Capquest/ Letter Re: Purchased Debt

[ScabHunter]

12+2 days have long expired. So far, so good.

 

Whether you send the Account In Dispute letter is an open question. You could do, or you could just keep it in reserve for when they annoy you again.

 

One thing has occurred to me. Capquest have sent statements to the OP, for no apparent reason. These are not proper statements, as there is no Egg logo on them. They are just computer printouts. These statements show the date of the last payment as Feb 2004.

 

Do you not think that the possible reason for sending these "statements" may just be to try and convince the original poster that the last payment was made in 2004, when in reality it was made at a far earlier date?

 

If you want to, you can SAR Egg to find out. Or, as there is no agreement as yet, you can keep that in reserve. It is up to you.

 

Personally, I would SAR Egg. You don't want to be in a situation where Capquest produce an agreement, and then issue a Statutory Demand straight after it, without you having anything else to dispute the alleged debt. If the statements show enough unlawful charges to take the balance below £750, then that is reason enough for a set aside.

 

I still wouldn't rule out the possiblility of the REAL statements showing an earlier date than 2004 for the last payment, either.

 

SH

[losingwilltolive]

Many Thanks SH- will keep you guys posted-

On a sample letter from 42Man- where i have to put the date of when the 12+2 expired is it 14 days after I posted the request? I posted request bty recorded delivery on 5th November

Thanks

[ODC]

One thing has occurred to me. Capquest have sent statements to the OP, for no apparent reason. These are not proper statements, as there is no Egg logo on them. They are just computer printouts. These statements show the date of the last payment as Feb 2004.

 

Do you not think that the possible reason for sending these "statements" may just be to try and convince the original poster that the last payment was made in 2004, when in reality it was made at a far earlier date?

 

If you want to, you can Subject Access Request Egg to find out. Or, as there is no agreement as yet, you can keep that in reserve. It is up to you.

 

Personally, I would Subject Access Request Egg. You don't want to be in a situation where Capquest produce an agreement, and then issue a Statutory Demand straight after it, without you having anything else to dispute the alleged debt. If the statements show enough unlawful charges to take the balance below £750, then that is reason enough for a set aside.

 

I still wouldn't rule out the possiblility of the REAL statements showing an earlier date than 2004 for the last payment, either.

 

SH

You are spot on re the statements SH. Crapquest tried the same ploy with me. Sent me statements I never requested. The statements showed activity on the account for a couple of years after the last payment made by me. Whilst a quick glance showed activity for those two years closer examination showed the actual last payment by me a couple of years earlier so Crapquest shot themselves in the foot by sending me statements which I hadnt asked for in the first place.

 

What I suugest to the OP before applying for an SAR is to carefully read the printouts and see if he or she can establish from them the date of the last ACTUAL payment. It could save 10 quid as Crapquest may have already proved they are already Statute Barred.

[losingwilltolive]

could anyone just advice the 12+2 days---is it then 14 working days the day i posted( 5th Nov) or does the 14 days start the day after posting(6th Nov)- only asking as i need to put a date of when Capquest defaulted on my CCA request

Thanks

[ODC]

Its 12 working days. The +2 are to allow for postal delivery.

 

If you can prove the actual date an item was delivered then the 12 days start from the following day. Otherwise the law assumes 1st clas mail delivered within 2 days. So it really doesnt matter if the muppets sign or not as long as you have proof of posting.

[losingwilltolive]

Many thanks- they accepted letter on 7th Nov- so the 12 working days expired on 25th Nov

[losingwilltolive]

UPDATE- and not a good one-CAQPQUESThave produced a CCA ( 2 pages) dated in DEC 99

I am now eriously concerned as i can't pay anywhere near the £20K claimed.

For reasons outlined in earlier post,a statutory demand leading to Bankruptcy is very bad ,only because of my work- Bankruptcy is not an option as will result in my position being terminated...

Please can anyone advice as i cannot go down the statutory demand rpute for fear of being declared bankrupt-

Do i now have to negotiate with these people? they have given me 7 days to respond or face escalated legal action

 

This is really worrying me and any help appreciated

[ODC]

If its dated way back in 1999 it may not have all the prescribed terms on it. Can you post it up minus personal details.

[losingwilltolive]

will try to post it up here( although last time i tried something like this it didn't work),in the meantime having got over this nightmare of receiving this i can now be more precise with details-i will also give below a very good idea of what's been received.

firstly, and my error-( card applied for in Dec 1999- but agreement signed JAN 2000)

 

the agreement is 3 pages:-

1st page starts 'credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974'

the 5 sub-headings on this 1st page are then :

About You:(personal details)

About EGG: ( postal address of egg)

About your EGG card: LIMITS ( 2 lines of description)

Interest & Credit Charges (15 lines approx)

Repayments ( brief descrption of how they will collect monthly)

 

2nd page : starts: Important-you should read this carefully-Your rights

this is approx 1/2 page A4 with signatires /date of both myself & on behalf of Egg

 

3rd Page : Instruction to your bank or Building society to pay by direct debit

 

As per my earlier post - i feel that i have again ended up in a real mess and one which is very serious as 'statuory demand/ banruptcy' -will lead to automatic loss of job-

They( capquest) have given me 7 days to respond.

 

Please can anyone advice/help- as i guess i'll need to compromise with them?? not really sure at all and am in a complete faze- it is certainly going to be another very bad xmas

Thank you

[losingwilltolive]

sorry to Bump-- but quite desperate now as they had only given me 7 days to respond.If anyone at all has any further advice re: my last 2 postings,i'd be grateful.

if this now means that i have to negotiate with them i'll need some advice on that also

thanks

[ScabHunter]

Don't do anything until that agreement has been checked out. If you have a scanner, you can post it up and we can look at it. If you are having problems, we can help, and if your scanner is not working you can probably find one in a public facility you can use.

 

This is why I believe that you should have sent the Subject Access Request to Egg. The probability was of them coming up with an enforceable agreement. £10 is bugger all to worry about when you are facing a £20,000 hit.

 

As of now, we have no proof that this alleged debt is not statute barred, or, if it is not, when it would become so. My advice would be to get the Subject Access Request sent off immediately. The problem is that they have 40 days to comply with this, so if Capquest get nasty the information may not arrive in time. This is why the Subject Access Request should have been sent before.

 

These statements you were sent before may well be fake, and Capquest's bluffing play to try and collect money on a statute barred debt. We just don't know.

 

The big problem will come if a statutory demand is issued. Even substantial charges on an alleged debt of this size will not put it below the £750 threshold level.

 

This is another reason why the Subject Access Request was so important. It may have given you ways of disputing the alleged debt based on the default notice not being valid, and/or the notice of assignment being improperly issued.

 

Can you remember whether you received either of these? Even better, have you retained copies?

 

Do not worry about seven day deadlines. They are standard on all DCA threatagrams and are irrelevant to this situation. What matters is doing the right thing and not making mistakes from now on.

 

My advice is to get a Subject Access Request sent off to Egg as soon as you possibly can. It is absolutely essential that we find out when the last payment was made on this alleged account. Scan up the agreement, but it sounds enforceable as most Egg agreements are.

 

Do not pay Capquest any money and do not acknowledge any alleged debt in writing. As of now, we have no way of knowing when this alleged debt becomes statute barred, if it has not done so already.

 

SH

[losingwilltolive]

Many Thanks-

Will keep all informed and will scan & upload agreement.

Will also send SAR-

If Capquest/Egg did send default notices/notices of assignment etc then no idea which address as i'd already moved.

 

Looking at statements,the last payment made was unfortunately in Early 2004- so not statute barred..

Although the SAR will go off - can this still be disputed prior to them issuing a Stat Demand- Although i do agree monies are owed it is not near the £20K claimed-so should i also inform Capquest that i do not agree with the figure claimed or shall i make no contact with them for a while

Thanks

[ScabHunter]

Looking at statements,the last payment made was unfortunately in Early 2004- so not statute barred..

 

That is the whole point. These so-called "statements" are nothing of the kind. They are just Capquest computer print outs.

 

You have to ask the question why Capquest have sent these printouts. We have already heard from ODC earlier that he was sent bogus printouts by Capquest claiming that he had made a payment long after he had done so in reality. I see no reason to assume that that is not the case here.

 

Of course, the printouts may be genuine, and Capquest may just be sending them to you to reinforce the genuine fact that the alleged debt is not statute barred. But I wouldn't assume that until it had been proven.

 

If a statutory demand is issued now, then you will need a reason to have it set aside. This will be a problem if the agreement is enforceable. Scan it in if you can and at least let us see. You can legitimately dispute this alleged debt on the basis of it being statute barred. You stated in post #9 that you believed that you made the last payment in late 2002 or early 2003. Late 2002, unless it was incredibly late 2002, would leave this alleged debt statute barred. You can quite legitimately state that you believe the alleged debt is statute barred. Printouts from Capquest suggesting otherwise are irrelevant. I can print off an invoice claiming you paid me £1,000,000 last week but you wouldn't believe it was genuine.

 

I would also challenge the fact that I had received no notice of assignment to suggest that Capquest had any right to collect on the alleged debt. If the SD does arrive, you can also try calling the contact given a few times, and see if you ever get put through. If not, you can claim that the SD is invalid.

 

For now I would not be admitting that monies are owed, or disputing any figures. If you do this, it could be construed as an acknowledgement in writing that some form of debt exists. If the alleged debt is only a month or so from going statute barred, such a move could be disastrous.

 

The only letter I would consider sending to Capquest is the statute barred letter 'M'. The burden of proof is on them to prove that the alleged debt is not statute barred, and computer printouts which could have been created and printed off by Mickey Mouse do not fulfil this requirement.

 

Personally, as you have only received a templated threatagram and nothing with any meaning, I would hold off even sending letter 'M' for the moment.

 

SH

[ODC]

Im with SH on this, now is the time to get an SAR off to Egg. Make sure you ask for EVERYTHING including copies of ALL correspondence as well as transcripts of all calls.

 

Do not make ANY written acknowledgement to Crapquest of anything.

 

If you have a serious dispute about the sums owed and the amount mentioned on an SD issued by Crapquest that is a reason to apply to have the SD Set Aside as is the fact you cannot get through to the person mentioned on the SD.

 

You have to ask yourself if Crapquest think they have such a watertight case why are they threatening to use the Bankruptcy Route rather than going for a CCJ. Is theie case as good as they make it out to be.

 

I have asked a couple of others on here to have a look and give an opinion but really what we need to see is what they sent purporting to be a CCA.

[losingwilltolive]

ok-- so far many thanks to SH & ODC- all views/opinions are welcome and certainly appreciated-

The SAR will go off 2moro- i will use the template here asking for everything

I certainly do dispute the amount that CAPQUEST are claiming , they may not view it as serious as it may not be big enough but i do-

As i have moved addresses in last 2/3 years - i have no idea whether they ever sent defaults, assignments etc- i can honestly say that i have never received anything for quite a few years-

 

for the SAR- i know for a fact that i have had many telephone calls with EGG in the past-- if they do not provide transcripts of this ,then do i have any other options??

 

initially i was believing myself that it was statute barred ( the SAR request will now show everything)- but i have to say that the more i have gone back and thinking about it- the last payment i made to them must have been mid/late 2003!! and not earlier as i had thought-

So i'll have to rely on other defences for any petition they throw at me--

 

As i have stated ,at the end of the day as Bankruptcy is not an option, i may end up having no choice but to arrange to pay most of this back-

One thing i have learned is that people like CAPQUEST play on percentages- they buy large debt for a fraction and then hopw they find some mug ( i.e. myself) who'll end up paying most of it so in their eyes its all been worth while and they will carry on and on--

If i could have beat them at this game it would have certainly made me a lot happier- I am not blameless as at the end of the day i incurred a debt and through buisness failure/ job changes ended up defaulting- but then for 3/4 years i hear nothing at all then all of a sudden they attack!!

 

All advice i have so far received is very much appreciated

Thanks

[losingwilltolive]

Hope i've attached it correctly and deleted all personal items-

If anymore advice then greatly appreciated and also if anyone has answers/advice to my queries in previous post

thanks

CCA 1-EGG-CAPQUEST.pdf

[ODC]

Is that all they sent. If so they are having a laff

[losingwilltolive]

hi ODC-

Please could you urgently-- the attached ( 3 pages) is all that came after i requested the CCA--

 

Apart from SAR what, if anything should i do now???

 

Excuse my naiveity but as the 3 pages sent were all signed i thought that's that and they have provided a proper CCA- i have no idea what they should be sending to my request

[ODC]

The first page which is the most important one is barely readable.

 

It must contain ALL of the prescribed terms and it must be easily readable.

 

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Pescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.

The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.

There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)

And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date.

[losingwilltolive]

HI ODC,

Thanks for the trouble you have gone to & sorry for my ignorance but i'm still not sure what i do next-- do i send them another letter?

thanks

[ODC]

What you do next will depend on what is actually on page one of what they sent you. Is the copy you have any more legible

[losingwilltolive]

i can just about read it but.... taking out personal details it's exactly the same as the one in following link by another poster:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/166209-egg-cca-enforceable.html?highlight=egg

[42man]

You'd really have to have a look at how a judge sees it....I know that some of the Egg stuff could be difficult to enforce (loans) due to multiple agreements, but the card agreements seem enforceable...if it is illegible then they haven't complied with your request, if the key information isn't legible, then -

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

 

Quote:

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

(2) The wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed

agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act

without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed

by these Regulations; and

(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote.

(3) Any such footnote shall not be treated as part of any Form prescribed by these Regulations and may be reproduced

in addition to any such Form.

(4) Where any such footnote requires any words to be omitted, those words shall be omitted or deleted.

 

It might be wise to hold out for the results of the SAR too....in the meantime a letter to CQ explaining that what they have sent you is illegible quoting the above might be a good idea...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/132968-looking-cca-74-quote.html

[losingwilltolive]

Hi 42Mann,

Many thanks- basically i can just about read it and so i think i would be clutching at straws if i said i couldn't make it out- excepting the personal details it is the same as in the post:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/166209-egg-cca-enforceable.html?highlight=egg

 

I now need to know what i should do next - they had initially given me 7 days to respond- i have 4/5 days left-

Do i ignore their time limits

do i now have to begrudingly try & negotiate the debt repayment with them??

Please could anyone advice

Thanks

[42man]

20k is a big amount....there must be some excessive charges too you can claim back....just make a proposal that you can afford. Have you SAR'ed too ?