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Uptoneck vs BC (Visa)

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Uptoneck vs Barclaycard: What should I do now?

 

I've been having an ongoing issue with Barclaycard for some months now. We seem to have reached an impasse, and I'm not sure what to do next.

 

Admittedly this post is rather long, but please bear with me. I seem to be getting the run around from BC. I've posted bits and pieces of this elsewhere on the forum, but feel I should bring things together on my own thread. Any input and advice from fellow CAG members would be much appreciated.

 

I started a new business last year, and (long story short) it's not been doing as well as I had hoped. Most of my creditors have agreed to let me make token payments of £1 until I can get things sorted out. Even Crapital 1 reluctantly agreed after some haggling. The sole exception is Barclaycard -- which on the face of it seems pretty stupid as I have banked with Barclays for 23 years, so they know my financial position (skint) better than anyone.

 

I have a Barclaycard Visa and a Mastercard. I've had the Visa since 1987 when I got it as a cheque guarantee card.

 

After a continued period of abusive phone calls from Barclaycard and Mercers -- including one from a very rude woman who said "We won't accept a penny less than the minimum payment and arrears ..." and went on to make all sorts of thinly veiled threats which I won't repeat here -- I discovered this forum and decided to fight back.:)

 

Mercers sent me the usual default notices -- which I now know from this forum are rubbish.

The timeline of events since then is as follows:

 

15/15/08 Sent a CCA request

 

15/5/08 I wrote to Mercers informing them that I had requested my CCA and that all collection activity must be suspended.

 

16/5/08 Answered phone call from Mercers. Told their bod that the account is in dispute and that "it would be inappropriate of me to enter into any dialogue with you today, except to say that all communication should be in writing from now on." I also sent them a letter to this effect incorporating the "doorstep call" letter from the forum.

 

30/5/08 Received letter from Barclaycard in response to my CCA request telling me that they're dealing with my enquiry, but are unable to give a full reply at the moment.

 

5/6/08 Received a letter from ScotCall saying Mercers has passed the account on to them, that I should telephone them to pay the balance by debit card immediately or they will arrange a "doorstep call". I write back to say the accounts are in dispute, and include text from the doorstep call letter from the forum.

 

7/6/08 Received another letter from BC saying they're sorry to hear I'm dissatisfied with the level of service I've received from them and that "...the provision of a high level of service is important to Barclaycard"! :lol:

 

10/6/08 CCAs finally arrived. This is what they sent me. (yes, really). They also sent me what I assume is a copy of the latest terms and conditions.

 

Visa

CAG0004-1.gif

CAG0005.gif

CAG0006.gif

 

 

15/6/08 Letter from Mercers demanding I pay the entire balance of my Visa card immediately, or they'll send someone round.

 

16/6/08 Wrote to Mercers to complain about the number of telephone calls. Use telephone harassment letter template from the forum.

 

Not that Mercers took any notice. In fact, I've had so many phone calls from them (up to 6 a day at one point) that I've had to buy a new answering machine as they've literally worn the old one out!

 

17/6/08 Wrote to BC stating that I've now had time to study my Visa application form carefully, and note that it states "Under the terms and conditions set out overleaf" yet the terms and conditions I was sent run to two pages of A4 and are clearly not what is printed on the other side of the application form; moreover, the terms and conditions have no date. Ask how I can be assured they are the same terms and conditions I signed up to. Said that until I receive such an assurance, I consider the account to be in dispute.

 

23/6/08 Got the following "Final Response" letter from BC. It's so riddled with inaccuracies, I figured they must be getting me confused with someone else.

 

CAG0001.gif

CAG0002.gif

 

Wrote back pointing out all that they've got wrong , and restating what I really asked for.

 

28/6/08 Got the following letter from Power 2 Contact. My last letter to Mercers was signed for on the 17th, so this is utter rubbish.

24th June 2008

 

Dear Mr Uptoneck

 

P2C Reference: XXXXXXXXXX

Client Reference: XXXXXXXXXX

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE

 

Mercer Debt Collection has engaged power2contact Ltd, a specialist customer contact company, with many years experience of contacting hard to locate parties, to act on its behalf in relation to accounts such as yours where it has lost contact with cardholders.

 

We at power2contact Limited understand how easy it is to lose contact and we want to work with you, to help rebuild your relationship with Barclaycard

 

Mercer Debt Collection records indicate that they have had no recent contact with you and request that you call them on 0870 410 0389 immediately.

 

In the event that you fail to contact Mercer Debt Collection within 72 hours, we will instruct one of our Contact Managers to visit you at the above address to discuss, and hopefully resolve this matter with you.

Please telephone Mercer Debt Collection urgently on 0870 410 0389

Yours sincerely,

 

S. Grocott

For and on behalf of power2contact Limited

 

8/7/08 Doorstep call from someone representing Mercers. Sent him packing, but it could have been very embarrassing. Fired off a letter of complaint to Mercers restating that the accounts are in dispute, and I'm not obliged to make any payments until the dispute is settled.

 

9/7/08 Received a "48 Hour Notice" from Mercers (dated 4th July) .

 

12/7/08 Fired off a b****r off letter to hand to Mercers' rep so there's no discussion at the doorstep, but he never turned up.

 

17/7/08 After reading through the Consumer Credit Act Agreements thread on this forum, I decide to see if I might have a claim under s85. I can't afford £10 for a Data Protection Act request, but I do have statements going back several years to when my Visa card was "upgraded" to a Gold card. I didn't receive a copy of my agreement back then -- just a letter saying what a privilege it was that I was being upgraded along with the new card. I remember at the time thinking was pain in the backside it was being upgraded as the new card had a new number, and I had my broadband and mobile phone being charged to the card. I had to contact the companies and let them know the new number. My mobile phone didn't get changed over in time and was cut off for a while. I added up how much I'd been charged in interest and charges since the upgrade, and it turns out I've overpaid the account by more than £1,000!

 

Fired off a letter to BC with a spreadsheet and telling them they can send the refund cheque to my billing address!

 

19/7/08 Received the following letter from BC. I've edited the text slightly as it is quite specific and I don't want to give away my identity to the MIB. It reads like total c**p to me!

 

 

Dear Mr Uptoneck,

 

Reference: SECTION 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Barclaycard Account Number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx

 

I write further to your letter dated XXrd June 2008.

 

Firstly, please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to your letter.

I have noted the issues you feel are in contention and I have reviewed what has been sent to you. However, I deem this to be sufficient for the bank to have fulfilled its obligations under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Credit card agreements are regulated by Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Section 78 of this Act clearly determines a creditor only need supply a debtor a copy of the executed agreement, and a signed statement showing information which is practicable to refer.

The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 deal with how we are to provide a copy of an executed agreement. Regulation 7, shows that where an agreement has been varied, as in your case, a debtor shall include a copy of the latest variation of terms. Regulation 7 does not state that the copy shall include a statement of the original terms as well as a statement of the varied terms. Therefore, Regulation 7 allows us to provide you with a copy of the executed agreement containing the terms and conditions current at the time of supplying the copy.

 

Regarding a signed statement showing information which is practicable to refer, the letter you received with your executed agreement, dated 7th June 2008 fulfils this obligation. This confirms that what we have supplied you, fulfils the Bank's obligation under Section 78.

 

In your letter you state you have not been supplied with the requisite documents that section 78 entitles you to. I disagree with this. What has been sent to you is a clear copy of the executed agreement. Within this document the relevant conditions which are regulated by the consumer credit agreement are included. Further to this, you have also been provided with a copy of your application form [my italics]. This shows your signature and your personal information. All documents, other than the executed agreement were given to you for your convenience - Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 only requires us to provide you with the information stated above.

 

 

Regarding your application form, you state that it does not adhere to the prescribed form set by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Regulation 3(2)(a) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983, shows that when providing copy documents, any information included in an executed agreement can be omitted from other copy documents. This demonstrates that your copy application form need not contain all the elements contained within the executed agreement.

 

You should carry on paying the debt you have accrued on your account. We do not class the account as "in dispute", you have been supplied with the relevant documentation under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and we will carry on with collection services.

I hope this letter has helped with your concerns about the documents you have been supplied with under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

Surely if the 1983 Regs state that anything can be omitted from copy documents, then BC could satisfy its obligations by sending me a blank sheet of paper --- which would be contrary to the spirit of not the letter of the Act.

 

20/7/08 Received exactly the same letter from BC as I received on 30th May, only with a different date! Obviously the same one they send out to everyone.

 

30/7/08 Received another "Final Response" letter from BC. Word for word the same as the one they sent me on 23rd June! Only the dates are different. Fired off a letter to BC enclosing a copy of the former, and telling BC that if they think I'm going to be fobbed off they can think again.

 

2/8/08 After tracking down a copy of the 1983 regulations, I sent a letter to BC stating that it is my contention that Regulation 7 requires BC to send me a copy of the varied terms, but doesn't say they can substitute it for the original terms and conditions. Also point out that they refer to the Mastercard document sent in response to my CCA request as an "Application Form" and point out why I don't agree with their opinion that it conforms to the 1974 Act and 1983 Regs. Tell them I still regard the account as being in dispute.

 

8/8/08 Received a letter from Mercers demanding I pay my Visa balance in full, and listing all sorts of consequences if I don't pay up within 7 days -- including sending in the bailiffs. I know they can't do that without a court order, so don't bother to reply.

 

9/8/08 Received a letter from BC saying that if I pay 75% of the balance on my Visa card, they'll write off the remaining balance. I can't afford the minimum payment, let alone 75% of the balance, but take it as the first chink in their armour. Interesting that they're only making this offer on my Visa card. Would my s85 letter have prompted this, I wonder.

 

13/8/08 Received the following from BC:

 

 

8th September 2008

 

Reference: SECTION 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Barclaycard Account Number: XXXXXXXXXX

 

 

Dear Mr Uptoneck,

 

Thank you for your letter dated 2nd August 2008.

 

1 am sorry to here of your dissatisfaction with regard to the documents that were sent to you under the notion of section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

To address the issues you raise in your letter of 2nd August 2008. Firstly, you raise Regulation 7 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983. Regulation 7 provides creditors a choice of including in the executed agreement either a copy of the latest notice of variation relating to each discrete term which has been varied, or an easily legible statement of the terms varied.

 

Regulation 7 does not state that the copy of the agreement shall include a statement of the original terms as well as a statement of the varied terms. Therefore, Barclaycard has fulfilled its obligation by providing the terms and conditions current at the time of the provision of the copy.

 

Secondly, you dispute the conformity of your application form. In my letter dated 17th July 2008, I stated that it was not necessary to send you the application form under the premise of section 78; it was given for reference. Further, I mentioned Regulation 3(2)(a) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983. This shows that when providing copy documents, any information included in an executed agreement can be omitted from other copy documents. Therefore, your copy application form need not contain all the elements contained within the executed agreement.

 

To conclude, Barclaycard has fulfilled its duty under the principle of section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. You should continue to pay the debt you accrued as collection activities will continue on your accounts.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

12/8/08 Sent letters to Mercers based on the excellent letter posted here.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/123005-application-form-barclaycard-no-2.html#post1309513

 

10/9/08 Received the following from BC. This doesn't seem to be getting anywhere!

 

 

Barclaycard Account Number: XXXXXXXXXX

 

Final Response

 

Dear Mr Uptoneck,

 

I write further to your recent correspondence, details of which have been passed to me so I can clarify Barclaycard's position.

 

I would like to confirm I have today spoken to Mercers, as they are indeed dealing with your account at the moment. They have confirmed prior to a doorstep collector calling at your property they would issue a letter to advise this action would be taken. However, they have also advised this would only take place if there was no arrangement in place on a customers account or if there has been no contact from a customer regarding their account. It is our legal right to enforce this, however, I would like to point out they are simply there to try to gain an arrangement for payments to your account and not to enter your property.

 

With regard to your request for documents under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act I see from our records that a Final Response was issued to you on the 21 st July 2008 and this clearly stated the Bank's position. Whilst I am sorry that you remain dissatisfied, we have nothing further to add.

 

As previously advised, you may be able to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. Please note that you have six months from the date of the Final Response letter to refer to the Financial Ombudsman Service for investigation.

 

I enclose a further copy of the Financial Ombudsman Service's "Explanatory Leaflet" for your information.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Customer Relationship Manager

 

Enc: Financial Ombudsman Service -- "Explanatory Leaflet".

 

 

17/10/08. Received the following. They've also been phoning me twice a day and (a new tactic) sending text messages to my mobile phone.

 

CAG0003-1.gif

 

This all seems to be going nowhere, and I'm at a loss as to what to do next. I can't afford to take BC to court to test the enforceability of the agreements so should I:

 

a) Invite BC to take me to court and then counterclaim under s85

b) Phone Credit Solutions and see if they would be amenable to doing a deal for token payments

c) Do nothing and see what happens next

d) Something else?

 

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Edited by uptoneck
Removed MasterCard references and set up a separate thread fror them.

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Hi Uptoneck and welcome to the BC forum. Also, congratulations on the longest-ever first post !! :p

 

Without commenting on the enforceability of the CCA replies you've had (not my stongest point), the best thing you can do is write to BC and reclaim all penalty charges on each a/c.

 

This will put the a/c's "In Dispute" on a more proper basis and the charges will offer you an immediate defence against any court claim against you.

 

If you're missing statements on either a/c, you need to send as SAR with the £10 fee - 1 letter can cover both a/c's.

 

As we're dealing with 2 a/c's here, it's vital that you use this thread for one a/c, and start a new thread for the other. Saves the a/c's and info and advice getting confused. Confirm which thread is for which a/c and I'll change the title of this thread accordingly.

 

Don't call CSL, or any DCA - it's a waste of time. All they want is your money. :)


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Hello uptoneck!

 

Good advice from Slick132, and may I also say that was a very good 1st Post as you have included everything to help set out your position (without giving too much away).

 

I think they'll know who you are if they really try to work it out, but the key is you have not said who you are, so nothing discussed here can be directly linked to you and used against you.

 

I think you have reached about the same position as many others...a form of stalemate, where Barclays are just working their way through their various groups and agents to hit you with a campaign of Harassment to try and break you.

 

I know it won't have escaped your notice that they have not taken Court action, which does suggest they know just how weak their position is.

 

Imagine that you had not found CAG, and were trying to deal with this in splendid isolation! Sadly, that is exactly what many people are doing, and that is exactly why Barclays are following the same pattern with you as they are doing with many others.

 

I think by now you can see how they operate.

 

My suggestion is that you should switch your focus now, and concentrate on your Harassment Claim or Counter-Claim.

 

Harassment

 

Perhaps start a new Folder, and piece together all of the Letters and Calls that you regard as Harassment. If you are not doing so already, start to Log all Calls by Time and Date and Calling CLI (Calling Line Identity). Record any Messages they leave, and see if you can take images of them calling you, i.e. use Camera or Mobile Phone Camera to take Images of their CLI showing on your Telephone. If your phone does not show Date/Time on the Display, get a cheap Clock and park it next to the Phone so it appears in the same shot.

 

When they Call, make sure your Answerphone picks up the Call, or just lift the receiver and slam it down. This is important, as it will then register a Call on their own System. Ringing without being picked up won't Register a Call at their end, but you can still get evidence from Images and your Log of Time/Date. But that evidence is better if it can be directly linked to Call Logs at their end.

 

Try also to Record any Calls you do take, don't ever answer any Security Questions, but always try to obtain the Full Name of the Caller, and see if you can tease out the Full Name of the Manager who authorised the Call.

 

Also, to combat any Doorstep Callers, have a Plan of Action ready, such as keeping a copy of the No Visitors Letter handy ready to hand to them. Perhaps keep a Camera handy, or get yourself familiar with any Camera that you have on your Mobile Phone. Practice how you will deal with this, and do run through the motions with a friend until it becomes automated.

 

Door Bell rings, and you swing into action. Stay polite, but find out who they are. If from Barclays, then say you have a Letter for them, and could they please leave as they are Trespassing. Take an image of them if you can, and then make a note, or take an Image, of their Vehicle's Registration and any Sign-Writing on the Vehicle. If they have Debt Collector written on the Vehicle, get an Image of that because it demonstrates that they are trying to embarrass you in front of neighbours.

 

Unlawful Charges

 

Slick132 is quite correct that one option is to try and get these back. However, I think before embarking on that, see how much they add up to and, if it's something you can live without for now, it may be better to hold that claim back for now. Keep the Unlawful Charges back but have them ready as a Counter-Claim, along with Harassment, i.e. should Barclays (or anyone else) seek to take you to Court.

 

The Unlawful Charges could render any Default Notice invalid if the Total they request is made up of, or significantly affected by, Unlawful Charges.

 

Statute Barred

 

I think the underlying strategy for you now is to weather the Storm until the alleged Debts go past 6 Years. Do not pay a Penny towards any of them, and note when you last made a Payment.

 

However, while the 6-Year Clock is ticking, build up strong Counter-Claims, just in case they do go to Court (i.e. Charges and Harassment).

 

If you send them any further Statutory Requests, such as a s78(1) CCA or S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), make it clear that any Statutory Fees in relation to such Requests are not a Payment towards any alleged Debt. Most bankers and DCAs will apply these Statutory Fees to the alleged Account. Their aim in doing so is to try and re-set the Statute Barred 6-year countdown clock so it starts ticking again from the Date you sent them a Statutory Fee.

 

I hope this helps, but it is just general advice at this stage, to try and help you to re-focus. Turn it into a game, and soon the Harassment will have less and less impact.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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Wow, great advice. Thanks a million. It's nice to know that there are people on this forum who have seen all this before, and can counteract BC's bullying tactics. If it wasn't for CAG, I would be having a lot of sleepless nights, and would probably have gone bankrupt -- which is what the guy at the CAB told me to do. :(

 

Sidebar to anyone reading this who hasn't made a contribution to the CAG libel defence fund. Please contribute as much as you can to help keep this forum active. It performs a VITAL public service IMHO, one that will become increasingly necessary as the economy worsens.

 

Slick132. I will start a new thread for my Mastercard, and keep this one for my Visa card. The unlawful charges angle is an interesting one. I note that BC are charging me the cash advance interest rate on the late payment charges, and continued to charge them even in the time it took to reply to my CCA request.

 

Is there a letter template on the forum I could adapt for this?

 

BRW. I started to keep a log of calls up to the point where my answering machine packed up. After that, I used the fax/voice software that came with my computer to intercept their calls, and would switch the ringer off at the weekends. I told my friends to call me on my mobile as I was getting a lot of "nuisance calls" and the answering machine was on the blink. The calls from Mercers were too many to keep track of after a while, but they did have the habit of calling me at exactly the same time every day. My new phone and answering machine (reconditioned off eBay) does have incoming call display, so I'll get on to BT and have caller display enabled, then I can keep a log on the phone itself. I have my b***** off letter on the shelf by the front door. I shall keep my digital camera handy too. Thanks for the advice. I hope I'm not going to have to keep this up for the next 6 years :eek:.

 

One other thing about phone calls: the last few calls from Mercers have been number withheld. A girl phones up and says something like "This is a message for Mr Uptoneck, please call {her name} on {a Liverpool number} as soon as possible." I figured it had to be Mercers as I don't know anyone in Liverpool. My outgoing number is withheld, so after a few hours I called the number and got a recording saying "Thank you for calling Mercers. All our representatives are busy at the moment...". Underhanded or what? :rolleyes:

 

Quick question: Should I write to CSL saying the accounts are in dispute, or just keep quiet?

 

Any further input and advice would be much appreciated.

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Hi UTN,

 

I've changed the thread title here now, so this is your Visa thread.

 

Can I suggest you have a read through this thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/139191-tonka-99-barclay-card.html.

 

It's a prime example of how BC and the DCA's keep pestering away, regardless of what is said to them.

 

Make a note of the location of any letters that you think may be approriate for your cases, so you can copy, adapt and use them yourself.

 

BRW has a point about holding off reclaiming penalty charges just now. These chgs can be a useful defence re court action and defaults, as said.

 

Re CSL, by all means drop them a line to confirm the a/c is in dispute re the response to your CCA request. But don't bother calling.:)


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I hope I'm not going to have to keep this up for the next 6 years

 

Probably!

 

But they will get less and less interested in you! The best advice is to pester the hell out of them for every scrap of information you are allowed to obtain, because you need to tease out anything of use.

 

Do plan on this being a long drawn out affair, as bankers only go for the throat if they think they can win hands down.

 

If they don't think that, they just switch over to a longer game, where they try to wear you down, and/or pass it around to their best mates in DCA land to let them have a pop at wearing you down.

 

Rule 1 is to take charge of events, don't let them do so. Soon you will get a measure of how they operate, and then it does get easier to handle.

 

CAG is a mine of information that can help, so keep digging!

 

Cheers,

BRW

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There's been a development in my dispute with BC regarding my Mastercard. Please take a look at my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/164955-uptoneck-bc-mastercard.html#post1773510

 

Not sure what to do now.:confused:

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Another update...

 

Received the following from Power2Contact.

 

CAG0001-1.gif

 

Not fair to say I have ignored all CSLs contact requests -- I won't speak to them on the phone, but that's another matter. I have written to them, and sent the letter recorded delivery so I know they got it.

 

Have my b****r off letter ready and my digital camera on standby this time.

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Hi UTN,

 

As with the Mastercard a/c, file this under "No Action Necessary".

 

:)


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Received this very unwelcome missive from Barclaycard today. The b@$tds have completely cleaned me out and taken the entire contents of my current account. I now have NO MONEY AT ALL and cannot pay any of my bills: rent, electric, gas, insurance, other creditors anyone!:mad:

 

barclaycard0804.jpg

 

Apart from change my bank - which is going to be difficult with my poor credit (Nat West turned me down) not that I have any money anyway - what can I do?

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Hello Uptoneck!

 

Sadly, this is a good example to all why it is vital to move bank Accounts when having a bun fight over a Credit Card with the same bank. This is what they can and will do if given half the chance.

 

Right, they have dumped on you big time here. I expect they knew their profits were looking good again, so have decided to take the kid gloves off against Consumers who have otherwise been left on the back burner until Barclays' own situation improved.

 

Now the bank feels it is in a stronger position, I expect we will see a lot more of this, as it gets busy grabbing anything it can. Never forget this is what bank Recessions are all about, grabbing things when people are down and already in financial difficulty. This is how banks acquire real wealth. The number-money profits are just a smoke screen, the real game is much darker, and involves the banks grabbing homes and business assets on a huge scale during the downturn. After they've finished this one, I would expect to see banks owning maybe 60% of all UK property, up from the 40-45% or so it was before this latest engineered banking cycle.

 

Anyway, back to the here and now...

 

Firstly, check the Agreement issue with that Card, and establish if you were in dispute. I can see now you were indeed in dispute, good, that will help with the next bit...

 

I would call FOS, and have a damned good moan. However, before doing so, make a list of all the things you cannot now pay, i.e. that Barclays have ratted up for you. Also, look ahead to see what you will also soon be unable to pay because of the knock on effect of this. Then call FOS and create blue murder mentioning the dispute issues.

 

Then complain to Barclays. They won't listen, but some Customer Services minion may go through the motions, and you may get them to reconsider, unlikely, but give it a shot. Send a letter too, but time is key, so on this occasion, a call is worth the risk just to stress the urgency. Make notes and/or record the call if you can. Make it clear any charges on your Accounts for bills that cannot now be paid will be their problem, not yours. Stress the Barclaycard AC was in dispute and so they should not have touched any money in your other Account(s).

 

Then call your Citizens' Advice Bureau, and have a good moan at them too, adding anything you managed to get, or not get, out of Barclays in the above call/letter. Mention the disputed AC.

 

Then open another bank account. Try the Co-Op, they are pretty good, and you will get at least a very basic Account, but try for the minimum level that you need such as Cheque Book, Debit Card and on-line access. Do that Today, because it will take maybe 4 days to set it up. Then transfer all receipts over to that Account, such as Salary or any other money that flows in.

 

Cancel all Direct Debts on the Barclays Account (to avoid charges), but do not set them up on your new bank Account. From now on, you must keep that new Account directly under your full control. So, do not allow anyone to have a Direct Debit on that Account. That Account will soon be your financial lifeboat. You must keep that in Credit at all times, no matter what it takes to do so (or within any small overdraft if they allow an overdraft). That Account will help you to sail to a better position down the line. You must know, down to the penny, what the balance of that is at all times, use a Spreadsheet or a Home Accounts Package like Quicken/QuickBooks or Microsoft Money etc.

 

Next step is to dump all non-essential expenditure, and I mean all of it. Cancel Sky TV, Magazines, Clubs, anything that you do not need for Family, Home, Heat, Power, Water, Food and Communications.

 

Next step is to list out the key Bills: Kids, Food, Mortgage, Council Tax, Electricity, Water, Gas, Telephone, not in any order. These must be paid at all costs, so start selling off anything that is big and sellable to get buffer money in. Use eBay, and also sell any Gold if you have any, because via the on-line Gold Buyers (who know US inflation is about to go ballistic and with it Gold Prices) you can get Cash for Gold virtually next day, i.e. 18 carat Gold is worth around £13 a gram in just the weight. Silver is worth far less, 19p a gram approx. Obviously, pay this into your new Account not one with Barclays!

 

Finally, forget Barclays, your time with them is now over. They cannot be trusted, and it is not an option to say with them. If you do get the money back, transfer it out same day, go down and draw out Cash if needed.

 

I really do hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited by banker_rhymes_with
Have read the Thread now!

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Many thanks, very welcome advice. I hadn't thought about the co-op, but will check them out on-line today. The only trouble is, I'm going to have to have some direct debits on whatever account I set up as payment plans I have with other creditors (notably Capital1 and AMEX/RMA Regain) require a direct debit, and I don't want to p*** them off again. My car insurance is paid by DD as well. Thankfully that went out the day before Barclays cleaned me out. I can't afford to fill the car with petrol when this tank is empty, so I don't know how I'll be able to get to work towards the end of this month. Sadly, public transport isn't an option here.

 

I've checked through the revised T&Cs for my current account and Barclays, do give themselves the right to raid other accounts; however, these don't come into effect until October, so they're definitely jumping the gun here.:-x

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These bankers can demand what they like, the key is you pay them in a way that is suitable for you, not them.

 

I'd tell them they get a Standing Order, not a Direct Debit. That keeps things under your control, not theirs.

 

I cannot stress too much that the new Account is your lifeline, so you must protect it or else they will indeed leave you with no money for fuel, no job, and no money...more or less in that exact order!

 

If they insist on Direct Debits, then leave them on the Barclays AC, keep it for just that, and just manage that AC from your other new Account, i.e. transfer just enough, just in time.

 

My point is you must take charge of the new Account, and protect it like a Bear would protect a Cub.

 

Otherwise they will trash that Account too, i.e. CapitalOne, Amex/RMA etc won't think twice about hitting the Account with Direct Debit after Direct Debit, no matter how many Charges that adds to ruin your new relationship.

 

I know times are hard, which is why you must now go onto what can only be described as a war footing, and start protecting your own interests to the absolute exclusion of the bankers chasing you for money.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited by banker_rhymes_with
Clarity.

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Barclaycard stole a minimum payment from my Barclays current account. I had a new account the next morning.

 

I think I read somewhere that the co-op bank offer a "parachute account" which has standing order and direct debit facilities, so you should be able to get one no matter how bad your credit is. (this might have been on moneysavingexpert.com 'do you need a parachute account' but not totally sure)

 

Insist on a standing order with Barclays. They gave me sort code and account details for one of my loan accounts. They wanted me to set up a direct debit (!?) but the personal banker took the account details and set up a standing order. They can take it, even if they don't want to.

 

Remember the direct debit guarantee. If as a last resort you get a DD, you can get your bank to take the money back if they take too much.

 

You could try demanding Barclays honour the direct debit guarantee on the grounds that no payment was due as the account is in dispute. They will disagree, but at least you get to annoy them;-) Refusing to honour the direct debit guarantee might also be grounds for a formal complaint.

 

If their alleged 'right' to take money this way doesn't come into effect until October, then they're breaking their own rules. Complain about that, tell them they can't do it before October, but still change banks immediately (don't tell them til your money all goes to your new account)

 

One small point on which I disagree with BRW (never thought that would happen;-)) is that I wouldn't sell gold unless you have no other choice. The global (planned) economic crisis isn't nearly over, IMHO it's barely beginning, and I think it'll get a hell of a lot worse.:mad: There is a strong possibility that the traitors we refer to as a government (see tpuc.org or ukcolumn.org) will try to crash sterling to justify our entry into the euro :-x

Gold and silver are likely to be worth a hell of a lot more in the future.

Edited by shinobi101
spelling

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Hello shinobi101!

 

One small point on which I disagree with BRW (never thought that would happen:wink:) is that I wouldn't sell gold unless you have no other choice. The global (planned) economic crisis isn't nearly over, IMHO it's barely beginning, and I think it'll get a hell of a lot worse.:evil: There is a strong possibility that the traitors we refer to as a government (see tpuc.org or ukcolumn.org) will try to crash sterling to justify our entry into the euro :-x

Gold and silver are likely to be worth a hell of a lot more in the future.

I apologise. I perhaps did not make myself clear. My suggestion to sell Gold was aimed at people who need to pay bills, right now. I agree the price is likely to rise, but for those who are on a knife edge right here, and right now, they may be pleased to learn that Scrap Gold in their bottom drawer is amazingly sellable at the moment. You can literally get the money in under 24 hours from despatch via a 2 hour BACS Transfer next day, or a cheque within a couple of days (avoid the High Street buyers, as they tend to offer poor prices).

 

That near instant cash may save the day for some people.

 

Those that can afford to wait, I agree, wait. But, do watch the markets, because missing the peak price will mean the price falls, and all of the Gold buyers out there at the moment will disappear almost overnight once they realise the price has peaked. They'll stop buying to speculate, and will instead switch to selling to make their profits.

 

Right now, the price of Gold is doing very well (it's just under $1,000 Toy Oz). It could indeed go higher, and there are reports that it may well reach $1,500 a Troy Oz in the not too distant future. That's if US Inflation kicks in as many predict, or if the powers behind the scenes (the Central Banks) do crash Sterling, or another major currency. Then the price of Gold could well hit the above peak, if not higher.

 

My warning is just that once the markets think the peak has been reached, the headline/market price of Gold will slip, but the street price will collapse much faster. That's because at the moment the Buyers are paying almost the Spot Price of Gold, when usually you would only get a percentage of that, say, 80%-95%. At the moment, many are paying 100% of the daily fix. When the market peaks, they will stop Buying at 100% of Spot, and will re-introduce their usual margins, assuming any are even there to Buy once the price starts going down.

 

Also, do watch the Dollar/Sterling Exchange Rate, because the surge in the value of Sterling has recently reversed the latest gains in the price of Gold. So, like all Markets, it's a real gamble, and whilst there always remains the possibility that something will go up, and up, there also remains the other possibility that the peak has been, or may be, reached soon, and then the best chance has slipped away.

 

To think Gordon Broooon sold off a large chunk of our Gold Reserves at around 25% of the current price! Many would say that was somewhat unwise of him. :rolleyes:

 

My family have recently sold what Gold we had, and it paid key bills we could not otherwise pay. There are no regrets selling, because it was otherwise overlooked cash that we did not know we had. Finding it had a value was the best thing since sliced bread! Sure, the price may well go up, but keeping a roof over ones head, right now, is worth turning Gold into cash and missing out on a better price later.

 

Please note I have no links or involvement with anyone selling Gold! I'm just passing on feedback on how we recently managed to find a little extra Cash that we never thought we had.

 

For those who have money to spare, Gold could well be a good investment now. But do read what I have said above, because buying at what could be the peak of a Market is very risky. If the price does go up further, then returns of between 10%-50% are quite possible. But be aware that once the peak is reached, getting out will be harder. By that I mean for the average person, not the Bullion Dealers.

 

Back to reality! It's the here and now I am concerned about. If you are looking down a deep financial black hole this Month, Mortgage to pay, kids to feed, and your income is short this Month, and there is no magic fairy to help, then a rummage around in your collection of trinkets may be productive!

 

Cheers,

BRW

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BRW, looks like we generally agree after all. The situations you describe such as keeping a roof over your head etc are situations where you really do have no choice but to sell gold.

 

My view on gold is something to keep to protect some of your wealth (if you have any - I don't) in the event of a global financial meltdown which I believe is likely to start in less than 5 years, and maybe a soon as a month or two. Nexus magazine have done a few articles on this. Alex Jones has articles on it on prisonplanet.com. There's some good info on davidicke.com as well (don't mention the lizards :lol: )

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I thought I'd better give everyone a quick update.

 

I've now closed my current account at Barclays, and opened two basic accounts with other banks - ones I don't owe money to. I'm going to use one account to handle payments (standing orders and direct debits) to creditors, and the other one for everything else.

 

It seems a bit strange not having this account with Barclays anymore, as I've banked with them since I was a student. I was going to leave the account open with a zero balance just to p*** them off, but decided against it. My company still has an account with them, but not for much longer as my (now former) business partner and I are in the process of winding everything up. Sadly, we can't afford to stay in business any longer.

 

I was going to write a letter to BC about all this, but as they'll almost certainly ignore it like all the others, I figured it wasn't worth wasting a stamp. I am composing a letter to the FOS and OFT, though. Barclays set up a direct debit so they could plunder my account at will. I cancelled it online before they could come back for another bite of the cherry.:p

 

My dad loaned me some cash to cover my rent etc. this month, so at least I'm not going to be homeless over all this, but the money has come from the fund he keeps to pay his tax with so he needs it back quite quickly. I don't quite know how I'm going to do this as my business has now gone bust and I'm doing temping work that pays as much a week as I used to make a day five years ago, but at least I'm fortunate enough to get it in the current climate, and have (so far) avoided having to sign on.

 

Fortunately, the transfer I used to make to Tesco Clubcard every month went through the day before BC plundered my account so I won't starve either, but it looks like it's going to be iron rations for the next couple of months. I hope the Barclays bosses are enjoying their bonuses and expensive lunches. :rolleyes:

 

I agree with shinobi101. I don't think the recession is going to be over anytime soon, despite what the politicians tell us. I'm sure we're in for a double dip recession. Sadly, I don't have any gold, though, other than the crown I have on one of my teeth, and I'm not yanking that out just yet!

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