County Court Claim received today

[Dibsthefrenchie]

I have received a County Court claim form today and do not know how to respond, the claimant is 1st Credit Finance Ltd.

It is for a bank overdraft that goes back to 1994, the last communication received was from Robinson Way & Co dated March 2000, I did not reply to the letter and had forgotten about this debt until today, on the POC it states that the debt was assigned to the claimant and that the notice has been given to me, this is the first I have heard about it.

I believe this debt to be statute barred, but I don't know how to proceed, I would be grateful for any advice.

Dibs.

Edited October 14, 2008 by Dibsthefrenchie

[hawk1979]

Dibs this debt is Statued Bared as it's over 6 years since any contact has been made with the the debt company and yourself. When was the last time you made any payment to the company that is chasing the debt ? What you should do is write back with the following

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Acc/Ref No 4563210025897412

 

You have contacted us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by ourselves.

 

We would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 “an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.”

 

We would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that “it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period”.

 

The last payment of this alleged debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from us in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, we suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

 

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that “continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970”.

 

We await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed and that no further contact will be made concerning the above account after that last letter.

 

We look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[42man]

Hi Dibs...fear not...I really hope you will fight this and claim your costs....you'll find this thread of great interest...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/162456-help-statute-barred-debt.html

 

Give a shout if you need any help...

[hawk1979]

Hi 42man so i was right in thinking that this is SD then ?

[Dibsthefrenchie]

Thank you both for such quick and positive replies.

42man, I will be fighting this, just a bit concerned of getting it wrong at this early stage! Thank you for the link, I have looked at Leerobs thread, mine is for a much larger debt and I am a little concerned that they will still go after the accrued interest, as has been suggested to Leerob.

Sorry to be a pain, but what do you think my best course of action is?

Many thanks for your time.

Dibs.

[42man]

Yes if you have neither made a payment towards or acknowledged the debt in 6 years, then it is statute barred...this is normally a complete defence...this is what grates me, they obviously know the debt is statute barred, but are hoping they will get judgement by default...

 

Well what usually happens is that you should acknowledge the claim within 14 days of the date on the claim.....then you have a further 14+3 days to submit a defence. What usually happens is a CPR 18 request is made to get them to reveal the paperwork...

 

Send this by recorded delivery to the opposing sols / claimant

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

i. Proof that the debt is not barred by the Statute of Limitations Act 1980

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

You might alos like to have a look here Dibs.. - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/146530-have-you-received-threatening.html

 

You MUST complain....

[leerob965]

with response to this if you click the link up that 42man has posted i am the author of that post and now my problems with 1st credit are soted thanks to the advice that was postd up on there

 

i must say the letter that was copied from there did the trick the reply was posted back to me the day that they recieved the letter

 

hope this helps

 

Here's that letter for delivery to the Claimant or where the Claimant proceeds by solicitor, to the solicitor.

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

Combined CPR 31.12 and CPR 16.4(2) Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court. I confirm having returned my Acknowledgement of Service form to the court indicating my intention to contest all of the proceedings.

 

Owing to the striking lack of particularity in your Particulars of Claim, I require the prompt disclosure by you pursuant to CPR 31.12 of each of the following documents, mention or reference to which would have been made had the Particulars of Claim contained the minimum of necessary particulars and complied generally with CPR PD 16.

 

1 the agreement giving rise to the obligation to Citi Financial for the credit advanced. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the deed or other instrument of assignment by which you / the Claimant acquired rights under the agreement disclosed by you under [1] above.

 

3 the default notice, the service of which was a condition precedent to the creation of the debt now sued upon by you pursuant to the assignment disclosed by you under [2] above.

 

Additionally and in relation to the interest claimed, pursuant to CPR 16.4(2)

 

4 Under CPR 16.4(2)(a)(i) please now state whether the claim to £7xx.xx includes a claim for interest under the agreement disclosed under [1] above and if so,

 

5 Under CPR 16.4(2)(b) specify the amount of that interest, and

 

6 the percentage rate of interest, the date from which it is calculated and the date to which it is calculated, alternatively

 

7 Where more than one percentage rate of interest has been applied or compound interest has been applied in the calculation of the amount of interest specified at [5], specify each element of interest comprising the sum for interest specified at [5] and for each such element specify the amount treated as principal in the interest calculation, the percentage rate of interest, the date from which it is calculated and the date to which it is calculated.

 

8 Of the interest amounting to £2xx.xx claimed pursuant to County Courts Act 1984 section 69, specify the date from which it is calculated and the date to which it is calculated.

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.12 request.

 

You should also ensure compliance with your CPR 16 duties and likewise ensure that the particular regarding interest are fully provided to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request.

 

If you are unable to comply with that part of this request concerned with CPR 31 and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with any part of this request or fail to request more time, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

 

 

with thanks for x20 for the above letter this will do the trick

Edited October 10, 2008 by leerob965

[42man]

Excellent a hearty thanks Leerob....

[Dibsthefrenchie]

Leerob & 42Man, a huge thank you to both of you for all your help, amended copy of Leerob's letter in the post by recorded delivery and i'm now about to write a letter of complaint to the OFT.

Dibs

Edited October 15, 2008 by Dibsthefrenchie

[Dibsthefrenchie]

I received in the post today a letter from 1st Credit stating that they had reviewed the file and found that the claim is indeed statute barred, they have included a Notice of Discontinuance with the letter.

Letters of complaint now being sent to the OFT, TS and FOS, they were clearly hoping to get a CCJ by default, i'm happy knowing that it's cost them a few hundred in court fees!

Thank you again for all the help, it was much appreciated.

Dibs x

[Lula]

Please dont take anything for granted until you receive something from the court stating that the case is discontinued, if you havnt heard anything within a week, then contact the court, do not rely on them to discontinue it, slippery little suckers they are

[leerob965]

WELL DONE

 

i recieved a notice of discontiuance with my letter is this a legal form?

it does state that it confirms a copy ha ben sent to all parties

[havinastella]

can you claim costs?

[Lula]

Until you receive official notification from the court to say that it is discontinued then it isn't.

 

I could say that I will send you a million quid, but I wont lol

[42man]

Good news Dibs....thank goodness you did something about it...you have to feel for those who are frightened and don't know their rights who get a life sentence (of paying £5 a week or whatever) for a statute barred debt...!!

 

I did read somewhere that if the claimant withdraws the action, you can claim costs but I can't find the thread at the moment.....Also don't rely on 1st pulling out until you have it in pillars of concrete !!!

[Dibsthefrenchie]

I intend to give it a couple of days and if I have not received confirmation from the court, I will check online at moneyclaim.gov.uk.

 

Leerob, have you had confirmation from the court? if not, I suggest you contact them, Lula's advice is sound, I have no intention of trusting the likes of 1st Credit, that said, i'm sure that if the Notice of Discontinuance was shown to the court, it would bring the matter to an abrubt halt!

 

I am not sure about claiming charges, I wouldn't have a clue what to claim and do you have to prove costs?

 

I have sent letters of complaint with regards the behaviour of 1st Credit Finance, to the FOS, TS and the OFT, the debt was statute barred before 1st Credit were registered at Companies House, trying it on or what?

[leerob965]

the form i recieved with the letter was a n279 notice of discintunuance signed by the paralegal from LCS solicitors i have just checked on moneyclaim.gov.uk and no details on there about the case getting a little worried after reading this it would seem i may be being led into a false sense of security

ill ring the courts tommorow

[Dibsthefrenchie]

Thanks 42man, I agree with you, the reason I have complained to FOS, TS and OFT, is because 1st Credit are hoping to find the unfortunate people that don't know their rights, and are intimidated into accepting the court action, that is clearly what 1st Credit are hoping for, otherwise, why would they pay out £310 in court fees on a debt that they knew was statute barred?

Looking at the threads on the forum, it's an action that they are frequently repeating and they must have success with some of these claims to make it worth their costs.

[Lula]

the form i recieved with the letter was a n279 notice of discintunuance signed by the paralegal from LCS solicitors i have just checked on moneyclaim.gov.uk and no details on there about the case getting a little worried after reading this it would seem i may be being led into a false sense of security

ill ring the courts tommorow

 

any idiot could print out one of those and fill it in, it means absolutely jack until it is ratified by a court

[Dibsthefrenchie]

Leerob, don't lose sleep over it, you have the Notice of Discontinuance, there is no way the court would allow the case to continue once you have produced it. I simply want clarification from the court, if I don't get it, then I will continue with my defence and willingly produce the Notice in court.

[leerob965]

my acknowledgement of service was recieved by the courts on 6th october

and the notice of discontunuance was recieved from LCS on the 8th

how long should i leave it to go thru the courts

im presuming it needs a official stamp

is it something i can sort out over the phone at NCCBC

[Dibsthefrenchie]

I'm sure it can, phone them, explain that you have received the N279 and require confirmation.

Dibs

[surfaceagentx20]

CPR 38.6(1) says:

Unless the court orders otherwise, a claimant who discontinues is liable for the costs which a defendant against whom he discontinues incurred on or before the date on which notice of discontinuance was served on him.

 

and CPR 44.12(1)(d) says:

 

Where a right to costs arises under –

(d) rule 38.6 (defendant’s right to costs where claimant discontinues),

 

a costs order will be deemed to have been made on the standard basis.

 

In other words a costs order is deemed. The rules import the existence of a costs order against the opponent right now so an order of discontinuance or costs order does not need to be sought, nor can one be expected.

 

You may thus proceed to draw up a bill of costs and begin detailed assessment proceedings. I can assist with dealing with the procedure if required. You have 3 months from the date of service of the notice of discontinuance to begin the detailed proceedings.

 

x20

[havinastella]

Hit them for costs Dibs

[Dibsthefrenchie]

Havinastella, i'm going for it!

 

X20, thank you for the offer of help, which I would be most grateful for, though, I need the dummies guide please, as i've not put in a claim for costs before and really haven't a clue where to start.

 

Leerob, hope you managed to get confirmation from the court today and it's put your mind at rest. Have you considered claiming for costs and have you made a complaint to all and sundry?

 

Dibs x