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    • Sorry for typo - need to edit - Basically three entries they reported as wages were paid out, no wage slips provided and it was like I was a ghost employee. 
    • Later today then.   I will look at what there is again this pm and if any further ideas will post them.   NB - Need to remember to claim interest too.
    • I received a envelope through my post yesterday evening, from Newlyn PLC, stating that I need to pay £513 immediately or the bailiff would be back to remove my belongings.   I received x3 PCNs in quick succession early in 2021, from Croydon Council for the same street (during the height of Covid19).  The PCNs arrived at least 1 month after the alleged contravention. I paid the 1st PCN, thinking that i had committed the contravention . When i received the next 2 PCNs for the same street, I appealed them to the London Tribunals & won.   I never received any correspondence, PCN or anything else, in relation to the stated PCN, else I would have appealed it along with the other 2 PCNs.   How do a go about trying to quash this fee & stop the bailiff from attending my home? Thanks        https://apis.mail.aol.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-LTUuU3y7juhrLF96bFwg0OmfNzpshnye41vVIWg9EHWfVLoeKFkVUZAlvZzKF9_u-OZtZrw2rULBXQ-scIJXZQ/messages/@.id==AMoTSvAyk1QZYevj5guU2GdcPVI/content/parts/@.id==2/thumbnail?appid=aolwebmail&size=400w
    • Hi,   I get this is a taboo subject but really just wondered what should or may happen, as seems there is little guidance out there.  I apologise for war and peace, I just want to lay out what has gone on:   Basically I went to work early February 2020 for a very small company, (paye employee) who actually did quite well during the course of the pandemic, furloughed no body throughout much of that year only when it came to Christmas-time the boss became a little strange in behaviour and I was beginning to feel pushed out, sadly unbeknown to me, the boss started to look into furlough, not discussing this.   I left the company completely not knowing this and moved to another business.   Couple of months on, checking HMRC online tax account I was shocked to notice they were still recording full monthly wages with HRMC, at this point I am given the oh an accountant has made a mistake, it finally got to April before they put through zero's for that month's payroll as if that was going to change anything, the entries of previous month's wages still appear. I complete Census 2021 that I had never been furloughed. End of March 2021 HRMC then made it clear through the online account of mine, that the Employer did make claims from Dec 2020 and I followed the link to report. Basically three entries they reported as wages were never paid out, no wage slips provided and it was like I was a ghost employee.    Since then I have just gone round and round and round in circles with HRMC with their awful replies, there are two lines they like to use, one, is they just keeping me to report the Employer. (now at what would be third report!) Two, They just say "HMRC cannot provide information about individual applications or claims made by the employer and unfortunately, we cannot intervene in the dispute between both parties. You would need to discuss this matter with your employer." I have no idea why they don't acknowledge it as former employer - or are they trying to insinuate that my now current employer is responsible for sorting the mess?   - I get that a lot of this FF probably isn't going to be looked into but it feels like no support exists in getting things put right with HMRC and the employees (ex or current) of the fraud, surely can't remain the victim in paying for the crime.   Does anyone know if the business had been in a mistake situation genuinely or have long given the furlough money back in correct their error, would HRMC by now have made my account right?   I now have HMRC saying I've underpaid tax and have changed my payroll code, when I think the furlough fraud situation has something to do with it - HRMC have never been able to tell me with any certainty why/how I've underpaid tax.   Sadly I don't think I will ever got the ex boss to communicate with me and, in sorting it out like HMRC seem to advocate it's as easy to - a situation last October where I needed a job reference, saw the boss ask if my tax account was now right and me, saying quite calmly I saw the business furloughed me, the reaction just proved wrong-doing.   Do I now need a solicitor?  Or do I complete HMRC self assessment as Dad say's?   Please accept my apologies again if I sound like an idiot, I really want to get this sorted.  I just thought at first report instance, it would all get resolved but seems HMRC just wash their hands of it.      
    • Hi all,   I've been on a debt plan with Stepchange for over six years with one debtor being Thesis Servicing, the student loan company.    The other debtors on the Stepchange debt plan registered defaults from about three to six months after the debt plan was agreed, however Thesis had never defaulted....until now some six years and seven months since reduced payments were agreed vis Stepchange   I have this morning received three default notices, one for each student loan taken out.   I'm absolutely shocked and am not sure if they can actually do this so long after the  agreed debt plan payments (which I've never missed) If any one can help me I'd be extremely grateful.    Thank you.
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Councils - Is the supply of your details to bailiffs an offence under the Data Protection Act


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This is to set you all thinking. You supply your private details to a local authority for the purposes of being assessed for council tax. As a result the council becomes a data controller under Section 1 of the Data Protection Act 1998, whilst Section 4 demands that the data controller is charged with the protection of those details under what the Act describes as the data protection principles.

 

Given that the fundamental principle of the data protection act is protect ordinary citizens from having their private details exposed to others and in particular exposed to other private citizens without their knowledge or consent, would you consider that the passing on of those private details by a council without the knowledge or consent of the 'data subject' (i.e. you), to a another private citizen to be a breach of the Act?

 

Is the Act further breached given that the purpose of passing on this information by a council is likely to cause you harm or distress?

 

Given that councils pass on people's private details to private bailiffs every day for this very purpose, do you think that the use of private bailiffs by councils is illegal under the Act?

 

Your points of view are awaited.

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That's stretching things a bit in my view.

 

However on second thoughts you might have a point. It would be useful to find out if all these bailiff companies have data controllers as required by the DPA.

 

But what about individual bailiffs? There must be some inherited right for them to have your details.

I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

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I'm not so sure that anybody has an inherited right to be given somebody's private details by a council - unlike some government departments who can operate within the confines of the Data Protection Act when sharing info with third parties.

 

As you say Palamino, it is all very interesting and we should debate this on the forum. It could point us in the right direction if share a fairly common opinion.

 

The bottom line might just be all private bailiffs are indeed acting illegally in relation to council tax, parking contraventions and other matters. Radical maybe, but not impossible with so much legislation being thrown around nowadays. Sooner or later two laws had to conflict each other.

 

Reminds of how the unions worked to rule in the '60's and '70's in order to bring chaos to an industry.

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This is to set you all thinking. You supply your private details to a local authority for the purposes of being assessed for council tax. As a result the council becomes a data controller under Section 1 of the Data Protection Act 1998, whilst Section 4 demands that the data controller is charged with the protection of those details under what the Act describes as the data protection principles.

 

Given that the fundamental principle of the data protection act is protect ordinary citizens from having their private details exposed to others and in particular exposed to other private citizens without their knowledge or consent, would you consider that the passing on of those private details by a council without the knowledge or consent of the 'data subject' (i.e. you), to a another private citizen to be a breach of the Act?

 

Is the Act further breached given that the purpose of passing on this information by a council is likely to cause you harm or distress?

 

Given that councils pass on people's private details to private bailiffs every day for this very purpose, do you think that the use of private bailiffs by councils is illegal under the Act?

 

Your points of view are awaited.

 

WELL most of us would take it for granted that the law is not so stupid as to contain such a loophole. But loopholes galore have been found in many laws and we should not take it as read that such a situation is impossible in this case.

 

What we need is a test case.

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Sorry - I am almost certainly missing something obvious here, but when do councils ever release such information to private baliffs?

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Sorry - I am almost certainly missing something obvious here, but when do councils ever release such information to private baliffs?

 

Your name and address (amongst other things) are given to bailiffs. This information will personally identify you - that's the point of it after all. As such it is covered by the Data Protection Act.

I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

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Yes but when do they give such information? Are you talking about if a private creditor (e.g. MBNA) employs a DCA to chase, and then the DCA gets the information from the council? What process is followed to get this information from the council?

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Mr Shed - In the main we are talking about council tax where you are obliged by law to supply your private details to a council and on parking tickets where a local council buys your private details from the DVLA and then passes them on to a private bailiff for collection.

 

In both cases you are likely to receive visits at your house from unwelcome people who are not there to look after your interests.

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Thats what I thought you meant - was trying to drill it down.

 

If it is to enforce their OWN owed money, as opposed to supplying details to a third party creditor, then there are exemptions from the DPA with regards to legal and tax issues. Both parking tickets and council tax fall under this exemption.

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In what way? There are exemptions for legal and taxation reasons....?

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Crime and taxation

(1)Personal data processed for any of the following purposes—

(a)the prevention or detection of crime,

(b)the apprehension or prosecution of offenders, or

©the assessment or collection of any tax or duty or of any imposition of a similar nature,are exempt from the first data protection principle (except to the extent to which it requires compliance with the conditions in Schedules 2 and 3) and section 7 in any case to the extent to which the application of those provisions to the data would be likely to prejudice any of the matters mentioned in this subsection.

(2)Personal data which—

(a)are processed for the purpose of discharging statutory functions, and

(b)consist of information obtained for such a purpose from a person who had it in his possession for any of the purposes mentioned in subsection (1),are exempt from the subject information provisions to the same extent as personal data processed for any of the purposes mentioned in that subsection.

(3)Personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions in any case in which—

(a)the disclosure is for any of the purposes mentioned in subsection (1), and

(b)the application of those provisions in relation to the disclosure would be likely to prejudice any of the matters mentioned in that subsection.

(4)Personal data in respect of which the data controller is a relevant authority and which—

(a)consist of a classification applied to the data subject as part of a system of risk assessment which is operated by that authority for either of the following purposes—

(i)the assessment or collection of any tax or duty or any imposition of a similar nature, or

(ii)the prevention or detection of crime, or apprehension or prosecution of offenders, where the offence concerned involves any unlawful claim for any payment out of, or any unlawful application of, public funds, and

(b)are processed for either of those purposes,are exempt from section 7 to the extent to which the exemption is required in the interests of the operation of the system.

(5)In subsection (4)—

“public funds” includes funds provided by any Community institution;

“relevant authority” means—

(a)a government department,

(b)a local authority, or

©any other authority administering housing benefit or council tax benefit

 

Relevant section above.

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The important part above is the exemption from Section 7, which is the section under which a user would complain about unfair processing of data - i.e., releasing to a third party.

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Section 7 of the Data Protection Act appears to relate to the exemptions granted to a data controller in releasing information collected about an individual and then given back to that individual upon his request (S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)). I don't see where any third party entitlement comes into this.

 

The exemptions granted seem to concern reasons for not releasing information to that individual upon his request ie, The police cannot be expected to release details of information gained from a criminal investigation to the person being investigated. That principle would appear to apply to a taxation investigation.

 

Further in relation to parking, Manchester City Council, Marstons and Greater Manchester Police were in involved in a joint operation that involved motorists being stopped via police ANPR so that a bailiff could come and collect money from the person stopped over an alleged but unproven civil contravention.

 

Manchester City Council revoked this operation on July 25 when they realised that the passing on of private information most certainly did contravene the Data Protection Act.

 

One of the questions that remains is whether MCC felt that their passing of information on to Marstons was a breach of the Data Protection Act, or whether the subsequent passing of that information from Marstons to the police was the contravention.

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Section 7 doesnt relate to that at all - Section 7 relates to the prevention by individuals of data controllers processing data.

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DOH my apologies - no it doesnt.

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However, section 10 does:

 

Right to prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress

(1)Subject to subsection (2), an individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified purpose or in a specified manner, any personal data in respect of which he is the data subject, on the ground that, for specified reasons—

(a)the processing of those data or their processing for that purpose or in that manner is causing or is likely to cause substantial damage or substantial distress to him or to another, and

(b)that damage or distress is or would be unwarranted.

(2)Subsection (1) does not apply—

(a)in a case where any of the conditions in paragraphs 1 to 4 of Schedule 2 is met, or

 

Important section in bold above, as Schedule 2 specifically(or one of the first four paragraphs does) relates to the allowance of data processing to enforce legal obligations - i.e. taxation and fines.

 

1The data subject has given his consent to the processing.

2The processing is necessary—

(a)for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party, or

(b)for the taking of steps at the request of the data subject with a view to entering into a contract.

3The processing is necessary for compliance with any legal obligation to which the data controller is subject, other than an obligation imposed by contract.

4The processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interests of the data subject.

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Think? Its in black and white, in statute, that there is no breach of DPA :confused:opinions are of little importance really!

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Sorry - I know that, not meaning to argue :)

 

I just dont see what "opinion" there is :)

 

I think a more interesting debate is whether credit firms are allowed to release information to DCA's prior to court...

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By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

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"the prevention or detection of crime"

 

Non payment of council tax is a crime (like it or not) so passing on the details of someone commiting crime to prevent that crime is ok

 

The only time data protection is a problem is when the bailiff talks to a 3rd party ie anyone not on the liability order.

 

If it a Ltd company he may speak to anyone in employment of the said.

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"the prevention or detection of crime"

 

Non payment of council tax is a crime (like it or not) so passing on the details of someone commiting crime to prevent that crime is ok

 

The only time data protection is a problem is when the bailiff talks to a 3rd party ie anyone not on the liability order.

 

If it a Ltd company he may speak to anyone in employment of the said.

 

is it a crime?? i thought it was a civil matter. its dealt with in a county court not a magistrates court. or am i mistaken here

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"the prevention or detection of crime"

 

Non payment of council tax is a crime (like it or not) so passing on the details of someone commiting crime to prevent that crime is ok

 

The only time data protection is a problem is when the bailiff talks to a 3rd party ie anyone not on the liability order.

 

If it a Ltd company he may speak to anyone in employment of the said.

 

just found this

 

 

Not Paying Council Tax

 

 

What is the legal situation regarding non payment of Council Tax?

 

 

The following is by a qualified solicitor

 

 

The legal situation is that non-payment of Council Tax is not a crime, or anything illegal. It is only a civil matter, and a Liability Order is not a criminal order, not would anyone in receipt of a Liability Order have a criminal record. It does not even amount to a County Court Judgement, and it is not recorded by Registry Trust, which is the Government body responsible for recording County Court Judgements. The only two licensed credit reference agencies - Experian and Equifax - have both confirmed the above, as have Registry Trust.

 

 

The following is from the legal department of a local county council

 

 

Not paying Council Tax is certainly not a criminal offence and the issue of a liability order at the Magistrates Court does not create a criminal record, nor even does it affect your credit rating, unlike County Court judgements, which do!

 

The remedies for recovery of unpaid Council Tax are:

 

 

 

  • Attachment of earnings or benefits
  • Distraint Order (seizure of goods to the value of the debt by bailiffs)
  • Insolvency proceedings (bankruptcy)
  • Putting a charge on the debtor’s property
  • Imprisonment.

 

 

Costs are incurred for the issue of the summons (£25.70 currently), more costs are incurred for the issue of the liability (£25.00 currently), more costs are incurred when bailiffs are involved (various), more costs are incurred if committal is sought or a charge is put onto the property or bankruptcy action is taken. These costs vary according to the action taken.

 

The question regarding contempt of court has been referred to the Council's solicitor. However I have not, yet known anyone to be prosecuted for it.

 

 

T

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he liability order is not an order to pay. It is an order which gives the holder certain recovery tools, as have already been listed. It would be up to the Council to determine which tool to use, if that proves necessary. However, be aware that some tools are only available after taking other action, for example committal can only be requested after a Distraint Order has proved unsuccessful.

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