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    • Amex as with any creditor must help you the FOS should go with you and make them remove all interest charged from the very 1st time of asking for help. the FCA regulations actually almost dictate it, they most certainly clearly state that if the are FCA registered they must help.   it's very telling they have no marked your credit file....almost as if they know they are wrong. it's also telling that an irresponsible lending complaint might well be in order hear too, they can just keep upping the credit limit without checking you can pay. and ofcourse covid plays its part here and they've already admitted as they allowed payments holidays until october in line with the rest of the industry and they should be continuing that. you problem is you keep using the phone, no paperwork no record of things discussed. i'd get an SAR off to them. and get the comms/account log and all the statements from day one and go nail them.
    • Hello CAG, Bit of a long post, may want to get a cuppa before starting reading... 😁   after being a lurker for many years and trying never to get into a mess with credit cards like i did 20 years ago, i've got myself into a mess with Amex... I've tried being open and honest with them, but now getting the feeling they are messing me around.    Its not a chargecard, but a Nectar Credit Card with them. TAKEN out 2016. Balance is just under £15k as of today, was almost at £17k.  Debt still owed by Amex, not been sent to NCO/Arrow etc - YET...    Background (short version): Was all fine with more than min. payment (£500 or so), being made until April 2020 when a number of things reduced my monthly salary from work (mainly, take a pay cut or be made redundant), so I soon quickly realised i needed to tighten my belt quickly. Phoned Amex, advisor said nothing they could do except Payment Holiday. Was put onto that for 3 months, told that Amex will be in touch at the end to restart payments. I asked about interest being stopped/frozen/reduced - not possible. So agreed to payment holiday to give me breathing space. 3 months came and went, no contact from Amex... No payments made, interest still racking up at around £300 a month...    Rang Amex back (July 2020), we cant do anything today because your in the middle of the statement cycle call back next week. Called back week after, no solution yet (i asked about things i seen on Amex US website = Regain program - basically freeze card, lower interest rate and pay a set amount for 12 months - more about this later) > Not available in UK yet.   Want to stay on payment holiday Mister B? I asked if there was any way interest could be stopped as this is making the balance increase and increase. No. Do you want to stay on Payment Holiday? Ok. (Bear in mind, if i came off Payment holiday. Minimum Payment was around £570 per month.  So, stayed on payment holiday... Didnt hear anything from Amex again. Called back up in September 2020. Please call back in October after 10th and we can assist.   Called back after October 10, went through loads of stuff, different options etc, was warned that Payment Holiday might not be extended much longer, but now have a program. Worked out with Amex woman that i could pay around £200 per month. But please stop interest - no we cant but we can reduce this down to 9.9APR instead of 23%... . Amex woman said she needed to submit details to 'Seniors' at Amex, please call back next week for update.   Called back week after, advised that first Amex woman was wrong and had made mistakes, shouldn't have told me what she had told me, £200 is too low, minimum would be £389 per month for 12 months or account will default. Told Amex woman 2 that couldn't afford it, went through this last time, etc etc. Amex woman 2 went off, came back, £329.74 is minimum they can possibly accept, 12 months at that amount per month and interest would be lowered, but not stopped. If you dont take out this 'Program' then account will default and will be passed to NCO or Arrow (I hate them both).  Went off, tried to get loans etc, all refused. Rang Amex back, reluctantly agreed so i can keep credit rating at 'good'.  So, been paying since Nov 2021 @ £329.74.    Letter arrived in December - due to out mess up with moving accounts around whilst on payment holiday, we are going to give you £3074 back. Logged into account, only £30.74 refunded, not £3074. Phoned Amex cos thought it was a joke/mistake - Spoke to some bloke - Oh dont worry, the rest will be applied to account automatically in 7 days. he advised was genuine but then got cut off during call. Called back, spoke to some other bloke, yes, looks genuine but please hold... Came back 10 minutes later. Oh, its a mis-print, you are not the only customer to receive one of these. Each should have been £30.74 not £3074. Me = Gutted.    Wrote a letter to Amex saying how dissatisfied i was with general customer service and felt they were incompetent, blah blah etc. Final response received, Complaint partially upheld, heres £150 credit because we were a bit silly, but thats it. IF your still not happy, go to FOS. Opened a case with FOS... Have sent them the complaint letter to them and have had a call from them about this... FOS are backlogged though and will take another 3 months for complaint to be looked at by them.   Let me make this 100% clear, fully admit to owning the debt, yep, ive spent this money (wish I knew what on, cos having got much to show from it - just general stuff and holidays)... Not trying to shirk out of it, trying my best to keep up with re-payments but im really struggling. After I got paid on 1st April, after paying all outgoings i had £9.83 left in current account so am having to go into overdraft each month which is just a vicious circle.  I would really like to NOT have to down the default route and trash my credit rating and then have to deal with the morons at NCO / Arrow etc.    Meanwhile, this is where I need the advice of the CAG experts... - Credit Limit increases... These were coming every few months and it was just being upped and upped and upped. Credit limit eventually was stopped at £15,400. Some of the increases I never even received letter for, just noticed when I logged into account. >>>> Would this be a case for irresponsible lending?   - Stopping interest - I've read something on FCA site that they recommend (not policy) that if a customer is put onto a payment holiday then they recommend freezing interest for customer so the debt doesn't continue to build. I've asked time and time again, Amex just refuse.  >>>> Any tips on how to get Amex to play ball?    - Full & Final/Short settlement I've rung Amex today, told them I might be able to pay it off. Initially they said full balance, i then pushed, they then said they would accept 80% of balance, pushed them a bit more, got it down to 70%. >>> Surprised, and then very surprised they would accept 70%, anyone else think this is a bit odd? Normally they wont budge, or they wont budge from their first offer... Could their be something wrong on account (missing CCA etc?), or do they want rid of me and account as much as I do with them?   - Cant really keep going at these £329.74 repayments. Something is going to have to give somewhere. I believe they wont go any lower and they will just default it i send £100 instead of £329 and send it out to NCO/Arrow. This might not be a too bad thing though because this would stop the interest right? Anyone thoughts on this?    Anyone think of anything else I could try with them? Again, its still with Amex, not defaulted or anything yet, yep, its all my own fault, i've spent the money, dont deny that, just feel Amex have took advantage etc.   Many thanks for reading. Any advice is greatly appreciated.   Kr, Mista B.     
    • Ok so we have complained to HMRC but were still no further forward with getting the P45/P60. We need this as DVLA has said they need more proof of who he is before giving him a provisional license.  What more can l do. 
    • Hi All   just looking for some advice. I bought a used Porsche Boxster from one of Marshall motor group’s Audi dealers (can I name them?) recently and was assured that it received a major service in October 2020 in line with the manufacturers requirements. The service book confirms this. The dealer also told me on the phone that they have a 6 month rule with any mot or service being done if due within this period which assured me when making an offer over the phone on the car that it wouldn’t need anything doing for a while as I recall saying that.   However, digging through the receipts post delivery I saw that the service was in fact minor and after calling the specialist who serviced it in Oct both they (Sheepishly) and the invoice confirmed that the car did not receive new spark plugs, an air filter, brake fluid replacement or a new fan belt which have now all fallen due and hence the major service due warning light. Had I not investigated this then the car would have potentially gone another 4 years, so 8 in total without some of these items being done.   i emailed the salesman to ask what they would propose to do. The matter is complicated by my living 450 miles away in Scotland, and 200 from their nearest branch, a Mercedes dealer in the Lake District, so I suggested getting my cheapest local specialist to do the works that have fallen due, however I have received no response.   Whilst I am still within my 30 days i don’t want to reject the car, which is otherwise perfect, but the fact remains that the Audi 150 point check only asks for upcoming mot’s to be checked and not services and surely you wouldn’t buy an approved used car and expect to have the service light come on 2 weeks later and have to spend almost £500 putting it right.   i would really appreciate some advice on next steps and perhaps who to escalate this to. Meantime the car is booked in for 2 weeks time to get the work done at the cheapest reputable place I could find.   Many, many thanks in advance
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Default Notice Re-Issue


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Thanks again BRW. I've noticed a lot of creditors seem to be taking court action where before they might not have done, or at least have thought twice - Cabot are currently trying to enforce a non-enforceable MBNA agreement for £15,000 (where they get that figure I really don't know). They all seem to be coming out of the woodwork at the moment.

 

Really appreciated your wise words of wisdom and will keep you posted how it goes.

 

Best regards,

 

Magda

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PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

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  • 4 months later...

Hi all,

Just curious about something,.when an account has had no activity for many years, a single one off payment accepted, then many years pass and discover the debt hasnt gone away, but was passed to debt agency.

Whats the permitted time for them to issue the new default notice if there has been no activity on account for more than 4 plus years. The present outstanding sum is £130 ....so they say, and default placed on Credit file 26th of april 2010

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Statute of limitation is 6 years, so if you haven't sent any communication acknowledging the debt in the last 6 years, then they cannot enforce.

 

They also cannot enforce if no valid default notice has been issued. If they've already terminated the account, then they cannot 're-issue' a default notice.

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

 

Me vs Rockwell/Tessara/RBofS: pending.

Me vs MBNA/1st Crud: Discontinued.

First Direct Overdraft: CCJ won.

IR: 2 CCJs 1 won.

Birmingham Midshires: pending

BT: pending

others to come....

 

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  • 4 months later...

Hi cagers,

 

Can someone please confirm that the re-issue of a DN after a wrongful termination is in valid as the contract is no longer live??

 

My solicitor is telling me that even though the claimant issued a Termination notice without a DN, they then corrected the issue by issuing a DN and then a more 'valid' Termination notice therefore they rectified their mistake and I in turn have no case!!

 

Thanks.

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A creditor can terminate an agreement at any time of their own free will. Nobody can force them to continue with it.

 

HOWEVER if they ever want to see their money back they have to conform to the rules of the CCA.

 

BUT you will have to show that 'a reasonable man' would believe that the account was indeed terminated ( a letter from them saying we have terminated your account is quite a good one)

 

If they also stopped sending statements between termination and new DN that also indicates that they themselves believed the account was no longer 'live'

 

Issuing a DN on a terminated account is absurd as the wording of teh DN itself makes it clear that if the default is rectified then the default would be treated as never having happened - well if you've had to destroy your cards and already refused credit etc etc then again that makes the DN plainly invalid

 

jmho though ....

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Hi cagers,

 

Can someone please confirm that the re-issue of a DN after a wrongful termination is in valid as the contract is no longer live??

 

My solicitor is telling me that even though the claimant issued a Termination notice without a DN, they then corrected the issue by issuing a DN and then a more 'valid' Termination notice therefore they rectified their mistake and I in turn have no case!!

 

Thanks.

 

Yes he is correct.

 

If the defaqult was not corrctly formated then the orriginal termination was also invalid, thus the ccount was still active, enabling the second default.

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BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Yes he is correct.

 

If the defaqult was not corrctly formated then the orriginal termination was also invalid, thus the ccount was still active, enabling the second default.

 

So creditors can now get the default notice wrong or terminate without a default notice as long as they correct the default notice at a later date and re terminate?

Then a faulty DN no longer stands as a defence?

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Well, there you have the 2 opinions :-)

 

I'd love to see someone take a creditor to Court for terminating an account without a valid DN and not getting their money back - I wonder where the damage would be shown.

 

Just because a law says you can't do something does not mean it cannot be done .....

You MUST NOT exceed the speed limit it is the Law, however you can of your own free will (and perhaps face the consequences) why can't a creditor terminate an agreement??

 

Just because the Law says you cannot do something - does that mean you can just do it and then say ooops because the Law says I can't do it that means I never actually did it??

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@Peter - To follow on from this - if a creditor takes you to Court on the back of a faulty DN and loses - are you saying that they could then following the loss at Court - re-issue a valid DN and tehn take action again. After all it would not be another action on the same matter as this time it would be on the back of a valid DN a very different matter.

At what point is an account terminated .....

 

Recently a creditor closed one of my account and wrote of the balance - now, I was in default and they had sent a DN (invalid) so again are you saying that that account is still 'live and kicking' and could be resurrected at any time ....

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hi im having some problems myself at the mo and have an invalid default notice, i just wanted to thank you all for some really great advice in this thread, brilliant stuff!!!!

 

Well it would seem it's not as simple as having an invalid DN anymore, creditors can apparently correct their mistakes!

 

Have you come across this also George??

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@Peter - To follow on from this - if a creditor takes you to Court on the back of a faulty DN and loses - are you saying that they could then following the loss at Court - re-issue a valid DN and tehn take action again. After all it would not be another action on the same matter as this time it would be on the back of a valid DN a very different matter.

At what point is an account terminated .....

 

Recently a creditor closed one of my account and wrote of the balance - now, I was in default and they had sent a DN (invalid) so again are you saying that that account is still 'live and kicking' and could be resurrected at any time ....

 

In my case, they terminated. Then sent a DN and terminated again. Then sent another DN and Terminated again. I accepted the TN the first time around but they continued the contract then eventually took me to court.

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Can anyone please confirm which is the more proven case out of the two options provided above?

I have to decide if I am to have my case set aside (as the court went ahead without notice the first time) but I don't want to challenge a case that may now be deemed pointless if the claimants can rectify an unlawful termination with a second DN and termination and a third DN and termination when the first termination was accepted by me.

Many thanks for your help!

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Hi all I now have the same problem i have an account that was terminated with no DN, which i accepted and this was then folled by a DN and another termination.

All the advice so far has been that a terminated account is just that, and if the creditor then tries to rectify by further issuind a dn and tn then this is not allowed.the wording of the act ould suggest this is the case.

although the creditor has not started action , even tho ive made no payments since sept 2008, i keep getting threat o grams but if they do issue a claim i need to also know if the defence is valid!

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I got a solicitor a year ago, informed him of the DN sent after the unlawful termination and he agreed to represent me. I then received a judgment for delivery of good and full payment forthwith to which I didn't understand. The solicitor told me it had gone to court without us so he would get it set aside but in the mean time he needed answers from the claimant to proceed.

They never responded so he left it, stating he presumes they have left it. In deed they hadn't.

A year later they present my solicitor withthe DN sent after the termination and appartent my chances are now unlikely to succeed. Thats after a year of interest accued on the sum and solicitor fees mind :-x

He has said he will still apply for the case to be set aside if I so want but it will be further costs.

I don't know what to do now :???:

I have a month before the charging order hearing too! :-(

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Well imho your solicitor isn't much cop allowing it to go to Court without you and letting them get away with adding post judgement interest which isn't allowed on CCA cases either.

 

Both arguments have been used. BUT neither has been appealed therefore AFAIK there is no binding precedent.

 

IMHO it has all depended on a) how well the defendant's case was put and b) the Judge's lottery (although again IMHO I would put far more on point a than b)

 

There was a recent case in CC where the claimant put forward PB's stance as a proposed solution having lost because of a faulty DN and the DJ dismissed it out of hand. Not because of bringing a 2nd case but because the agreement was terminated. I'll try and dig it out.

 

Why not put my argument to your solicitor and ask them to explain .....

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Also are you saying post judgment interest isn't allowed on CCA cases? They are adding 2% every month in my case!

The thing with my solicitor is that he specialises in these case however and there is a big however, he defends a lot of creditors. I'm concerned, and this is without prejudice, that they are not acting in my best interest.

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2% - Ok, so they are claiming contractual interest. Is there a provision for that in the agreement?

 

PB = PeterBard

 

If your solicitor normally works for the creditors then and again this is just my opinion - it may be that they have not fully explored the other 'side of the coin' ....

 

As I said earlier, IMHO a creditor can terminate an account at any time.

The debtor would then theoretically have a case against them for breach of contract - however showing damage having taken their money would be difficult.

 

The CCA does not stop them doing a thing they are not allowed to do - the Law says you should keep your side of teh agreement too. When you stop repaying and you are not allowed to - does that mean that because you weren't allowed to that, in fact, it didn't happen ? .....

 

Also check out S98A(3) from teh new EU Directive

 

(3) Where a regulated open-end consumer credit agreement, other than an excluded

agreement, provides for termination of the agreement by the creditor—

(a) the termination must be by notice served on the debtor, and

(b) the termination may not take effect until after the end of the period of two months,

or such longer period as the agreement may provide, beginning with the day after

the day on which notice is served.

 

You will also notice that many credit agreement will have a clause stating that the creditor can terminate at any time. Now having signed the agreement - again you accepted that clause - (although you could have refused to accept it as unfair at the time)

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Yes there is provisions for contractual interest.

I totally get your point on the not happening question... how can a DN be served on an already terminated agreement! It's absurd.

If I punched someone and got arrested for assault, I couldn't then return to the time of impact and say ok 'hit me first' then claim I hit the person through self defence because I'd made a mistake, right!!

 

Yes the contract does state the creditor can terminate at any time but only once the payments are missed and the CCA process is followed.

 

I fear that my solicitor does not want me to win. You may say why haven't you jumped ship, well because he has been telling me it's all in my best interest but he has let this whole case spiral out of control to the point where I am worse off.

 

If I feel I have a case to defend I will pay the fees to have this set aside and take the risk but I need to gather all my evidence before I do so.

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My solicitor is also telling me it is more than likely a set aside application will be unsuccessful due to them having a DN after the termination. Is this case? Surely a DJ would give me the option to defend my case with good grounds?

I would have had the decision set aside immediately and have email proof of me requesting this of my solicitor who said timing was not an issue as it is them delaying the issue.

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Ok, you are probably best off, starting your own thread, and post the whole story there. Post a link to it in this thread so that everyone who wants to can follow

 

There may be other issue as well that have been missed.

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