Welcome/Cohens - case withdrawn ***WOO-HOO ***

[pt2537]

Hi Paul, It does say Hire Purchase Agreement at the bottom of the agreement - hopefully this doesn't count? Also if you have time I would be grateful for any further advice. Many thanks, P

Oh ?? thats interesting, as far as i was aware it was headed as Consumer Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

so they seem to have an agreement here which has an identity crisis??

 

Have you posted a copy of the agreement on here?

 

It would be helpful to get a look at the agreement so that we can say one way or the other what is wrong with it

[Prudence]

Thankyou. The agreement letter followed by the agreement itself is on another thread (which is on the same subject). I typed them out as the print was very small. It's on this link:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/156368-please-help-setting-judgement-2.html

[Prudence]

By the way though, you are correct Paul in that it is headed CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

[surfaceagentx20]

The Default Notice presents a crisis also. The notice was issued on 22 June 2007 and required your compliance with it before 6 July 2007. It came by post. It would have arrived no earlier than 23 July 2007. It may have arrived later. The demand for compliance must allow a period of not less than 14 days after service for this to occur.

 

The creditor did not allow the minimum period and in consequence did not become entitled to terminate the agreement or claim early payment under section 87(1). It appears to be wanting to. I small a defence.

 

x20

[Prudence]

Hi Goldlady, and hope you did get a bit of sunshine today! And hope the wine has fired you up for some surefire winning arguments for my case! LOL! I have been lucky enough to have another two recruits - Paul and surfaceagentx20 also helping me this afternoon - see the other thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159527-help-please-only-4-a.html

I am hoping to gather up all the reasons people are suggesting to me and put them together then. I have been looking around to see what a Defence looks like but the ones I have come across look very complicated and are mostly irrelevant. Could you tell me what form it should take please? Can I put it down in the form of a letter/report? Many thanks. P

[Prudence]

Thankyou surfaceagent. So my Defence can consist of (1) Incorrect heading of the Hire Purchase Agreement (2) Our dispute of the amount of the claim as substantial charges were added (can we still dispute them even tho they are all amounts which they quote they will charge, ie £5 for a call, £10 for a letter etc) (3) The date of receipt of the Default Notice (4) the mis-selling of PPI. Does that sound feasible?

[surfaceagentx20]

Here is a working draft of a proposed defence. It incorporates at paragraph 5 an oportunity to defend any aspect of the claim which represents sums owing for PPI. At present I do not have any information on which to plead a defence to this aspect but you may care to fill in the blanks or provide better onformaion to enable a case to be pleaded. If a defence to PPI is not to be advanced, simply delete the paragraph and renumber the ones which follow.

 

Any queries just ask.

 

Here's the present draft@

 

 

1 The Defendant admits entering into an agreement with the Claimant and which was regulated by The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act). No admissions are made as to the terms, conditions or other provisions of the agreement and the extent to which the Claimant may or may not have complied therewith and the extent to which the Defendant may or may not have complied therewith. Further and alternatively, it is denied that the agreement was properly executed and/or is now enforceable in whole or in part.

 

2 It is denied that the Claimant served upon the Defendant a default notice pursuant to section 87(1) of The Act and which was in prescribed form and compliant with the provisions of section 88 of the Act.

 

3 The default notice relied upon by the Claimant was a notice dated 22 June 2007. Save that the notice was served upon the Defendant on a date thereafter and that service was by post, the Defendant is now unable to recall on what precise date and by what precise means the notice was served upon him/her. The notice failed to specify a date being a date 14 days after service of the notice or any date after service by when the Defendant was required to comply with the notice. Alternatively, the date specified in the notice by when the Defendant was required to comply was stated to be before 6 July 2007 which was not a date which was 14 days after service of the notice.

 

4 Without prejudice to the generality of the Defendant’s contentions set out at paragraph 1, the Defendant avers the Claimant terminated the agreement on 6 July 2007 and pursuant to termination that the Claimant has since made demand of the Defendant for the payment of money the subject of this claim.

 

[5 Incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant are sums claimed for payment protection insurance. [PPI] The Defendant was induced to enter into an agreement with the Claimant for PPI by relying on the representatations of the Claimant's agent [name of dealership] (the dealership) that (here set out brief details of the misleading representations). The representations were false in that (here set out brief details of the misrep or other misleading claims which induced entry into the PPI) . In the circumstances it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to recover sums incorporated in the claim and which represent sums allegedly owing for PPI.]

 

6 Further, incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant are sums claimed for administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions. It is denied (if it be alleged) that the Claimant has incurred any such fees and charges, alternatively that such fees and charges if incurred accurately represent sums lost by the Claimant by reason of any breach on the part of the Defendant. Alternatively, the Defendant avers the incorporation of such claims is penal and unenforceable at law.

 

7 Further and in any event, by reason of the matters set out at paragraphs 2 and 3 of this Defence and the requirements of section 87(1) of the Act, the steps taken by the Claimant and identified at paragraph 4 hereof were steps which the Claimant was not entitled to take.

 

8 In the circumstances neither the Claimant’s default notice nor its termination of the agreement gave rise to an entitlement to claim any of the relief now sought by the Claimant.

 

9 The Claimant’s claim to be entitled to £8,xxx.xx or any other relief following termination of the agremeent is denied.

 

I BELIEVE THAT THE CONTENTS OF THIS DEFENCE ARE TRUE.

 

Signed:

 

Dated:

 

x20

[Prudence]

Hi x20, WOW! Just a quick but HUGE THANK YOU for this before I will have a good read now and digest its contents. Am I supposed to send a copy to the other party (ie Welcome or their solicitors) or just need to give one copy to the judge and is it a hearing on Thursday, or just a hand-in?

[tinkerbell20]

You only need to file at court but solicitors wouldnormally send a copy to the other side too

[Prudence]

Thankyou Tinkerbell - so I only need to hand in one copy to the Court - it doesn't need to go on a special form or anything does it? Will there be a hearing? Or will the judge make a judgment on what it says in the Defence?

[surfaceagentx20]

You will need to add at the top of the form the name of the court. the case number and the names of the parties to the case and their position (Claimantt or Defendant). You will also need to title the document 'DEFENCE'.

 

Deliver a copy to the court. The court will then send it to the opponent with a notice that if they wish to carry on with the case they should tell the court within 28 days.

 

If they say:

 

we wan't out - the case ends

 

we want to carry on - the case will be transferred to your local county court and you will be told what will happen next.

 

nothing - the case is stayed and nothing will happen with the case until a party to it asks the court to proceed with it again.

 

x20

[Goldlady]

Hi Prudence, sorry I haven't been online earlier - computer problems. I will be back tomorrow even if I have to borrow someone's computer. As I said before I have done defences that are really simple, so don't worry too much.

[Prudence]

That's OK Goldlady. I'm just so overwhelmed at how helpful and generous you and others are on here. I only hope the bit of experience I'm gaining by going through this process can be of help to some other unfortunate person who finds themselves in similar circumstances. I think this site is brilliant and it's wonderful how people are helping each other to fight back at these leeches!

Anyway, as you'll see on the other thread I have a Defence kindly provided by surfaceagentx20. I am inclined to leave in no. 5 as we do feel very badly let down by the PPI. What do you think? See you tomorrow and thanks again.

[Prudence]

Thankyou. If nothing comes back from the Claimant, does that mean it could hang in the balance forever? Is there no time limit?

 

Under (3) of your wonderful Defence, do you think it would be better for me not to mention about not being able to remember how the Def Notice was delivered?

 

And lastly, do I need to produce any supporting documents with this Defence, or is it just delivered as is. By the way, the credit was in both our names but the judgment was in my husband's name only. Don't know if that makes any difference.

[surfaceagentx20]

Pru,

 

It could. But since either party can apply, in the event the Claimant does not wish the case to proceed and it therefore becomes stayed, that would be a good indication they are not interested in it. After say 6 months, if nothing has happened, apply to the court for the stay to be lifted and a direction the case be dismissed.

 

As to (3) I recommend you leave it as it is unless you do remember. The purpose of saying you don't remember is that the date and method of service (first class, second class etc) is thus put in doubt by both parties and in consequence the day on which the minimum period of 14 days begins is unascertainable. That can only work to your advantage.

 

You do not need to attach any supporting documents. The Defendants will be who ever has been sued. If only your husband has been sued, only he need enter a defence.

 

x20

[Prudence]

Thanks so much surfaceagentx20. Could you (or someone) please have a look at no. 5 of my Defence which I have completed (re the mis-selling of the PPI) and let me know if it sounds OK. Thanks. Got to hand it in tomorrow.

 

5 Incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant are sums claimed for payment protection insurance. [PPI] The Defendant was induced to enter into an agreement with the Claimant for PPI by relying on the representations of the Claimant's agent [Broker's Name] that the loan would be looked upon more favourably if PPI was taken out. Further the Claimant‘s agent did not make the Defendant aware of the exclusions of the policy. The representations were false in that the Claimant‘s agent told the Defendant that the PPI would cover the Defendant in the event of sickness or unemployment. The Defendant believes that the PPI was not fit for purpose. In the circumstances it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to recover sums incorporated in the claim and which represent sums allegedly owing for PPI.

[Goldlady]

Hi, sorry I have not been around - lost the internet connection. I think you need to elaborate on the PPI that you did try and claim, as I said on the other thread, and that if the PPI had been effective you would not be in this position now.

 

I would say something like:

 

The defendant wishes to point out that a claim was made on the payment protection insurance on and that detailed correspondence regarding this matter is available for the court. The claimant's insurance company refused to honour the insurance on the basis that the defendant's illness was a pre-existing condition, in spite of the defendant providing medical evidence to the contrary. The defendant was led to believe that he was insured against loss of earnings and in such an event the loan would have been repaid and this court action would not have been necessary.

 

Not brilliant for this time of night but I do think you need to say something of that nature.

[Goldlady]

Have just seen your post above. Something between the two of us should work:)

[Prudence]

Hi and thankyou Goldlady. Much appreciated - sounds good to me, will add it. I had two threads on this and my other one has disappeared!

[Goldlady]

It is here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/156368-please-help-setting-judgement-3.html#post1713132

 

But no new posts so probably not much help.

 

Need my bed, but will be back in the morning - if the computer will let me:mad:

[Prudence]

Thanks again for all your help. Will let everyone know what happens. Goodnight, sweet dreams!

[tinkerbell20]

Good luck:)

[Prudence]

Hello Again,

 

Sorry but I need help again please! I have an 'Allocation Questionnaire' which I must complete and hand in by Thursday. Firstly, the fact that I've received this questionnaire - does it indicate that the other party (Welcome) have responded in some way? Is it to enable the Court to decide how to proceed with the case?

Secondly I have read and re-read it and I really don't know how to answer a lot of the questions. Can someone please help me? I really don't want to jeopardise our chances now that we've got this far! Many thanks, P

[Prudence]

Please could someone give me some help with completing this Allocation Questionnaire? I have come this far against Welcome Finance and I don't want to spoil it now but I feel at a loss at how to answer the questions on this AQ. The story of my successfully getting Judgment Set Aside is on this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159527-help-please-only-4-a.html

It's asking if I want to try to settle the claim before the hearing, and if yes do I want a one month stay?

 

Then would I like the Court to arrange a mediation appointment?

 

Then asking if I complied with "Pre Action Protocols"?

 

What amount of the claim is in dispute? Their claim was for £8400 and as the final point on my "Defence" says "the claimant's claim to be entitled to £8400 or any other relief following termination of the agreement is denied" so I assume I would put down the whole amount??

 

Have we made any applications in this claim? I assume the answer is NO since this is the only action we have taken.

 

Witnesses - the claim was in my husband's name - although the credit agreement was in both of our names so do I put myself down as a witness?

 

Expert evidence? Several questions about this.

 

Which track - small claims, fast track or multi-track - looked this up and I see it is 'fast track' ?

 

How long we estimate the trial/hearing to take?

 

Proposed directions???

 

Estimate of our costs incurred? & overall?

 

And Fee - is there any fee for us? I thought it was for the Claimant, am I correct?

 

Documents - do we need to attach any documents? We sent in our Defence and there were no documents attached to that. Then it's

 

Do we intend to make any applications in the immediate future?

 

Any info we consider will help the judge to manage the claim?

 

I am starting to panic now! I dare not answer the questions till I'm sure in case I mess up!

 

I've just phoned the court to ask if the other party have submitted their AQ and they haven't (they have till 4pm tomorrow). Apparently if they don't the judge will order that they submit their AQ within 7 days. What it they don't after that?

 

Any help will be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!

Many thanks, P

 

[42man]

Hi Prudence i'm not an expert on these AQ's but there are a couple of links here which may help....i'm sure another cagger will be along to assist...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/158235-help-allocation-questionaire-soon-2.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131499-directions-n150-n149-allocation.html