Plan to ease repossession rates

[tonycee]

BBC NEWS | Business | Plan to ease repossession rates

[Ell-enn]

I should think so too!! some of these lenders think that advising their customers to get legal advice or contact the CAB while issuing court papers is OK - it's damn well NOT:mad:

 

They should have a variety of options to put to the customer to see if they could work something out and then be able to prove to the court by way of a paper trail that it wasn't suitable (and why).

 

Of course I haven't taken into consideration those people who are so scared when they start receiving arrears letters that they cannot bear to contact the lender:(

 

I've lost count of the number of times people who are weeks away from repossession/eviction have said they wished they had found this site earlier.

[Mr lex]

With you all the way Ell-enn,

 

Lets hope this 'guidance' gets to the courts soon. and lets hope the lenders pay more than lip service to it.

 

Lex

[tonycee]

ARE YOU WATCHING MERV ?

[jansus]

Ell-enn

would just like to say what an excellent jo you do on here.

 

I am trying to help cases on another site.

 

where should I look for the protocol and guidelines

[Ell-enn]

Thank you

 

here's the link you need http://www.civiljusticecouncil.gov.uk/files/cjc-new-pre-action-protocol-mort-poss-cases.pdf

 

and here (full version) http://www.civiljusticecouncil.gov.uk/files/Mortgage_Pre-Action_protocol_21_Oct.pdf

 

 

Ell

[jansus]

thanks that will be really useful.

 

I would just like to add that we have had one case where a possession order had been granted for arrears - but we did manage to get the bank charges repaid ( different bank ) on the basis that they were paid to reduce the arrears . We used the new tems of the waiver agreement for hardship and the claimant was very pro-active and fought tooth and nail.

 

At least he has had a breathing space to try and get his life back in order and I think hat is what you have been doing here. If there is any chance of maintaining payments then people should be given a chance. I would also like to see the financial institutions take some responsibility for the lending ratios they have allowed. They should take a longer term view as they are the ones that have got us into this mess,

 

I also think there should be more leniancy in letting borrowers sub-let if it helps the situation.And where are all the shared ownership schemes the government talked about?

 

I also think there should be clearer help for borrowers about what possesion means the fees involved and the fact that the balance of monies can be chased for years afterwards.

 

Also regulation regarding the sale/auction of properties should be in place not just guidelines.

 

rant over

 

thanks again

[jansus]

Also in the case mentioned above there was quite a lot vof research into the very nasty "all monies clause" which a lot of customers dont know they have signed up to.

 

It seems to take away some of the courts powers and is likely to come up a few more times in possession cases I would imagine.

[Ell-enn]

I'd be interested to hear what result your research found regarding that Jansus

[jansus]

unfortunately I am not allowed to link to the thread and not allowed pms .

 

Dont worry I am not that bad.

 

It is a very long thread - but to summarise I think the poster only owed a small amount of arrears and I think there was a personal loan as well. Under the all monies clause the loan arrears can then cause the property to be taken as well even though it is an unsecured loan. This was with a big major bank as well. When it went to court the judge was not able to over ride the clause and possession was granted. The only way it was removed was by an appeal to Fred Goodwin directly who delayed the action whilst the bank charges were reclaimed under the new terms of the waiver ( from another bank)

 

Also if you have an offsett mortgage and the clause is present they can immediately take your savings to repay any arrears without notice.

 

In the case I am talking about the customers solicitor had not heard of the clause and did not how to handle it.

 

The person in this case had no idea that there was an All monies clause on his mortgage so was very shocked. When you read up on the internet it seems that th FSA in the past have condemmed the clause and the impression is that they are not common. But maybe the banks have just not chosen to use it in court very often.

 

If you need any more info I will copy and paste some - I think I am allowed to do that.

[jansus]

Mortgages Repayable on Demand -

Section 8 of the AJA 1973 applies to

instalment mortgages (most

household mortgages) because the

repayment of the balance is deferred

by payment of the instalments.

Repayable on demand mortgages

(or all monies charges) contain no

provision for early repayment.

Section 8 therefore does not apply to

repayable on demand mortgages

because under these mortgages the

monies are not repayable at all until

a written demand has been made.

Therefore, in order for the Court to

adjourn or suspend possession, the

mortgagor must show that they are

able to repay the full balance

outstanding on the mortgage within

a reasonable period of time.

[Ell-enn]

Hi, thanks - I know what the all monies clause is, I thought you might have heard of a way round it. Looks like it's enforceable though

[jansus]

I thought I found one case in N ireland

 

but i did not understand the ruling

 

And it was quite a long time ago.

[jansus]

papers issued by the Northern Ireland High Court Of Justice of a case between Northern Bank Plc and Thomas John Sterling McKinstry & Linda Patricia McKinstry in 2001.

[jansus]

We tried this as well

 

4. Finally, under EC directives, a contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

 

These unfair terms include: Making an agreement binding on the consumer whereas provision of services by the seller or supplier is subject to a condition whose realization depends on his own will; Requires any consumer who fails to fulfill his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation; Irrevocably binds the consumer to terms with which he had no real opportunity of becoming acquainted with before the conclusion of the contract; Enables the seller or supplier to alter the terms of the contract unilaterally without a valid reason which is specified in the contract.

[jansus]

Hi, thanks - I know what the all monies clause is, I thought you might have heard of a way round it. Looks like it's enforceable though

 

 

By the way sorry

 

I should have known you knew what this was - I can see by your posts the depth of your knowledge. I am only an ex BS employee who used to deal with possessions. I do not have legal knowledge.

 

In my day we would never have treated people the way they are being treated now.

[Ell-enn]

no need to apologise:) we can all help each other to ensure people keep their homes wherever possible

[Justhadenough]

Hi all,

 

The dreaded “all monies”.

 

The master in the Thomas John Sterling McKinstry & Linda Patricia McKinstry in 2001. Ruled on the second hearing and upheld the Northern Banks claim.

The argument was if the “all Monies” was transferable to all loans. Even taken out after the initial loan.

I have a case with the FOS. For almost a year and half trying to work out the “all monies”.

The Cliff notes:

 

Remortgaged family home with a different lender, solicitor applies to the bank for a settlement figure on the account, the bank faxes figure to solicitor he then settles account gives the difference to myself and off we go.

 

A week later bank returns solicitors cheque claiming the home was subject to the “all monies” clause on the business account. Bank and solicitor have an argument over the amount, I have no idea this is going on,Buisness, fails a year later ,the bank sell off my assets that they have, leave a balance of £1200.00 outstanding. Unknown to me the bank stayed on the deeds as a second charge or as they put it deferred their first charge. 5 years later I go to sell the house and get a whooping £19k bill from the bank made up of interest and charges! Had to settle on paying them £14k so the sale would go thru. As for The FOS. One adductor upheld the complaint asked the bank to make an offer, before the bank makes an offer the adjudicator leaves without notice, the new adjudicator takes over disagrees with the first one, and upholds the complaint in part. The saga continues and we are heading for a 2 year case with the FOS.!

[jansus]

On my research the thing that I found amazing is that when these cases go to court the clause seems to over rule any choice in decisions that the judge normally has. As far as i understand he can not offer a suspended order if the clause is used. And yet when you read up on the clause it is considered unfair and most people who have come up against it were not even aware they had signed up to it.

 

Even more of a worry when so many banks are amalgamating as you may have loans and mortgages with the same "licence holder" when that was not your original intention.

[tonycee]

UK interest rates slashed to 3%

 

 

So. The BOE reduce rates to 3% the day after Abbey increase theirs.

 

Abbey raises some mortgage rates

 

Sums it up IMO.

[jansus]

Yes exactly - they thought they would grab at money all ways to try and "balance the books" a bit. Impossible task I would have thought.

 

So much for the guidelines and all the help they are supposed to be giving. I dont think there will ever be trust again. They seemed to be have to be forced into every decision at the moment.

 

But the few banks that are pasing on rate cuts without intervention are those that I think customers will soon learn to have more confidence in and will hopefully gain business when and if we start to recover from this mess.