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Arrow/Shoos claimform - old MBNA debt - settled by Tomlin - drydens now write saying pay us not Arrows?


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Defence submitted. :-D

 

Many thanks for everyone's help - esp andyorch & citizenB.

 

I'll update the thread when Ive heard back from the court about the next step - whatever that may be :?:

 

Ok, what happens now is that the opposition will see t hat you have submitted a defence and on time :)

 

They have 28 days to decide if they want to proceed.

 

If they dont notify the court within the 28 days, the claim becomes stayed by order of the court until such times as either side apply to either proceed or for the defendant to apply to have the claim struck out.

 

If they decide to proceed then you will receive an Allocation questionairre - you would complete and return and the claim will be moved to your local court.

 

If they decide not to proceed then they should let both the court and you know that they are discontinuing.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi toxic

 

Just a few pointers to help from my experience with MBNA and court proceedings

 

They placed a compliant DN in the bundle and stated the defective one (full balance) was a later issue implying I lied about which copy was sent first.

Their usual MO is to apply for summary judgement and rack up costs (4-5k) to scare you off.

They will try and settle 3 days before the trial date.

They may have made an assignment but failed to inform and will submit as with the DN above .

IMHO this could be a testing ground to see what your defence is and then edit documents before any hearing.

 

If you have any early statements (sorry i didn't check the whole thread for SAR) I'd check the minimum payment (2.25%) on the agreement against those statements

as they get this wrong which would prove the CCA is not a true and honest copy!

 

As for the creditor signature they can (I'm sure Andy will correct me if wrong) send you an unexecuted copy which becomes executed upon your signature.

It does look like it may be reconstituted but they should have told you that when they sent it!

 

Any other pointers glad to help, if its any consolation I'm paying back £30/month instead of £250.

 

Good luck

 

Ric

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HiRicardino

 

Many thanks for the tips & info. Much appreciated. Ive not had any response from them as yet but then again I doubt they will do anything until near their 28 day deadline.

 

The only statements I have is from recent the end of all of this from 2007, just before it all went wrong. Ive worked out from one 2007 statement that the minimum payment amounts to 2.24% but the account goes way back into the 90's. Are you saying they got it wrong way back or all the time?

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Not really

If the CCA they sent is a recon they could have got the wrong interest rate meaning its not a true copy. I'd do a SAR right away as even if they only supply six years worth there could be errors in there somewhere. I went back to 1998 (have all my statements) and they didn't argue the PPI or the overlimit & late fees just the contractual interest.

 

Ric

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  • 3 weeks later...
Just a quick question: Does the claimant's 28 days allowance to respond to my court defence include weekends?

 

Yes, it is calendar days - why ?

 

They dont actually respond to you - they will advise the court if they wish to proceed further and the court will then send you an Allocation questionairre and notice of transfer to your local court.

 

HTH

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Ah thanks. In that case their 28 days are up.

 

I wasn't sure if there would be an indication on the court website alerting me to the claimants decision. I assumed it would as its indicated their original claim followed by my acknowledgement and then my defence submission.

 

Do I also get informed by the court if they fail to respond?

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Do I also get informed by the court if they fail to respond?....No

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Thanks Andy...

 

Today I received a letter from Arrow Global notifying me that they have changed their solicitors "by way of service on you" it goes on to say "This matter is now being dealt with by our specialist litigation team"

 

The letter also includes a separate sheet entitled "NOTICE OF CHANGE OF SOLICITOR"

On this they have ticked box 'A' "Shoesmiths has ceased to act for me and I shall now be acting in person"

and box 'C' "We have served notice of this change on every party to the claim".

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Usual tactic from AG Toxic...have they informed you of the new Sol acting in the matter?

 

Regards

 

Andy

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No Andy... There is nothing in the brief letter or the notice of change of solicitor that states who their new solicitors are, just that they are representing themselves. (Box A).

 

Box 'B' would be where they state the new solicitor and they have left it black & un-ticked.

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Well I can assure you if they are dispatching Shoos for their own in house..you have had a close shave:wink:

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Really?

 

Here is the form (attached). Clearly states to tick either 'A' or 'B' and 'C'. As well as ticking 'A''

 

They state their address for correspondence is AG's Manchester office.

 

[ATTACH]39521[/ATTACH]

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Perhaps Shoos didnt fancy fighting the defence:lol:

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Bide your time and don't prod the bear too soon...the longer you can leave it the longer the file gathers dust and then becomes forgotten.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Today I received a N149 Allocation Questionnaire (Small Claims Track) form to fill in & return to the court by 10th December. Its a bit soggy from the rain but its just about intact.

 

Most of it is straight forward but I'm a little stuck on a few questions...

 

  • 1) Small Claims Track. What does that mean & do I tick the box saying I agree with this track? They are claiming over £10K if that helps with the answer.
  • 2) Location of Hearing. I need to give a reason why I want it moved from Northampton. Can I just put that Northampton is too far away from me?
  • 3) Other information. I dont have a clue what (if anything) I need to write in this section.
  • 4) It asks "If" I am attaching a fee. I can tick Yes or No. The only fee mentioned in the Courts covering letter is for the Claimant of £220. Am I right in thinking that this money is paid by the Claimant?

 

*gulp*

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Today I received a N149 Allocation Questionnaire (Small Claims Track) form to fill in & return to the court by 10th December. Its a bit soggy from the rain but its just about intact.

 

Most of it is straight forward but I'm a little stuck on a few questions...

 

    [*] 1) Small Claims Track. What does that mean & do I tick the box saying I agree with this track? They are claiming over £10K if that helps with the answer. If its over 10k it should be Fast Track N150 ?

    [*] 2) Location of Hearing. I need to give a reason why I want it moved from Northampton. Can I just put that Northampton is too far away from me? It will be transferred to your local CC on submission automatically

    [*] 3) Other information. I dont have a clue what (if anything) I need to write in this section.

    [*] 4) It asks "If" I am attaching a fee. I can tick Yes or No. The only fee mentioned in the Courts covering letter is for the Claimant of £220. Am I right in thinking that this money is paid by the Claimant? No fee for the Defendant

     

     

     

    *gulp*

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Today I received a N149 Allocation Questionnaire (Small Claims Track) form to fill in & return to the court by 10th December. Its a bit soggy from the rain but its just about intact.

 

Most of it is straight forward but I'm a little stuck on a few questions...

 

  • 1) Small Claims Track. What does that mean & do I tick the box saying I agree with this track? They are claiming over £10K if that helps with the answer. - Over £10k and they are suggesting small claims ? This is interesting - small claims is generally for claims under £5000 or without complications. Almost certainly you agree to this as it limits any costs. However, I think it pretty much does the same for them when they lose !
     
     
  • 2) Location of Hearing. I need to give a reason why I want it moved from Northampton. Can I just put that Northampton is too far away from me? You shouldnt have to give any reason for a move - it should be automatic to your local court as you are the defendant ? However, if it has changed and you do need to do this.. then the reason you require a local court is because as you say, Northampton is too far away and the Claimant is a large business - but perhaps wait for Andyorch to confirm that one.
     
  • 3) Other information. I dont have a clue what (if anything) I need to write in this section. Not sure - I think this is the bit where you can say this is unreasonable or you dont owe the money..etc - check with Andyorch
     
  • 4) It asks "If" I am attaching a fee. I can tick Yes or No. The only fee mentioned in the Courts covering letter is for the Claimant of £220. Am I right in thinking that this money is paid by the Claimant?

You tick NO.. as the defendant there is nothing for you to pay.. all down to the claimants for this.

 

*gulp*

 

I find it quite strange that Arrow and also Wescot take these claims back if there is a defence submitted ? I wonder if "proper" solicitors are getting fed up with having their names linked to cases being lost and will only agree to issue the claims if the likes of Wescot and Arrow take the claims back if there is a defence submitted?

 

Oops.. sorry, andyorch.. .. you beat me to it :lol:

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Don't submit it Toxic until we have clarified the " Other " section. Check with the court why you have received N149 as opposed to N150?

 

Andy

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Thanks Guys. Ill email the court & ask why it is a N149 & not a N150 tomorrow. The amount Arrow are claiming is actually nearly £12k - It was just under £10k when I stopped payments to MBNA in 2008.

 

No worries Andy I wont be submitting until I know what to put in the 'other information' bit.

 

I can scan the form up here if that helps?

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No need to upload I'm sure the N149 will have been sent out by error...here is an example of the N150...edit to suit:-

 

 

1. Have you sent a copy of this completed form to the other party Yes

 

A. SETTLEMENT

 

For All

 

1. Given that the rules require you to try to settle the claim before the hearing, do you want to attempt to settle at this stage?

 

Yes

 

 

 

B. LOCATION OF TRIAL

 

Is there any reason why your claim needs to be heard at a particular court? NO

 

C. PRE-ACTION PROTOCOLS

 

You are expected to comply with the relevant pre-action protocol.

 

Have you done so? No

 

If No, explain why?

 

This case is not covered by any approved protocol; I have tried to act reasonably in exchanging information and documents relevant to the claim but have had no response from the claimant in this regard.

 

 

 

D. CASE MANAGEMENT INFORMATION

 

What amount of the claim is in dispute? £XXXXXXXX

 

Applications

Have you made any application(s) in this claim? NO

 

Witnesses

 

Yourself All the facts in the case

 

 

 

Experts No

 

Track Fast Track

 

If you have indicated a track which would not be the normal track for the claim, please give a brief reason for your choice:

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the Fast Track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer.

 

 

 

E TRIAL OR FINAL HEARING

 

How long do you estimate the trial or final hearing will take? 4 Hours

 

Are there any days when you, an expert or an essential witness will not be able to attend court for the trial or hearing?

 

Give dates if applicable

 

F PROPOSED DIRECTIONS

 

Have you attached a list of the directions you think appropriate for the management of the claim? Yes

 

If Yes, have they been agreed with the other party? NO

 

G COSTS

 

Leave blank

 

H Fee

 

I OTHER INFORMATION

 

Have you attached documents to this questionnaire? YES

 

Have you sent these documents to the other partyYES

 

If Yes, when did they receive them?

 

Do you intend to make any applications in the immediate future? YES

 

If Yes, what for?

 

An order seeking the Claimants compliance with information previously requested.

 

In the space below, set out any other information you consider will help the judge to manage the claim.

 

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the Fast Track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer.

 

Therefore it stands to reason that this document must be disclosed before this case can progress any further.

 

___________________

 

#####DRAFT ORDER FOR DIRECTIONS######

 

In the ************* county court

 

Claim number **********

 

 

Between

************* - Claimant

 

 

and

 

 

xxxxxxxxxx - Defendant

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

 

o Copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with the consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations, which the claimant seeks to rely upon.

o Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended,

o Document, contract or deed of assignment

o Notice of assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

o Copies of any statement or other document relied upon

 

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve the following

 

o An amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks very much Andy :-)

 

I've emailed the court asking why I received the N149 and not the N150 given the claim is for mare than £5000. I've also found and printed an online N150 form. Can I insist that I use the N150 Fast track or is the courts decision final?

Do I need to send a copy of the form and submitted additional material to Arrow too? (the form asks if I have done this).

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The thresholds are marked for change (April 2013) so the SCT will be come £10k. I can only assume its an error but if they insist that you file the N149 ...go with it you far more protected against costs but less say in how the claim is progressed.

 

It is considered Civil to exchange AQ,s but wait until the Court confirm which one they want submitting.

 

Andy

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Arrow/Shoos claimform - old MBNA debt - settled by Tomlin - drydens now write saying pay us not Arrows?
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