Wages paid into wrong account - not as simple as it sounds

[mymoneypls]

Hi everyone,

 

This is my first post into what looks like a really helpful forum, it being my first post and I am asking for advice, I will try and repay the favour by helping someone with something that I have knowledge of. Perhaps in the I.T section!

 

Anyway, here is what happened to me recently. Anyone who can offer their opinion as to what they think should happen, would be really appreciated.

 

I work for a company, and get paid monthly via BACS. At this particular time, I was between bank accounts having been through a charges fiasco (got my money back though thanks) and I needed to have my wages paid into my Mum's account for just one month.

 

My Mum gave me the account number and sort code of her savings account, which is held with Abbey National, of which she read straight out of her internet banking facility. No problem, you would have thought...

 

Payday comes, the money (£2200) is nowhere to be seen. We wait 3 days to be safe and start chasing with Abbey and my company. Abbey ask what account number and sort code we gave to my company, we advise the one that is listed in our internet banking.. Here comes the problem.

 

Abbey advised us that this sort code and account number is not valid to use for bacs payments. Instead, we were supposed to give a pooling account number and reference number to receive bacs payments into this account, and the account details we gave, are that of another Abbey National customer!!

 

Abbey then went on to tell us that because the money is in someone elses account, they would not discuss it with us! After numerous calls to their CS dept and a visit to the branch, they advised my company need to apply to Abbey to get the money repaid.

 

My company have done this and the person who received the money, says they spent the money and could only afford to pay back £50 a week!

 

We have asked for their final response and are taking the matter to the financial ombudsman. What I really want is peoples opinions as to what they think the final outcome will be, i.e do you think I will get my money back?

 

Thanks for listening

[skbuncks]

Hi Mymoneypls and welcome to CAG, I personnaly cant help but am sure someone who can will be along soon

 

 

good luck

 

skb

 

ETA: just to clarify cos im a little bit confused, you say you gave your employer your mothers account number and sort code. Abbey then say these details could not be used for BACS payments and the money ended up in someone elses account who has the same account number and sort code?? This just doesnt make sense.

so questions

 

1) were the account details your employer paid the money too the same as the ones that you gave them?

2) are the sort code and account number you gave to your employer actually those of your mother?

3) if the details given were not valis for BACS payments then how on earth was the payment made in the first place?

 

If the answer to both of the above is yes then its the fault of abbey.

If the answer to 1) is yes and 2) no then it could take some time to get the money back, with cout action if necesary

If the answer to 1) is no and 2) is yes then the fault is with your employer

If both answers are no then you better start looking for a paddle

Edited October 17, 2008 by skbuncks

[MrShed]

I think question 3 is the pertinent one, and it sounds to me as if Abbey are full of ****.

[mymoneypls]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for your responses and sorry for not being more clear in the first place.

 

1) were the account details your employer paid the money too the same as the ones that you gave them?

 

Yes.

 

2) are the sort code and account number you gave to your employer actually those of your mother?

 

They are the account number and sort code that are shown in my Mum's internet banking, but Abbey say that because it is a saving account, those details are not valid for BACS payments and if we wanted to receive a BACS payment, then we were supposed to use a holding account number and sort code, with a reference number for my Mum's account.

 

3) if the details given were not valis for BACS payments then how on earth was the payment made in the first place?

 

The payment was made, but Abbey say that the details given in internet banking are not correct for BACS payments. i.e, they are someone else's current account details. Hence the money going into some other persons account.

 

So I think, Abbey are at fault for giving misleading information inside their internet banking. Perhaps my Mum should have phoned them and asked them about BACS into savings accounts to make sure it was safe, but I think she was definitely misled.

 

My employer have been on to Abbey to retrieve the missing money, but all Abbey did was forward my employer a letter from the person who received the money, saying roughly the following:

 

"Hi, Sorry for spending the money but we thought we had won it in a competition so we spent it. We dont earn much so we will pay you back £50 a month."

 

We are raising the issue with the ombudsman, but wanted to know if anyone had any advice and also what you guys think the likely outcome will be. I have now been without the money for a few months, because Abbey are so slow to respond to letters! and have had to borrow £1500 to get by, of which I am paying a huge amount of interest.

 

Thanks again. A.

[tinkerbell20]

Are they paying the money back?

[MrShed]

 

So I think, Abbey are at fault for giving misleading information inside their internet banking. Perhaps my Mum should have phoned them and asked them about BACS into savings accounts to make sure it was safe, but I think she was definitely misled.

 

I agree.

 

Why should she have to ring them to ask? It is perfectly reasonable to assume that the account number and sort code listed were the ones to use.

 

However, the actions of the receiving party have been wholly inappropriate. I would be inclined to pursue that also - they are, IMO, potentially guilty of theft.

[aj84]

I was about to say that another thread earlier on in here was about someone putting in £1000 into a bank when there was only £900... but the bank didn't check.

Now the OP was asking if they should report it or leave it and the general answer was...report it as if he/she did not... it would be a case of theft.

 

Now my thoughts are...the person who has used this money up has surely STOLE the money

It was not this person's money to spend regardless of how they got it.

 

But who is liable I have no idea

My guess...Abbey for wrong information!

[davethorp]

Personally I think Abbey are liable for duplicating account numbers. Some savings accounts do require a BACS payment to be made into a holding account with the savings account number as a reference however for them to issue someone else the exact same account number on a current account is frankly idiotic.

 

Spending money that wasn't supposed to be paid into your account is technically theft (and an issue very close to this site at the moment). However from my point of view (which isn't a legal one mind) Abbey are very much to blame if their systems allow multiple accounts with the same and/or similar details. Also BACS payments are supposed to check against the name the account is in I believe

[peterlucas]

The spending of the money is debatably theft, the key issue being if they really believed they won it in a competition. If they entered a competition with a prize of a similar amount for instance, this may be the case. Either way, they are liable to repay the money and Abbey could be liable in negligence if the receiver can't pay: for duplicating account numbers as stated above or for misleading information that led to them breaching their duty of care. It is likely that the mother would have to be the claimant in any action since it would be her the duty of care was owed to (re:Abbey at least). Also, on a non law related point, Abbey are useless, they lost my money before too. Got it back in the end but it took long enough. And then I asked for the rest of it and closed the account.

[mymoneypls]

Hi Everyone, Thanks so much for your responses, its really appreciated.

 

Yes I agree with all said, and we're just gathering our case together with the FO. peterlucas, yes I agree about Abbey being useless, their attitude has been absolutely hapless and as soon as this sorry tale is dealt with my Mum is going to change.

 

I'll post here with the what happens, be it may some time next year!

[Gazza112]

Hi mymoneypls

 

Abbey, thats par for the course for them can't believe they done that to you, well i can as they done a simular thing to my dad's account.

My dad had an account for his pension, and i made it a joint account.

Short story is my dad lost his card, i wen't to the bank to cancil the card.

But what they did was remove his name from the account.

It took me 9 months before they put his name back onto the account.

I would complain and get some compansation from Abbey, they gave my dad £100 but if i knew what i know now i would of took it further.

 

Hope you get it all sorted with Abbey.

 

Gaz

[tinkerbell20]

Are they paying the money back?

[midge61]

Hi

I would say that the person who received the money is giving a very lame excuse about the competition.

 

If this was true then they would be able to name the company responsible for the competition as to receive the winnings straight into their account they would of had to give out their account details

[KJD]

To add weight to your argument, we use BACS to pay our wages and have several employees who have Abbey accounts. Before realising about the 'pool' account I paid wages to a lad who had given me the numbers off his card, and they were automatically returned by Abbey several days after they were supposed to have landed in his account, ie they tried to allocate them, couldn't, so sent them back. When you send a BACS payment, they ask for the sort code, account number and NAME ofof the account holder. Are they then saying the person they paid the money to had the same name as your mother?

 

Good grief, in this day and age you would think security wuld be tightened, not let slip like this. I've read in threads on the Employment part of here where people have been overpaid wages that there are grounds to repay them in stages.

 

FWIW I'd be going after Abbey National. See if you can get hold of the email and postal address for the CEO and write to him demanding action (plus compensation )

[mcjohnson]

Hi,

 

Sorry to hear about your plight; it really is distressing when your salary gets messed up like this.

 

IMO Abbey aren't at fault at all. I suspect the T&C for your mothers savings account state that BACS transfers can't be made directly into the account, so I don't see how they have 'misled' you - as you haven't sought their advice at any point to enable them to mislead you.

 

I doubt very much that the people who have spent your money have entered, and been notified they won, a competition which coincided with them receiving your £2200. However, if they did then they would have received the competition winnings as well, i.e. had double the money.

 

Either way, I think you have very good reason to take them to court to recover your money; I wouldn't believe them for a second that they either entered or won a competition, and would make them prove it in the County court. If they did then great, because then they've admitted that they knew the money wasn't the competition winnings (as they would have received these additionally), and if they didn't (enter or win a competition) then great, because they're admitting they knew the money wasn't competition winnings)... Damned if they do, damned if they don't. It would also help you formalise the repayment arrangement, and may increase the repayments you receive if they can afford it.

[mymoneypls]

Hi Everyone,

 

I have an update on my situation here.

 

We are still filing a complaint against Abbey for what we think is bad practise. But in the meantime, the people who received the money have written to my employer through the bank, asking if we accept the £50 per week.

 

Now I think that these people have probably looked into their position and are a bit worried that they will be prosecuted for theft.

 

Should I respond to this saying that we do not accept the offer of £50 a month and they should pay back the amount in full? Or should I ignore their letter and keep pushing the matter through the Ombudsman?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Lula]

I think that you need to get in touch with someone high up in Abbey and kick off merry hell it is inconceivable that 2 accounts, whether they be savings and current or not, should have the same account number, I would be persuing Abbey, it is their problem, have you tried Money Mail? Watchdog?

[mymoneypls]

I have pursued Abbey as high as I could go, they have issued their final response letter and we are now pursuing them through the Financial Ombudsman...

 

Its just in the meantime, I was thinking of replying to the person who received the money and demand the whole amount back in hope that the threat of a legal case would scare them into just giving it back?

 

Abbey are absolutely useless.. But I do just want my money back

[shywazz]

Wages paid into wrong account ? why doesnt ur employer pay you again and there chase the bacs payment through the bank, the company would have more chance of taking the bank on for refund than you would, if it was i that was waiting for this wages payment, i would be asking my employer for for it, as the money is due from them after all. i do'nt see how you writing to the person whom got ur money would help, and how did you find out the persons address and name ? i would have though thought this information was confidental ?

The bank should be chasing the person whom got the money not you, myself would seek my company to chase this, as infact the money was theres, it isnt urs untill its received. good luck with ur quest, and i hope u get ur money sooner rather than later...but i really do think the matter is with ur employer and the bank....

[flyingdoc]

Personally I would forget the financial ombudsman as your first line (keep the complaint going but dont rely on it for a quick response)

 

I would write to abbey telling them that unless they return the money to you, or place it in your mothers account you will take them to court, as in your opinion you believe that, having given the sort code and account number of the account you acted appropriately, and if their systems were so lax as to allow the money to be paid into another persons account then they are at fault.

 

Send the letter registered and if they do not respond - issue. (it will cost but you can add it to the bill)

 

It is upto the bank to get the money back off the person who they wrongly gave it to - not you.

 

Even if the T&C of the account your mother has says it does not accept bacs, they should have checked the name as well as the account number and the bacs should have been refused.

 

good luck

[mymoneypls]

Flyingdoc, thanks for your response, this is really helpful.

 

We will keep taking Abbey to court as our first line of action and keep the Ombudsman enquiry going as well.

 

The fact that you say if the name is wrong the payment should have been refused is comforting, since this is definitely 100% fault of the bank.

 

Thanks to everyone again for your help.

[mymoneypls]

double post ignore!!!

Edited November 25, 2008 by mymoneypls