Hillesden debt - Citibank £3600 - warrant of execution

[DriverG]

Please could someone advise me on the following:

 

In brief I took on a commercial premises in 1998 that cost £1800 per month rent on a 5 year lease. I borrowed some against the house to get it going making our morgage owing £56k 

 

It was all ok at first but in the 3rd year business went right down hill I got behind with my mortgage at home and with the rent at work, we were subsidising on credit cards at home then the downward spiral where I was applying for new cards to transfer balances and juggling things round like that etc I bet you've heard that all before. I was deluded, thinking it would all come right but it did'nt.

 

In the end the landlord who is a decent bloke and owns a property investment company offered me a solution, sign over our house and all it's contents

(he said contents too btw to protect us from anyone trying to take anything off us as he was aware of the other credit card debts, like I said a real decent bloke took me under his wing a bit you might say).

 

to clear the remainder of the lease and he would pay off the money owing on it (£56k) btw the house was valued at just over the 100k then, and he'd charge us rent at 5% of the £56k per year which is £235 a month and thats how it's stayed, his bonus being he'd just slipped a £100k house into his portfolio for £56k. It was a perfect solution to protect the house and it's contents for my wife and 4 kids.

I carried on swapping money around on the cards over the next 2 years paying the minimum where possible but in the end they were all up to the hilt and I just threw in the towel.

 

Not sure if you have heard this before but I went for, and have stuck to the 'head in the sand approach' I have literally ignored everything from that day in 2003 to this, but the day of reckoning has arrived and I need your help please.

 

Capquest have bought 2 of the debts equalling just short of £20k and have now threatened to make me bankrupt, I say bring it on as if I could afford it I'd do it myself so that's gone quiet but will rear it's head again as next year will be the 6th year from judgements with no offers of payment from me.

 

The one thats worrying me is Hillesden have bought the debt off Citibank for £3600 and have have had a warrant of execution issued against me meaning the bailiffs are coming after the 23rd October.

 

This is my question(s) to you,

do I have anything to worry about as nothing here is mine, not the house, the contents and not even a vehicle.

Shortly after the business failure I went to live back with my mum but back here now. I was allowed back for the sake of the kids, they need a dad here and on the understanding that I was the lodger so to speak.

 

I have always done my best for them regardless and have worked as a courier over the last 5 years. The only problem I can see is that my name was never taken off bills etc but that was because it was all so amicable, although saying that she didn't include me on electoral roll as that was to be filled out shortly after I went back to my mums in 2003 and I've never appeared on it again but will add it this year.

I really don't want bailiffs here for their sake.

 

In the circumstances what do you think should I say or do at this point, should we just batten down the hatches and hope they give up or go and tell this to the bailiff.

 

Sorry to ramble on so much but I really could do with some advice.

 

thanks very much and best regards,

 

DriverG

[DriverG]

In brief I took on a commercial premises in 1998 that cost £1800 per month rent on a 5 year lease. I borrowed some against the house to get it going making our morgage owing £56000 It was all ok at first but in the 3rd year business went right down hill I got behind with my mortgage at home and with the rent at work, we were subsidising on credit cards at home then the downward spiral where I was applying for new cards to transfer balances and juggling things round like that etc I bet you've heard that all before.

I was deluded, thinking it would all come right but it did'nt. In the end the landlord who is a decent bloke and owns a property investment company offered me a solution, sign over our house and all it's contents

(he said contents too btw to protect us from anyone trying to take anything off us as he was aware of the other credit card debts, like I said a real decent bloke took me under his wing a bit you might say)

to clear the remainder of the lease and he would pay off the money owing on it (£56k) btw the house was valued at just over the 100k then, and he'd charge us rent at 5% of the £56k per year which is £235 a month and thats how it's stayed, his bonus being he'd just slipped a £100k house into his portfolio for £56k.

It was a perfect solution to protect the house and it's contents for my wife and 4 kids.

I carried on swapping money around on the cards over the next 2 years paying the minimum where possible but in the end they were all up to the hilt and I just threw in the towel.

Not sure if you have heard this before but I went for, and have stuck to the 'head in the sand approach' I have litterally ignored everything from that day in 2003 to this, but the day of reckoning has arrived and I need your help please.

Capquest have bought 2 of the debts equalling just short of £20k and have now threatened to make me bankrupt, I say bring it on as if I could afford it I'd do it myself so thats gone quiet but will rear it's head again as next year will be the 6th year from judgements with no offers of payment from me.

The one thats worrying me is Hillesden have bought the debt off Citibank for £3600 and have have had a warrent of execution issued against me meaning the bailiffs are coming after the 23rd October.

This is my question(s) to you, do I have anything to worry about as nothing here is mine, not the house, the contents and not even a vehicle.

Shortly after the business failure I went to live back with my mum but back here now. I was allowed back for the sake of the kids, they need a dad here and on the understanding that I was the lodger so to speak. I have always done my best for them regardless and have worked as a courier over the last 5 years. The only problem I can see is that my name was never taken off bills etc but that was because it was all so amicable, although saying that she did'nt include me on electrol roll as that was to be filled out shortly after I went back to my mums in 2003 and I've never appeared on it again but will add it this year.

I really don't want bailiffs here for their sake.

In the circumstances what do you think should I say or do at this point, should we just batten down the hatches and hope they give up or go and tell this to the bailiff.

Sorry to ramble on so much but I really could do with some advice.

 

thanks very much and best regards,

 

DriverG

[spamheed]

Please could someone advise me on the following:

 

This is my question(s) to you, do I have anything to worry about as nothing here is mine, not the house, the contents and not even a vehicle.

If you hear from the bailiffs, or anyone else seeking to seize possessions, your "landlord" would need to obtain a Statutory Declaration identifying all of the properties and stating that the property itself and all of the property therein is theirs and you have no rights to it, as such a bailiff would not be able to seize anything listed on the Stat Dec (this can be obtained for a fiver from a solicitor)

 

Shortly after the business failure I went to live back with my mum but back here now. When you say "here now" are you referring to the marital home, or your parents home? I was allowed back for the sake of the kids, they need a dad here and on the understanding that I was the lodger so to speak. I have always done my best for them regardless and have worked as a courier over the last 5 years. The only problem I can see is that my name was never taken off bills etc but that was because it was all so amicable, although saying that she did'nt include me on electrol roll as that was to be filled out shortly after I went back to my mums in 2003 and I've never appeared on it again but will add it this year.

I really don't want bailiffs here for their sake.

 

In the circumstances what do you think should I say or do at this point, should we just batten down the hatches and hope they give up or go and tell this to the bailiff. Your partner or ex partner needs to ensure that everything is in their name and seek advice from a solicitor regarding a Stat Dec as confirmation of their ownership and a possible notice of disassociation to the CRAs

 

Sorry to ramble on so much but I really could do with some advice.

 

thanks very much and best regards,

 

DriverG

 

As long as the house is in your parents/partners name, a Stat Dec should be sufficient to keep the bailiffs from seizing anything, although the standard rules apply, don't let them in, keep all windows and doors locked etc If you can convince the bailiffs that you have nothing to seize then they will go away, if however they get whiff of even the smallest assets then they will continue to attempt enforcement.

 

Hope this helps

 

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Edited October 18, 2008 by spamheed
forgot a bit

[DriverG]

Thanks ever so much for your advice on this. When I said 'here now' I meant living back in original marital home.

The following is bound to upset some people but I'm going to ask anyway:

 

Next year these three debts will be 6 years old with no communication from me or offer of payment, does this mean they really do go away?

 

I'm sorry if I sound a bit self centred with that one

[Bongo Dancer]

Yes, its Section 2 of the Limitation Act 1980. It doesn't apply to liability orders because there is no end date on them.

[rory32]

Bailiffs can only take your possessions, not someone elses. Even then they are very limited in what they can take. Do you have any paperwork showing that you do not own any of the furnishings in the house?

[chris600uk]

Why? If you don't look out for yourself, who will?

 

Has there been any correspondence from these 3 creditors at your current address?

 

I would write to the bailiff informing them that you do not have any goods that they can levy upon or seize.

 

Then prepare statutory declarations so that you can challenge any levy they make if by some chance they did get in.

 

You can't avoid them coming - if they know where you are - and initially they will assume that anything in the house is yours and that they can levy upon it.

 

you won't be letting them in so that shouldn't matter, but just in case, go round the house and check that there are no doors or windows left open, and make sure all are locked.

[DriverG]

Hi, not in black and white but could be proved I suppose as her parents have honestly bought everything that has needed replacement over the past 5 years and I can assure you as far as they are concerned because of the mess I got us into they have not intended any of it for me

[DriverG]

Thanks everyone for your comments, what is a liability order btw?

[Bongo Dancer]

A document issued by a magistrate on application by a council pursuant to Section 33 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and authorising enforcement action to be taken for recovering an unpaid debt. Ditto Section 33 of the Child Support Act 1991.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Bongo Dancer
typo

[chris600uk]

It's a magistrates order saying that you owe the council whatever you owed them plus the court fee.

 

It's a bit of a con really, because if you have a council tax bill the order will be made automatically - it's there to permit the council to use various means to try and collect the tax - one of them being bailiffs.

[letsmakeamark]

IF it is a council tax bailiff he cant do alot. For the police etc to get involved the council must summons you to another hearing and you must explain to the magis why you cant pay. If after the maggis accept what you are offering and then refuse to pay you are going to have big problems.

[Bongo Dancer]

Thats not how liability orders are processed. When legislation was drawn up, judges complained they were being used as rubberstamps so it was reworked to use magistrates to issue liability orders. They cost less money and stipendiaries cost nothing. Police only execute a warrant for arrest to being someone before the court for a committal proceeding. They do get a fair hearing and are given opportunity why they havnt paid, it's often something simple such forgetting to claim a benefit or didnt live at the charge address.

[DriverG]

I'm so glad you lot know what your are talking about.

 

I don't owe any fines, child support, council tax or anything like that, the 3 debts I'm being chased for are 5 years old, originally to 3 credit card companies 2 of which have been acquired by Capquest and the other by Hillesden.

 

To be honest I really wish Capquest would carry out there threat of making me bankrupt and I could put all this behind me, I personally don't have and never have had enough cash to go down and declare myself so when there letter arrived saying thats what they were going to do it was quite a relief, but for some reason they went quiet for 2 months then sent me a letter threatening that if I did'nt reply soon they'd refer it to their 'Collection Administration Department' which amazed me really, I mean who sent threat of bankruptcy

 

What do you guys make of Capquest by the way? They are not worrying me but there correspondence seems to go in circles and gets them nowhere.

 

As long as I get past this bailiff problem for now I'll be happy.

 

Thanks folks.

[Bongo Dancer]

I would be surprised if a DCA petitions bankruptcy, its expensive and creditors form a line and a DCA falls low in priority. You are only dealing with county court bailiffs or HCEO's. Find out if your case had been transferred up (min £600) and fortunately bailiffs in this case have no power of entry without permission to a property for the purposes of enforcement. They dont have the same power of entry as council tax and court fines. Let the debt pass 6 years and it becomes a nullity under Section 2 of the Limitation Act 1980. You might be best seek advice in the debt forums.

[42man]

DCA's WILL petition for bankruptcy and have done

[Bongo Dancer]

Then he can attend the proceeding and ask the judge the petition be struck out because there is no contract between the debtor and the DCA. The debtor only has contractual obligation to pay the original creditor who needs to be named as the petitioner. Unless the DCA holds a legal charge for the debt the court has no obligation to bankrupt a debtor for consumer debt for which there is no contract between himself and a debtor.

[Saffronflowers]

BD - just a kindly word of advice I think that 42man knows more than all of us ever want to know about creditors petitioning for bankruptcy

 

SFx

[DriverG]

I hope you are right 42man as this would put a lid on the whole sorry episode for me, I'm not proud of the situation nor would I be proud of bankruptcy but at least it would be them paying the £475 or so that I can't afford to declare myself.

[Saffronflowers]

DG - if bankcruptcy is an option - why not pop on the forum here or on mse. It is a lot of money but it is possible to "save" it up in a short time. Bankcrupty is not something to take lightly but it can change lives.

 

SFx

[DriverG]

Hi SFx, it is quite late in the day for me to consider paying for it anyway now, if these 3 debts become statute barred after mid 2009 it's probably worth riding out the storm don't you think? If Capquest do it then so be it, but thanks for the input.

[Saffronflowers]

The problem with staute barred is that I am pretty sure that it stays on your credit file - but would have to check that.

 

I dont know how tenacious Capquest are - check the DCA forum or 42M may know, what every you decide take care and hope it works out.

 

SFx

[saintly_1]

The problem I see is that

The one thats worrying me is Hillesden have bought the debt off Citibank for £3600 and have have had a warrent of execution issued against me meaning the bailiffs are coming after the 23rd October.

this mean that they have got a CCJ if thats the case then this debt will not become statute barred

[42man]

Thanks SF....Capquest are good at sending out Stat demands but will hardly ever follow them through to the BR petition stage, they use them as a scare tactic, however the consumer is fighting back and winning costs in court as judges do not generally like the Insolvency service used as a debt collection tool for disputed debts....Capquest will hardly ever turn up at court to defend a stat demand set aside hearing....and will simper behind a letter saying we withdraw....I think we have had about 7 wins in the last month or so, some with costs and some without - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/

 

My own feeling is that bankruptcy should NOT be forced an anyone...however if it really is the only way then....you could write to them asking them to make you bankrupt....there is a letter somewhere that I have seen (not for a while though) that you can write to a creditor asking them to make you bankrupt or writing the debt off.....I'll try and find it...

[chris600uk]

DriverG said:

Hillesden have bought the debt off Citibank for £3600 and have have had a warrent of execution issued against me

 

Driver, how did you find this out?

 

The reason I say this is because if I was in your place I'd make a reasonable offer of payment to the court - say £1 a month, depending on your financial situation. (I have actually done this, although I didn't wait for the ccj, I was at court to negotiate with the judge)

 

Once the court have accepted that, Hillesden are screwed, and after six years so long as you keep paying, the debt will quietly drop off the credit file. It'll be a long time before they get all their money back, and it'd serve 'em right! For being such ars* *oles

 

That is of course if you decide not to take one of the other suggested actions.