The HPV Vaccine - is it a good idea ?

[patdavies]

As somebody who cares little either way on this subject (not being the parent of a girl in the relevant age range), I have to say that even to me, My Real Name's postings come across as arrogant, hectoring and bullying. He/she has references to back-up his/her claims but seem unable to accept any other viewpoint might be at all valid.

 

In all of this professional and statistical advice, and accepting that legislation has changed, let us not forget how strongly the medical profession once recommended thalidomide.

 

Lastly, for the parent of the girl who was vaccinated despite consent being explicitly refused; this act is legally an assault (technically, I think that it is GBH as the skin was punctured) and is therefore a Police matter.

[My Real Name]

As somebody who cares little either way on this subject (not being the parent of a girl in the relevant age range), I have to say that even to me, My Real Name's postings come across as arrogant, hectoring and bullying. He/she has references to back-up his/her claims but seem unable to accept any other viewpoint might be at all valid.

I'm trying, and have consistently tried, to understand and accept PriorityOne's viewpoint, to the point of all but explicitly stating "answer this question, as it will help me understand your viewpoint". Anything else is a response to criticism aimed at me, not at the content of my posts - Would you counsel the others in this thread to continue to attack me, as a person, as opposed to the content of what I write?

 

Your view may be that my posting is arrogant, hectoring and bullying. I fear that if I were to offer my opinion of others' posting styles, it would be entirely misonstrued, and risk being deleted by a moderator. But neither would I base my argument on my perception of the person.

 

All I ask is that people address the facts, not their inferences.

 

In all of this professional and statistical advice, and accepting that legislation has changed, let us not forget how strongly the medical profession once recommended thalidomide.

Absolutely. And it led to far tighter controls as to how pharmaceuticals are researched and tested. Was it "strongly recommended" though? I'm not sure you can make that claim. Was its use widerspread and the side effects tragic? Yes.

 

Lastly, for the parent of the girl who was vaccinated despite consent being explicitly refused; this act is legally an assault (technically, I think that it is GBH as the skin was punctured) and is therefore a Police matter.

I agree. The apparent disregard of the parent's views, and the apparent disregard of the child's wishes goes very much against the grain, and ought to be dealt with and investigated appropriately. But as a separate issue.

 

[Edit]

 

Fantastic... finally !....

A reply entirely commensurate with your previous posts.

Edited October 15, 2008 by My Real Name
removed any indication or suggestion that an insult was made

[PriorityOne]

 

I certainly have nothing further to add.

 

Fantastic... finally !....

[PriorityOne]

Almost a year after I started this thread.... a 14-yr-old girl dies after receiving the vaccine. Very sad... It'll be interesting to read what caused this.... and/or any spin that goes with it.

[Conniff]

The news has just said that she had underlying problems and it is very unlikely that the vacine was the cause.

[Bookworm]

I think people should be careful this doesn't turn into another "MMR causes autism" fiasco.

 

One girl dies, she had the vaccine, parents desperate for an answer to "why our daughter?" will leap to any conclusion however far-fetched.

 

Of course, I am sure the media will be eager to give us a well-balanced, non-sensationalistic coverage. Won't they?

[PriorityOne]

It's still a new vaccine.... and seeing as the Gov. want us to trust it so much, then it must be ok, mustn't it?

 

The girl in quesion may well have had an underlying medical condition.... but which one?....

[MsWeatherwax]

I think people should be careful this doesn't turn into another "MMR causes autism" fiasco.

 

*applauds*

 

I feel very sorry for the parents of this girl - as far as I have been able to tell it isn't them, but the media that have drawn the correlation between the HPV vaccine and this girls death. I hope they feel able to release the full details of the PM, because as long as the death is thought of as from "underlying causes" rather than a specific condition e.g heart failure or blood clot people will still believe HPV killed her.

 

I'm all for making informed choices about whether to have the vaccine or not, but please...not based on the fact The Sun are having a quiet news day and want to terrify everyone.

 

Just to lay my cards on the table....my 13 year old daughter had the vaccine last Wednesday. I'm also very proud to say that it was her very informed choice, with very minimal input from me.

[Bookworm]

It's still a new vaccine.... and seeing as the Gov. want us to trust it so much, then it must be ok, mustn't it?

No need to get so sarky about it, P1. Of course not, simply because the government says so doesn't make it ok. I spend a lot of time trying to educate people about statins and how potentially dangerous they are, I am a fierce defender of low-carb in opposition to all the "fat causes fat, death etc"... propaganda, I keep on telling people that "5 a day" is a government slogan and catchphrase, not a medical fact.

 

But by the same token, all new medications needn't be treated with suspicion simply because the health department promotes its use. With that kind of thinking, TB and polio would still be rife, and of course, we all know what the MMR unwarranted scare has done for measles, don't we?

 

Humanly, 1 death of a teenage girl is one too many. But it happens. Statistically, however, it seems unlikely that that one death and the vaccine are linked. Having said that, of course, it is possible that the poor girl's PMH caused an adverse reaction, we simply don't know.

 

Medical trial by the Daily Mail or the Sun. MUCH more credible than the Health Service.

[My Real Name]

In the year since the OP, approximately 900 women would have died from cervical cancer (extrapolating from available statistics).

 

A significant proportion of those diagnosed with the disease (2,000+ women) would have been required to undergo radical hysterectomies.

 

Correlation does not equal causation.

[PriorityOne]

Ok..... I'm in the minority, it seems..... No choice but to agree to disagree on this one for now, or it'll just drag on.

 

For the record though.... I DO NOT read "The Sun"... p-lease!!!

[MsWeatherwax]

Ok..... I'm in the minority, it seems..... No choice but to agree to disagree on this one for now, or it'll just drag on.

 

For the record though.... I DO NOT read "The Sun"... p-lease!!!

 

I was referring more to the people who believe that the vaccine is a vaccine against cancer itself and the saviour of all mankind, then turn on a sixpence and decide that it's the spawn of Satan because they've read one very flawed bit of reporting by someone who knows as much as they do.

 

I've read the whole thread and I completely respect and understand why you've made the choice you did. I thought the same things myself, we just ended up at different conclusions.

 

P.S: I agree with you about Ritalin, but that's a whole nother story.

[PriorityOne]

I was referring more to the people who believe that the vaccine is a vaccine against cancer itself and the saviour of all mankind, then turn on a sixpence and decide that it's the spawn of Satan because they've read one very flawed bit of reporting by someone who knows as much as they do.

 

I've read the whole thread and I completely respect and understand why you've made the choice you did. I thought the same things myself, we just ended up at different conclusions.

 

P.S: I agree with you about Ritalin, but that's a whole nother story.

 

Thank you MsWeatherwax....

 

Don't get me started on Ritalin though...!!!

[MsWeatherwax]

Thank you MsWeatherwax....

 

Don't get me started on Ritalin though...!!!

 

Me neither, I still firmly believe it's responsible for many of my peculiarities (and there's quite a few, I assure you). That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Bookworm]

Well P1 and I have had the odd argument or 2 about Ritalin, so I won't start again on here... But don't throw the baby with the bathwater. On genuine ADHD, you should hear what the parents have to say, it literally makes the difference between a child who can be managed and one who can't. Mis-diagnosis of ADHD and subsequent prescription of Ritalin is a different subject altogether. ;-)

 

MsW, with a nick like yours, you can be as odd as you like, I would forgive you anyway. I've got a really good avatar for you to use too:

 

 

;-)

[Lula]

I think that even if it is shown that the poor girl that died, died because of the vaccine (and I dont beleive that this is the case) she would be in a very small unfortunate minority, there are always going to be people that react badly to medicines or vaccines, and they cant all be catered for.

 

P1, did your daughter have the vaccine in the end, as she was 18 surely the choice was hers to make, not yours

 

Cervical Cancer is a horrible cancer, doesnt usually present with many symptoms till it is too late and is a horrible way to dye, look at Jade Goody, 27 years old, tragic! would you want that to happen to your daughter, just because you didnt want her to have a jab?

[MsWeatherwax]

Well P1 and I have had the odd argument or 2 about Ritalin, so I won't start again on here... But don't throw the baby with the bathwater. On genuine ADHD, you should hear what the parents have to say, it literally makes the difference between a child who can be managed and one who can't. Mis-diagnosis of ADHD and subsequent prescription of Ritalin is a different subject altogether. ;-)

 

MsW, with a nick like yours, you can be as odd as you like, I would forgive you anyway. I've got a really good avatar for you to use too:

 

 

;-)

 

LOL - that's brilliant! I'd never even thought of using The Divine Ms W in an avatar! I'm on it as we speak - thanks for that.

 

My issue with Ritalin I suspect is the same as yours, then. They didn't have ADHD back in the dawn of time when I were a young 'un, it was still plain old hyperactivity. However, I didn't have that either, just an irritating habit of removing moving parts from things because I liked to know how things worked and I probably over-used the word "Why?". I wasn't a great sleeper either, to be fair. I just disagree strongly with drugging the curiosity out of intelligent children because they don't just sit quietly all the time and require a bit of attention to keep them engaged...in my case, Ritalin happened because my first teacher told my mother I was "uncontrollable and unmanageable" because I was finishing the books and puzzles she gave me too quickly, wouldn't admit to lying about having read them from cover to cover and fidgeted when I was made to sit with my hands on my lap until everyone else had finished what they were doing. I'm certain that there's plenty of other kids through the last couple of decades who get saddled with the ADHD tag when all they're suffering from is lazy adults.

 

*drags thread back on topic* Sorry chaps.

[PriorityOne]

My daughter did not have the vaccine... no. There were several who didn't and I did give her the option to decide for herself. As for Jade Goody.... I won't comment other than to say that she'd had a questionable smear test some years ealier, which was ignored (apparently), so there may have been other factors. Vaccine or not, women will still have to have regular smear tests.... and, as my daughter had already been sexually active anyway, this did influence the decisios we made.

 

As for ADHD.... I don't believe in it as a widespread phenomenon and have seen far too much associated with my job; parents who want a "diagnosis" because it lets them off the hook for being cr*p at it and teachers who're convinced a child has it because they can't handle that particular child..... yet the same child is fantastic with a different member of staff.

 

Ritalin interferes with dopamine receptors in the brain, is linked to schizophrenia and is an amphetamine-based drug (If I remember rightly... it's been a while since I researched it).... but I'm sure someone will lynch me if I harp on about it.... so I won't.

 

[Bookworm]

Well, hoping this puts paid to any rumours or scaremongering:

 

Pulse - HPV vaccine girl 'died from tumour'

 

and

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/30/cancer-jab-death-coverage-irresponsible

[MsWeatherwax]

Well, hoping this puts paid to any rumours or scaremongering:

 

Pulse - HPV vaccine girl 'died from tumour'

 

and

 

Media accused of scaremongering on cancer jab death | Life and style | The Guardian

 

Hopefully, but still...

 

I was expecting undiagnosed heart condition or similar. Poor girl, poor family. That's a shocker.

[Jach]

I have read this with much interest and thought. As a parent of young girls I would say yes the vaccine is a major breakthrough against cervical cancer and have given informed consent for my 12 yr old to recieve the course of injections. A personal option we all have; whether we consent to our children being protected against this disease(though the girl immunised without consent is actually assault), thus it is open to each of us whether we decide it is safe, or the efficacy of it.

I have seen many women younger than myself die of this disease,and also seen many who have recieved treatment for cervical cancer. Yes smear tests are avialable later as stated by the OP but sometimes these detect the problem when it is too late.

My only advice is to research the literature, speak to a health professional and decide then what you believe is yr best course of action.

The MMR vaccine scare, (too long to enter into here) is not valid, read all the research, and question why the doctor originally made the claims he did. All research needs to be viewed objectively, i.e. who is funding the particular piece of research, are the persons producing it qualified to do so, why are they doing it?

Sorry if this exacerbates the discussion , but just felt I had to have my say.

[Bookworm]

Hear hear re the MMR vaccine!