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"The letter" regarding libel case


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(For those who do not know what I am talking about http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-forums-website-questions/163503-libel-action-against-cag.html)

 

Well, not sure if this can be posted yet(if not feel free to close).

 

I, for one, feel somewhat misled.

 

If the letter is to be taken at face value(and there is no reason to think otherwise) then the claimant has asked for a published apology.

 

Now I think that yes, there is clearly reasons not to do this initially. However, I feel that having been asked to donate money to the cause, when my hard earned money is going on a "point of principle" NOT in fact a case that requires defending, I am somewhat let down.

 

At the very least, this should have been made clear, and people could have made an educated decision. At best, this has not been made clear, at worst, this has been "dramatised" to sound as if there is no choice to defend - and I actually feel the latter.

 

Do I think CAG should have to apologise? No. Do I feel it should be done before taking donations from people with the explicit requirement of defending an action that is nothing more than a point of principle? Yes absolutely - a point of principle can be defended, but not with others money.

 

I usually am a stalwart defender of CAG policies, but I do not feel I can do so in this case.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

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REMOVED - decided best to reserve judgement currently.

Edited by MrShed

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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Just remove the offending messages, apologise and move on. People here can't afford to fund a massive six figure court case on a matter of being seen to back down, just do it and stop the begging process. I'm very annoyed tonight after reading this new information. I haven't even donated yet but can imagine those who have and are on benefits will be rather peeved.

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This is the first time that we have been informed that damages will not be demanded in a legal action.

 

We were told that we must put up an apology and that if we did not do so then we would be sued.

 

We saw no reason to put up an apology as we are the agrieved party in all of this.

 

Even without a claim for damages, the costs associated with losing this kind of action - and even associated with winning wold be very serious and would very likley result in the closure of the site. we could not hope to pay them.

 

If you really feel that we have misled you, then I apologise and we are very happy to repay any donations you have made.

 

We are a very honest site. we deal straightforwardly with people.

We delat very straightforwardly with Karneil when she worked for us and even afterwards and we believe that she betrayed us.

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Just remove the offending messages, apologise and move on. People here can't afford to fund a massive six figure court case on a matter of being seen to back down, just do it and stop the begging process. I'm very annoyed tonight after reading this new information. I haven't even donated yet but can imagine those who have and are on benefits will be rather peeved.

The messages have been remnoaved as far as I know.

 

The money has been repaid - although we were obliged to file a County Court action for its return and Karnevil filed a form of admission.

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(If the letter is to be taken at face value(and there is no reason to think otherwise)
Hmmmm... Isn't there? :rolleyes:

 

You could say that in one fell swoop, this letter is turning the tide of sympathy back towards someone who over the last couple of days had found themselves at the receiving end of a lot of hostility... You could also say that thanks to this doubt being sown in the minds of people like yourself, the flow of donations which can't have gone unnoticed by other less well-meaning people could then slow down back to a trickle...

 

I think there are plenty of reasons not to take this letter at face value, actually. Think about it. ;-)

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Will the site team, in the light of this letter and the cost to members, now reconsider posting an apology to get rid of this whole situation?

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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Hmmmm... Isn't there? :rolleyes:

 

You could say that in one fell swoop, this letter is turning the tide of sympathy back towards someone who over the last couple of days had found themselves at the receiving end of a lot of hostility... You could also say that thanks to this doubt being sown in the minds of people like yourself, the flow of donations which can't have gone unnoticed by other less well-meaning people could then slow down back to a trickle...

 

I think there are plenty of reasons not to take this letter at face value, actually. Think about it. ;-)

 

Actually, I think the solicitor is putting themselves into a very tricky position if they privately and publicly state that an apology is all that is requested, and then renege on this.

 

Moreover, BF has now confirmed that this is what was requested.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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Well I donated earlier and have no regrets about doing so and will do so again when I can. Having got to know how selfless the admins at CAG have behaved over the last 2 1/2 years since I first joined BAG or CAG as it is now, I fully back the way they have dealt with this and don't feel I have been misled in any way.

 

Carry on BF :)

25/06/08 - NatWest - Prelim letter

09/03/06 - Halifax - Settled 27/4

22/03/06 - Capital One - Settled 24/6

17/04/06 - Nationwide - Settled 8/9

 

 

Hit the DONATE BUTTON and give 5% back to support this site!

 

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The messages have been remnoaved as far as I know.

 

The money has been repaid - although we were obliged to file a County Court action for its return and Karnevil filed a form of admission.

 

I'm not trying to stick the boot in, believe me, but that letter is a way out (imo) to settle this at no cost and everyone can move on. I don't want the site to dissapear, that's all. I am behind you whatever you decide though BF.

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I, neither, am trying to stick the boot in.

 

however, the best interests of CAG have to be considered.

 

The best interests cannot possibly be served by risking the very survival of the site, as well as a substantial amount of money, in defending a point of principle.

 

It may be galling, but I feel any other decision than to get out of this whole sorry situation now is a bad one, and potentially irresponsible, due to the SOURCE of the cash to defend the action.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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I wasn't a member of this forum when this case came about last year; however all the advice I have been given or seen given by site team members leads me to believe that they would not enter a dispute like this unreasonably or maliciously, particularly if the potential was cost & grief to both themselves, their families & the forum members.

 

I therefore have no problems with the donations I have made.

 

None of the ordinary members of this site have full knowledge of the events in question & are therefore unable to assess this matter fairly or independently - indeed it could probably only be done in court or, if appropriate, industrial tribunal. We all need to hold our tongues & trust in the judgment of the team. In fact, if perhaps a little more reticence & respect had been shown by posters in the first place, the forum wouldn't be in this situation now.

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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We were told that we must put up an apology and that if we did not do so then we would be sued.

 

so wouldn't it have been easier to just apologise? Or was this treated like we do with the banks/credit cards etc - presumed it would never actually get into a courtroom?

 

Just my opinion.

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Many moons ago I went into chat and was a bit 'miffed' about a user, and had one of my wee whinges. Within seconds said admin assistant was there saying ' what are you saying about ******'

 

I thought it was a 'miracle'.

 

Does this explain it?

 

I 'learned' how to use the SPYPASS function of the flashchat room here FlashChat v4.8.1 . This page relating to the flashchat you are in is easily accessible through the ? Help button at the bottom of the chatscreen.

 

I used it on a few occassions - in the main to keep an eye on users such as Goliath77 - who were remarkably well behaved when a moderator was present, but caused a lot of problems when no team member was in the room.

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so wouldn't it have been easier to just apologise? Or was this treated like we do with the banks/credit cards etc - presumed it would never actually get into a courtroom?

 

Just my opinion.

Maybe it should be treated like with the banks/credit cards: Stand up to the bullies, if they're in the wrong then we should stand our ground, no matter how much money THEY have to fight their action. Just my opinion too. :-D

 

PS: We never presumed bank actions wouldn't get in to a courtroom, we always told people to prepare for court. ;)

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Many moons ago I went into chat and was a bit 'miffed' about a user, and had one of my wee whinges. Within seconds said admin assistant was there saying ' what are you saying about ******'

 

I thought it was a 'miracle'.

 

Does this explain it?

No, sorry, Thai, it WAS a miracle. Allegedly. :cool:
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Many moons ago I went into chat and was a bit 'miffed' about a user, and had one of my wee whinges. Within seconds said admin assistant was there saying ' what are you saying about ******'

 

I thought it was a 'miracle'.

 

Does this explain it?

 

This is hardly earth shattering to me in its current form, I'm sure more will come out in the wash (hopefully).

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I think bookie has hit the nail....

 

standing up to bullies................

 

 

also can i just point out some thing, for all those who are saying "just issue the apology"

 

if you found someone burgling your home, would you say sorry for being their victim?

 

if you were assaulted by a drunk, would you appologise to him or her for being in the way of their fist?

 

what im trying to say is when your in the right you should stand up for yourself not cower down and say sorry

 

well, when do we draw the line and say, we believe we are right and we blooming well are not going to give in!!

 

If it were me would i apologise? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! especially when you hold a honest belief that you are right

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If I was to be bankrupted if I did NOT apologise to the burglar, yes I absolutely would.

 

I would hate it with a passion, and believe it was fundamentally unfair, but I would, as it would be in my LONG TERM INTERESTS.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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Ah... but would you still do it if you believed with all your heart that the burglar would then come back, secure in his knowledge that he has you whipped forever more? At which point would you finally stand up and say: enough is enough? ;-) And finally, seeing only one piece of the puzzle, how do you know that maybe THIS is the point where CAG says "enough is enough"? (hypothetically, of course! :rolleyes:)

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If I was to be bankrupted if I did NOT apologise to the burglar, yes I absolutely would.

 

I would hate it with a passion, and believe it was fundamentally unfair, but I would, as it would be in my LONG TERM INTERESTS.

 

I have to say, there speaks the voice of reason.

 

And if people don't want to be reasonable, then fine, stand up for what you believe in, but do it with your own money, not someone else's, especialy if they can't afford to give it.

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I think that is a very easy view to take when there is no evidence to suggest this.

 

I think even the site team(of which you were once a part) will admit that this was a unique circumstance unlikely to happen again.

 

Besides, principles are great. This site however cannot afford to have them, as is patently obvious.

 

The decision to defend this claim is neither realistic, nor with its footing in the real world.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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I have to say, there speaks the voice of reason.

 

And if people don't want to be reasonable, then fine, stand up for what you believe in, but do it with your own money, not someone else's, especialy if they can't afford to give it.

 

SO its reasonable to apologise when your in the right?

 

im sorry but i fail to see your way of thinking in this matter, furthermore are we really convinced that an apology will sort this all out, im inclined to say pull the other one it plays dixie:mad:

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