Depoait deductions with no agreed inventory

[luxyboy]

Good morning all and many thanks for taking the time to look at this.

 

Just a quick note before I start I realise how crazy and naive I have been regarding a property that I rented out but we had just moved to England, this was the first property I have rented and we had just gotten married so we were understandably pretty excited and now regretting not being more vigilliant!

 

So here goes, we moved into our appartment on the 15th December 2006 on a one year contrat and then renewed for 10 months from the 1st December 2007 to the 30th September 2008 so have just moved out.

We have just gotten an email of the LA and they said they have made various deductions as the carpets were very grubby and some items were not as they were when we moved in, ie slight damage to them etc.

When we moved in we were given an inventory but after reading it, it became apparent that this was incorrect, one example it said that the appartment was fitted with brand new carpets before we moved in even though they hadnt. I noticed this on the first day so went to see the LA and told them of the problems and they said that they would get a new inventory written up. I therefore did not sign the inital one as it was not accurate. Sadly I did not chase up this inventory so now the LA are saying that this conversation never happened and therefore the appartment should of been left as stated in the inventory that I reported as being uncorrect.

 

Is there anything that I can do regarding this or is it just one of lifes lessons as seems to be just my word against theres and as they have my money is always worrying!

 

Have taken a day off work today to try to get this recified so any comments are greatly appreciated.

[labrat]

hang on for mr shed for the best answer.

 

but for as far as i know i if theres no signed inventory then they will have a hard time proving any damage and cannot make any deductions...

 

wait for mr shed to verify as im no expert im afraid im just learning by reading other posts

 

would appreciate being told if im right afaik

Edited October 6, 2008 by labrat
sorry correcting typos second bottle

[luxyboy]

Hi labrat and many thanks for taking the time to answer and hope Mr Shed has the time to answer.

[MrShed]

Hey LB - sorry for my delay in replying!

 

Basically labrat is right. The landlord needs a baseline condition of the property in order to prove damages, and without a SIGNED inventory this is nigh on impossible.

 

However, there is indeed a better argument. When you renewed the tenancy, did you receive any notification of the deposit being held in a TDS scheme? If not, then he has breached the Housing Act 2004, and you are entitled to the FULL return of the deposit, AND 3 x the value of the deposit in compensation, should you proceed to court.

 

Pretty strong case all in all!!

 

BTW - received your PM, and for public knowledge the OP offered to donate an amount to my chosen charity for assisting. I do not need or even want you to do this(although I do think it is a great gesture), I help where I can for free in order to in some small way help "educate"(and the "good feeling" ). What I would say is that if you are successful in your case, I am sure that this site would always appreciate a small donation All I ask is that I have helped, you leave me some reputation by clicking the scales

[luxyboy]

Many thanks MrShed!

 

I did not receive any information on the TDS scheme.

 

Should I write a letter to them to say something like:

"regarding your email wanting to deduct an amount from my deposit without a signed inventory I am now asking for the full return of my deposit otherwise I will be forced to take this matter to the small claims court. After investigating further on this it also becomes apparent that when I renewed my contract in December 2007 I should of been notified that my deposit was placed in a TDS scheme. Therefore if this matter goes to court I will be chasing the full deposit plus 3 times the amount in compensation. "

 

 

Is that okay?

 

Thanks again and will of course donate to the site!

[MrShed]

Dear rubbish landlord,

 

I write regarding your recent attempts to deduct an amount from the damage deposit you currently hold.

 

I respectfully request the return of the deposit in full within 7 days of this letter. Following this, I shall proceed to small claims court with no further notice. At this point, I will be suing for a total sum of £xxx(FOUR TIMES DEPOSIT VALUE HERE). As I am sure you are aware, you have breached the Housing Act 2004 in December, by not placing my deposit within a tenancy deposit scheme at the point of tenancy renewal, as required by the aforementioned act. Therefore, I shall pursue for the full recompense I am entitled to by law, which is the return of the entire deposit, plus three times the value of the deposit in compensation.

 

I eagerly await your response.

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

Try that

[luxyboy]

Great! Will try that and will keep you posted

[MrShed]

Good luck

[luxyboy]

Sorry just a quick one. Can I do this even though I have moved out? Gave read somewhere that you can't do this but might be getting the wrong end of the stick?

[MrShed]

Yes you can.

[luxyboy]

Thanks have posted the letter today to them so will update when they reply

[summer30]

Dont want to hijack the thread but I looked at the TDS before, as our tenancy was renewed every 6 months, twice this was after the TDS came into play

But when I looked at the sticky at the top of this section it said if they already had the deposit they didnt need to transfer it into the scheme?

[MrShed]

The sticky is wrong and needs changing

[luxyboy]

Just had a call off the LA and they said that my deposit is in a TDS and if i want I can see the certificate. I was of course not told this so what can i do now? thanks for your help

[MrShed]

Tell them you DO want to see the certificate.

[luxyboy]

Have done thanks!

Had a conversation with them and after a lot of shouting at their end told them that the appartments was in a better state than when we moved in (which it is might i add) and that as they had not bothered to do an inventory properly when we moved in that i wanted the full deposit back.

they said that they would speak to the LL and let me know.

 

There really was some shouting from their side about how i was accussing them bla bla bla!

[MrShed]

I very much doubt that they have protected the deposit - but we will see.

 

BTW, dont take the certificates word for it. When you see it, take a note of WHICH scheme it is protected under, and the reference number. Call the scheme, and ensure that the deposit is in fact protected.

 

If it is, post back here informing us which one it is.

[luxyboy]

thanks what a star you are!

[luxyboy]

The deposit is with the "The Dispute Service".

I am waiting to hear back from them on whether the deposit is protected so will update this then

[luxyboy]

Thanks again MrShed for all your help with this case.

I got a copy of the certificate today and have checked and the deposit is protected with the TDS.

[luxyboy]

This just gets more and more irritating!

 

The LA is now refusing to give us our deposit back as the LL says we have caused damage to various articles in the property. He says everything was new when we moved in so he can produce the invoices. I have of caused asked him for these since when we got the inventory I went to the LA the same day to say that this was incorrect as some items were listed as brand new which can't of been true.

 

Will let you know dates of invoices and how these fit in when we were in the property, so if someone could help me formulate an answer when I get these that would be great

[luxyboy]

One of the items that we are being accused of damaging is a table. We rented the property for just under 2 yesrs (21 months) and the LL has said the table is over 4 years old.

 

He has said to allow him to take the deposit as if otherwise the legal route will be very expensive to us both.

This seems a bit of a joke to me since the whole reason we didnt sign the inventory was that we noticed some damage that wasnt reported.

 

Will wait for the other invoices before i reply to hime though

[luxyboy]

Hi all,

 

Think we are begining to see the light at the end of the tunnel!

 

Our case has now been passed to the TDS as we cant agree on the deuctions. The LA and LL said that the carpets in our property were brand new when we moved in we requested a copy of the invoice and can see they were actually fitted 18 months before we moved in! The LA said it didnt matter as they should not be dirty on vacating the property so irrelevant if they were new or not! Funny as have an email and a letter saying that it was obvious that the appartment was in a worse condition as the carpets were brand new.

 

Will be interesting to see what the TDS make of this. I have numerous emails from the agent with them saying the carpets were definitely brand new and although i disputed the inventory it was correct. Can I send these emails to the TDS as sort of proves what the agent is like!

 

thanks

[Steve__M]

I would suggest that any evidence suggesting the landlord is not quite truthful would help including the threats about the "legal route" being expensive!

 

I understand that the TDS have some quite onerous requirements for landlords, including one that requires certain clauses ("Clause G" clauses) to be included in the tenancy agreement. I would therefore check your agreement as it seems likely that these clauses would identify TDS somehow. I can't tell you what they are as the Clauses aren't available publicly:

 

TDS -Documents & forms

 

In one case reported here, TDS have rejected a claim and advised the tenant to sue for deposit non-protection. (See StuzaTheGreat's threads).

[luxyboy]

Thanks for the reply and will have a look at the link you provided