing that County Court proceedings will be actioned by yourselves should I fail to make contact/stressing that proccedings are about to be commenced in regard to alleged sums outstanding and alleged owed by me on the above account,I remind you of Civil procedure rules protocols.

 

 

I put forward that you now have a requirement to provide me with;

 

 

1) A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. Please note that a "true copy" as defined by the Consumer Credit Act will not be acceptable in this case, and a copy of the actual executed agreement, including signature, is required.

 

2) All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to

 

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, payments and both the amounts of credit and any repayments made to the account.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations

3. Where there has been any event in the account history over this period that has required manual intervention by any person, disclosure of any indication or notes that have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account held by me with........... is required.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I make this request to ensure that each party has equal footings which can allow action to proceed speedily fairly and without undue costs or waste of courts time,as defined within Pre-action Practice Directions -Protocols 4.6 of the Civil Procedures Rules.

I will give you 14 days to respond with the above,failure to comply will result in a complaint being made to the Court./In addition to the FOS for any breaches of OFT and CCA codes.This includes breaches as a result of initiating a Country Court claim where failing to provide or produce documents make litigation improper..

Specifically this relates to one or any number of the following;

 

* demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* add any further interest or charges to the account.

* pass/sell the account or outstanding balance to any third party.

* register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.

* issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Furthermore,I reserve my right to make a copy of this letter available for inspection to the Court and Financial/Consumer regulators should you fail to comply with this request.

I await your response,and should you need further clarification on any of the above points,then I suggest that you direct them to your legal department.

 

 

 

Yours Faithfully/Sincerely

 

 

 

 

......................... . (not to be signed) Print name

 

 

Dated..........

 

 

 

Add ammend or delete those parts that apply in your case.Send recorded delivery.

[thereisanotherway]

Thanks again Enron for your pearls of Wisdom.

 

Thanks also Martin for a wicked letter - will send citi a personalised version as soon as cashflow permits!

 

Citi have just sent a current CCA with covering letter - 'we regret to inform you that section 78 CCA 1974 does not require citifinancial to provide you with a copy of the executed agreement as you appear to believe.' and other such squirming sentences. Quoting 180 Power to prescribe form etc of copies.

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq154/thereisanotherway/citibank2.jpg

 

Does this mean they haven't got my CCA? If they had, surely they'd just send it, instead of another copy of current t&c's to fob me off with?

[MARTIN3030]

They have not complied then.