Speeding....... Notice of Intended Prosection - Help for my friend

[davey_weir]

A friend of mine who has helped me out in the past has told me he was recently "caught" doing 40mph on a 30mph road. However, he tells me that he saw no camera. I have driven down this road since a few times and there definately is no camera. The letter received from the Police says that this will be supported with photographic evidence.

 

My friend told me and I told him I would ask on this website which I knew which had helped me recently and was superb.

 

Bascially, he wants to know;

1) If there was no camera on the road should he challenge this

2) The Notice of Intended Prosecution says he has 28 days to respond but not to send payment or licence. He has lost the paper part of his licence and wants to know how long it takes when replying to this that they request the licence so that he can obtain a replacement when he gets paid.

 

Your help is, as always, much appreciated.

 

Cheers

[pin1onu]

A friend of mine who has helped me out in the past has told me he was recently "caught" doing 40mph on a 30mph road. However, he tells me that he saw no camera. I have driven down this road since a few times and there definately is no camera. The letter received from the Police says that this will be supported with photographic evidence.

 

My friend told me and I told him I would ask on this website which I knew which had helped me recently and was superb.

 

Bascially, he wants to know;

1) If there was no camera on the road should he challenge this

2) The Notice of Intended Prosecution says he has 28 days to respond but not to send payment or licence. He has lost the paper part of his licence and wants to know how long it takes when replying to this that they request the licence so that he can obtain a replacement when he gets paid.

 

Your help is, as always, much appreciated.

 

Cheers

Sounds like he might have been zapped by a mobile scamera. He may able to obtain pictures.

 

Alternately he might have been clocked by a car. Most traffic cops have cameras in them. Mind you if this is the case I would wonder why they didn't stop your friend at the time.

[Guest Ting]

hi Davey. how is the other issue going?

 

Again no offence to this forum but there is far more expertise on speeding on the 'PePiPoo' forum.

This forum seems to have a very high number of viewers but a bit thin on the ground for replies.

 

PePiPoo has far less viewers but more frequent replies and the speeding section is very busy.

 

sorry to evryone here but when i helped this guy before he was quick to respond to advice. What 'Pin' has said is the only helpful thing so far. i just don't think it hurts to point him in a direction to where he will get a lot of quick input. (they got me off my one and only speeding ticket! Yay).

-

[davey_weir]

hi Davey. how is the other issue going?

 

Again no offence to this forum but there is far more expertise on speeding on the 'PePiPoo' forum.

This forum seems to have a very high number of viewers but a bit thin on the ground for replies.

 

PePiPoo has far less viewers but more frequent replies and the speeding section is very busy.

 

sorry to evryone here but when i helped this guy before he was quick to respond to advice. What 'Pin' has said is the only helpful thing so far. i just don't think it hurts to point him in a direction to where he will get a lot of quick input. (they got me off my one and only speeding ticket! Yay).

-

 

hiya Pal, sorry for the lateness of the reply but I have been away on hols and then came back and had loads of work to catch up on!

 

I went to the County Court here and the Magestrate signed my Stat Dec. I spoke to the bank to request more detailed proof. They have told me they cannot give me more detail than they already have, so now its a sort of suck it and see situation. Its been well over the 19 business days, but I dont know what to do or where to go from here. Ive heard nothing from Newham nor the bailiffs. What do you suggest?

[crem]

He has lost the paper part of his licence and wants to know how long it takes when replying to this that they request the licence so that he can obtain a replacement when he gets paid.

 

I am sure if soemone has lost their licence (which can't be unique), the court will still add the points. In doing so a new license will need to be provided. If thatis the case he may be able to avoid paying for a replacement license (at least £17.50 I believe) and get a "free" new license via the court.

 

Small silver lining if true I know, but every little helps if he gets a fine too.

[patdavies]

The situation is that your friend must respond to the NIP/S.172 request within 28 days of it being delivered. This is totally separate from any speeding offence.

 

If he admits to being the driver, they will likely send a COFP (Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty) valid for 28 days - they can take no further action for the offence whilst the COPF is extant. If he accepts this, he will need to pay is £60 and surrender both parts of his licence for points. If he fails to do this, the COPF is voided and he will be summonsed to Court.

 

As he obviously has a photocard licence, he can request (and pay for) a duplicate on-line - it takes about a week to get the licence by this method.

[patdavies]

I am sure if soemone has lost their licence (which can't be unique), the court will still add the points. In doing so a new license will need to be provided. If thatis the case he may be able to avoid paying for a replacement license (at least £17.50 I believe) and get a "free" new license via the court.

 

Small silver lining if true I know, but every little helps if he gets a fine too.

 

No. He is required to surrender both parts of his licence to the Court. If he fails or is unable to do so, a separate offence is created and his licence may be revoked until it is surrendered.

[crem]

No. He is required to surrender both parts of his licence to the Court. If he fails or is unable to do so, a separate offence is created and his licence may be revoked until it is surrendered.

 

Oh well, so much for trying to look on the bright side.

[davey_weir]

Thanks for your replies. The problem is, he already has 9 points and if he loses his licence he basically loses his life because of his job etc.

[pin1onu]

Thanks for your replies. The problem is, he already has 9 points and if he loses his licence he basically loses his life because of his job etc.

The court might take pity on him because of his job.

 

It might be worth your friend getting a brief and making an appearance in court.

 

A colleague of mine was on 9 points and got caught talking on his mobile and speeding (92Mph on the motorway but in the days before talking on a mobile was a specific offence).

 

He went to court and got 2 points plus a large fine in lieu of the extra point thanks to his brief putting the case to the court that he had a wife and child to support etc.

 

BTW he was a reformed character after that and was very conscious of driving below the limit (at least until he lost some of the points:-D).

[Guest Ting]

I agree with Pin. Much the same advice as the last post on Pep.

 

Keep responding to their questions there and IME they will go into more specific detail about what to do. They have so many cases flying through that you have to keep yourself prominent. You're already drifting towards the bottom of the page, LOL.

[bartymuv]

if the current 9 points were not related to speeding offences, then i believe that an option to pay £95 and attend a speed awareness course without incurring the 3 penalty points would be offered.

 

however, somehow i dont think this is going to be the case for this offender, unfortunately.

 

good luck,

 

bartymuv.

[MrShed]

Bear in mind that job requirements to drive are not always a "guaranteed" way to plead mitigation when there is the threat of a ban - it is argued that the driver knew the possible consequences of his actions, including a potential ban and losing of job, when performing the actions.

[patdavies]

if the current 9 points were not related to speeding offences, then i believe that an option to pay £95 and attend a speed awareness course without incurring the 3 penalty points would be offered.

 

Doesn't matter what he other points are for. What matters is that the offender has not attended a course within the last three years

 

however, somehow i dont think this is going to be the case for this offender, unfortunately.

 

Neither do I as the guidelines for offering a course for an offence in a 30 mph limit is 35 - 39 mph; and the OP's friend is above this band.

 

(at least those are the figures quoted by TVP on their NIPs)

[bartymuv]

ahh!

 

thanks for that info pat.

 

i was very lucky then when i got caught (39mph) .

 

cheers,

 

bartymuv.

[pin1onu]

Well he should have thought about that before breaking the law. Just because there is no visible camera doesn't meant it's all of a sudden legal to go at whatever speed you want. The fact that he's on 9 pts already and yet he still did this stupid and potentially dangerous act shows his disregard and lack of respect for other roadusers, and he deserves punishment, irrespective of how that affects his personal circumstances. It will be for the safety of all others on the road that he is punished.

 

I think it's disgraceful that people are treated with leniency in driving offences just because they rely on driving for their job. That's basically giving these people a licence to breach the rules of the road and drive how they want. This loophole needs to be closed.

Why are you opening a thread that has been dormant since October 2008?

[crem]

Why are you opening a thread that has been dormant since October 2008?

 

so he can have a rant over something that died a year ago.

 

CAG as far as I know, is here to help each other without moralising. If a CAGger doesn't approve of what someone may be seeking help and/or impartial advise over, then they don't have to post in that particular thread.

 

There is no need to launch into an attack on someone when they simply want factual advise regarding a particular situation.

Edited December 10, 2009 by crem

[davey_weir]

Well he should have thought about that before breaking the law. Just because there is no visible camera doesn't meant it's all of a sudden legal to go at whatever speed you want. The fact that he's on 9 pts already and yet he still did this stupid and potentially dangerous act shows his disregard and lack of respect for other roadusers, and he deserves punishment, irrespective of how that affects his personal circumstances. It will be for the safety of all others on the road that he is punished.

 

I think it's disgraceful that people are treated with leniency in driving offences just because they rely on driving for their job. That's basically giving these people a licence to breach the rules of the road and drive how they want. This loophole needs to be closed.

 

Do you want me to hire you a cherry picker to help you down of your extremely high horse, you bore.

 

I think its disgraceful that the Police have introduced performance criteria indicators, which means they must issue a certain amount of tickets, producers, conduct spot checks etc each month or else they could face disciplinary action (fact - a colleague of mine is engaged to a police officer). I also think that its disgraceful that because of this I was issued with a FPN for resting my head on my arm and scratching my ear and not, as it says on the FPN, "using a mobile phone whilst driving". £60 and 3 points, which could result in a ban. Fighting it all of the way.

 

Close the topic.

[Tom87]

If a CAGger doesn't approve of what someone may be seeking help and/or impartial advise over, then they don't have to post in that particular thread.

 

So I suppose if someone had committed a murder or a rape and was coming on here remorselessly admitting to the offence and asking how to get off on technicalities, everyone would flock to their assistance too.

 

Speeding is no different in that it is illegal and shows complete and utter disregard for human life.

 

I find that mobile phone/scratching your ear story very hard to believe as the police would not have prosecuted you unless you were actually doing it; and if you were falsely accused it would be easy enough to prove you weren't on your phone!

 

If there are no crimes being committed, no the police aren't going to go and criminalise innocent people just to meet targets. Under the constitutionally entrenched doctrine of the rule of law, you CANNOT be charged with doing something if there is no law against it. So the theory that the police must meet targets even if there are no actual offences taking place is rubbish. If there is no crime, there will be no prosecutions.

 

I do not have any expertise in parking/traffic offences so I don't usually frequent this area, but it is absolutely disgraceful when people who have been undeniably speeding attempt to get off the offence they know they have committed. You've done the crime, now do the time.

 

The CAG should be helping people who have been mistreated in some way by a business/organisation/police etc. It should NOT be helping criminals to get off punishments for the abhorrent offences they have committed. For this reason I completely object to anyone who comes on here after blatantly speeding and trying to get away with it.

 

The end.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Tom87

[lamma]

so all illegal acts are equivalent to murder. ever dropped a piece of litter in your life ?

[pin1onu]

The CAG should be helping people who have been mistreated in some way by a business/organisation/police etc. It should NOT be helping criminals to get off punishments for the abhorrent offences they have committed. For this reason I completely object to anyone who comes on here after blatantly speeding and trying to get away with it.

 

The end.

 

Remember until actually convicted these people are innocent of a crime. In a number of cases people have been caught bang to rights and have been advised to plead guilty by members of this forum. This was the case in this thread - you seem to conveniently overlook that fact. Some people accused of these crimes are actually innocent although they may appear guilty. The cops frequently don't get it right. Are you saying they aren't entitled to advice?

 

I would go as far as to suggest that your post is a highjack of a dormant thread and inflamatory to the regular poster on this thread to say the least. You could at least of the decency to start your own thread (cross-referencing this one if needed).

[crem]

So I suppose if someone had committed a murder or a rape and was coming on here remorselessly admitting to the offence and asking how to get off on technicalities, everyone would flock to their assistance too.

 

Speeding is no different in that it is illegal and shows complete and utter disregard for human life.

 

Wow! so you think using a mobile in a car is the same as murder! I hope you're not a judge or magistrate passing the same sentence for both offences.

 

I find that mobile phone/scratching your ear story very hard to believe as the police would not have prosecuted you unless you were actually doing it;

really?

 

and if you were falsely accused it would be easy enough to prove you weren't on your phone!

yes and as ever, it is becoming more and more common in the country that we have to PROVE our innocence, when the law is supposed to say it is for the authorities to prove you are guilty.

If there are no crimes being committed, no the police aren't going to go and criminalise innocent people just to meet targets.

 

Under the constitutionally entrenched doctrine of the rule of law, you CANNOT be charged with doing something if there is no law against it.

of course you can get charged with whatever the police choose to charge you with. Whether they get a conviction is another matter altogether.

So the theory that the police must meet targets even if there are no actual offences taking place is rubbish. If there is no crime, there will be no prosecutions.

 

I do not have any expertise in parking/traffic offences so I don't usually frequent this area, but it is absolutely disgraceful when people who have been undeniably speeding attempt to get off the offence they know they have committed. You've done the crime, now do the time.

 

The CAG should be helping people who have been mistreated in some way by a business/organisation/police etc. It should NOT be helping criminals to get off punishments for the abhorrent offences

"abhorent offences" wow, your language gets stronger and stronger

 

they have committed. For this reason I completely object to anyone who comes on here after blatantly speeding and trying to get away with it.

with respect then, there seems little point in you spending much time on CAG.

 

The end.

..

[Tom87]

so all illegal acts are equivalent to murder. ever dropped a piece of litter in your life ?

 

I've never dropped a piece of litter, no.

 

Not all illegal acts are equivalent to murder. But the ones that can kill are up there.

[My Real Name]

Speeding is a crime as defined by legislation and case law. Prosecution of speeding is dealt with in the same manner. If the specific rules and regulations are not followed by those enforcing them, then no crime exists. Therefore the individual is not a criminal, therefore your trite and witless argument is turned on its head.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that you attempt to draw moral equivalence between speeding, a technical offence, and murder or rape, which are moral crimes.

 

You show complete and utter disregard for reason, logic, ethics, morality and the rule of law.

[lamma]

so anything that can kill is the same as murder even when no death ensues. thats plainly wrong thinking. every had to brake hard or do an emergency stop ? ever had an accident in your car ?