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Ruthbridge again, please help...


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Hi, haven’t really been on here since Dec 07 when I received a letter from Cabot regarding an apparent debt which I’m sure was paid off to debt collectors many years ago (although cabot provided no details – company name, amounts etc, so I’ll never be sure). Unfortunately I’m v disorganised and can find no trace of receipts from the 5/6 years ago this all occurred (although I remember the burly guy writing me one on a yellow scrap of paper on my doorstep!) and as I felt the matter had been dealt with long ago, and I’ve since moved house three times, I’m fairly sure all evidence since shredded! Anyway. Got the standard ‘we’ll be sending someone round’ from Cabot just before Xmas last year, found you guys, was fairly confident that their threats were empty, and in fact it may not even be me they really wanted, and heard nothing more…

Last week, a letter/flyer from ‘Express Delivery’ asking ‘the Occupier’ to call 0870… I laughed as I showed it to my husband, as we discussed how it’s obviously a [problem] (I NEVER call 0870’s!) and shredded it (oops). Monday, letter from Ruthbridge (Jason Evans); re Cabot/Barclaycard debt £3600ish (my limit was £2000!) contact us immediately, or we’ll send someone round, you’ve been traced to this address etc etc. Yikes! So been on here a few nights looking at what the deal is, realised my mistake shredding the Express Delivery letter (how could I know this was related?!!) then today, a telephone call from ‘Jack Tyler’. Ruthbridge, asking me why I’ve failed to respond to their letter (of Monday!!! Caught me off guard – I guess they rely on this?!) re my Barclaycard debt. According to him, I took the card out in 1995 and defaulted on 17/12/2002 (at first he said 17/09/02 and I almost laughed out loud). He also told me lots of other things like ‘my bank balance is very healthy thank you – it’s you who has a problem!’ and when I told him I thought it would be more appropriate to send me some details in writing regarding who they are and how they have become responsible for collecting the alleged debt (which I'm so sure I've paid off), along with proof that they are legally allowed to collect, he told me ‘I will be sending you some paperwork today; to start the bankruptcy proceedings against you’. Needless to say, I kept cool, didn’t acknowledge the debt, or confirm or deny details, and still somehow he managed to get agitated enough to slam the phone down on me after 6 minutes. Anyway, I’m nervous now. I’ve prepared a letter based on the template to get the credit agreement, which I guess I need to send recorded tomorrow. But can anyone offer any advice/feedback? I have that horrible sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.

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No need to feel sick. Send the CCA request off to play for time because if you haven't acknowledged the debt or paid anything towards it for 6 years, the debt is Statute Barred - and that 6 years is up in December(it's 5 years in Scotland). After that there is nothing they can do about it and you can tell them where to go. I expect it is because it is approaching the 6 year deadline that they have contacted you now.

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You've done well so far Loo....and good advice from Pinky here....If they speak to you again...and if you are able to RECORD the call...

 

If you want to know a bit more about the request for the Credit Agreement and why have a read here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/164270-debt-wescot-lowell-unsecured.html

 

Ruthbridge will only probably respond by saying 'ring this number to respond to your enquiry'...other than that the usual threat of Xmas is cancelled etc will continue...keep the Express Delivery letter and pass it on to Trading Standards and send a copy of it to the OFT also...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi, update...

I sent the CCA letter on 20th Oct, recorded, and my royal mail report says it was delivered from their twickenham office on 21st Oct (I hope that's sufficient to say they received it?)

Then, I received another threatgram re bankrupcy, dated 23rd Oct, which I felt I could ignore as this was surely an oversight, being as they would definately have received my CCA request? Then another letter this saturday, again, no mention of my request, but offering me a settlement (the figure of which is still much more than the debt could ever have been!!).

Starting to panic now - have they received my CCA? Or is it just that we are so close to being SB'd (mid Dec according to the lovely guy who phoned me a few weeks ago) they're trying it on? Please; any help?? xx

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The offer of a discounted settlement is a sign that they can't produce an agreement; and yes, they're pushing to get something before it's statute-barred. Pretending that the CCA request doesn't exist is a ruse to mislead; take no notice.

 

They may try to bully you on the phone as a last resort. Don't engage with them at all; refuse to answer their security questions or hang up.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello all, Thank you again for replies; it's helping to keep me sane!!! Another letter today, in handwritten envelope;

'Contact Centre... it is imperitive you contact us to arrange a time for local agent to call. If you have not estanlished contact with this department within the next 7 days our agent will call between mon to fri 7 till 9, or saturday 7 till 530.

 

Still no response to my CCA request signed for on 21st Oct. What do I do? Do i need to write to them again? I'm sure they're not allowed to keep hassling me again when they've ignored my CCA request?

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Send recorded -

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

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  • 1 month later...

hello again, sorry to be back here so soon!!

 

A new letter today, which i had to sign for. "...you are hereby given notice that we have advised our client to commence bankruptcy proceedings for recovery of outstanding balance".

 

there is another offer of a reduced amount i can pay now to stop this. (lump sum). Included in the letter is a handwritten comp slip from JT, 'copy of agreement as requested (i asked for the CCA on 20th October). Call me asap to establish your intentions to avoid possible legal action'.

 

The letter includes various poor quality photocopies, A copy of a statment dated 13/02/2002, another one dated 13/03/2002, then a ridiculously poor copy of my application. One page, filled in on 19/12/1995 (i think), completed by someone else (the bank staff i guess) with my signature very clear, but no date. I do not see any evidence of Terms and Conditions, nor interest rates.

 

I was hoping this would all be over now as 'Jack Tyler' told me on the phone a couple of months ago that I defaulted on 17/12/2002. I'm sure the debt is wrong - I'm sure I paid this off to DC's a few years ago. I was hoping it would all go away, and now am getting increasingly concerned about the amount of correspondence i'm getting. Please does anyone have the next steps for me?

 

p.s. I just noticed that although they never acknowledged by CCA request until todays letter, they did reduce my balance by £1 at the exact time they would have received it! I was very clear in my letter that it was not to be used towards any alledged debt!

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Nothing to worry about - as long as you have retained the copy of the letter you sent stating that the £1 was NOT for payment to the alleged debt, they cannot state that it was. The alleged debt is now Statute Barred and they can send all the correspondence they like, they have rune out of time - what a shame:D

 

Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner

 

Scroll down to letter M, send by recorded delivery, print - don't sign - your name. Well done!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Another letter from Ruthbridge; I'm a little confused as it doesn't address the fact that the debt is (hopefully) sb'd, and also doesn't address the lack of a propper CCA. So, what do I do now? It's like banging my head against a brick wall! Any suggestions most gratefully received... xx

 

ok the attachment not great - this is the letter they sent me:

 

We write further to your letter of 020109 regarding your outstanding indebtedness to our above client.

We understand you requested a copy of your agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 despite you having stated that you have no agreement with our client. The agreement you previously had with Barclaycard Credit Card was purchased by our client and therefore the terms of that credit agreement are still effective and requires you to pay the outstanding balance.

However the agreement was terminated due to your non payment. You must note that the termination does not affect your liability to repay the debt and as a result of the termination you were required to return the property if any) and repay the balance in full in accordance with your agreement.

We can also clarify that you entered into the agreement on the 13/12/1995 and you paid a total of 80 monthly payments to the above client. The address given to locate you from was (a very old previous address).

All defaults will remain on your credit file until the debt is paid in full upon which it will be marked as satisfied.

To avoid legal proceedings being issued against you by our client, contact must be made on 0207… and your payment in full must be received within the next 7 days.

080109 edited.jpg

Edited by LooopyLoo
attachment too small
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You can completely ignore that and leave them hanging in mid air. The reference to previous transactions on the account is a sign of desperation. They don't have a credit agreement and the debt is now Statute Barred - letter M in the library here applies. Pour yourself a tipple, put your feet up and drink to the poor souls at Ruthbridge, whom you have left broken hearted with nothing to pay the rent:grin:

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Dear Sirs,

 

I write in response to your letter dated XXXXX

 

Your letter is incorrect and frivolous, you are fully aware of legally valid reasons why no payment has been made on this account, namely that the agreement which underpins this account has not been supplied despite a perfectly valid request and furthermore, it is suggested that notwithstanding the failure to supply a copy, the agreement itself is improperly executed, devoid of all prescribed terms and deficient in respect of detail relating to APR, total charge for credit and statements of rights ,remedies and protections as required by schedules 1,2 and 6 Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983

 

Therefore the agreement as outlined in section 65 (1) Consumer Credit Act must be laid before the court to be granted an enforcement order before any further action can be taken

 

It is my view that the court would not grant such an order due to the deficiencies that I have outlined within the agreement, further more this has already been raised with Barclaycard yet I note they have still assigned the account over to your 'client' and the absence of any documents disproving my points itself speaks volumes.

 

Therefore, I would indeed welcome the opportunity to place this before the court. furthermore should you proceed with the threats to issue a statutory demand I will make an immediate application to have it set aside for the grounds outlined above, also I shall refer the judge to this letter when the matter of costs falls due

 

I trust this outlines my position clearly enough for you

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Thanks again both of you. I've typed up the letter, i'm going to try to email it to them as it's a real pain having to get the old printer out and march to the post office with all the kids to send the letter by recorded! I trust that's ok. I'm beginning to see now that this quite possibly could go on forever... :-( Still. At least I've found you to help me through it!! ;)

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