Please help me with 19 year old daughter's debts

[Khadijah]

Hi,

I am brand new to this forum. I have spent the last few days searching the web desperately and came across this site this morning. I have spent literally hours reading through posts and although all very helpful I am now close to tears and have information overload. So maybe if I summarise, someone can point us in the right direction.

 

Basically my 19 year old daughter has got herself into debt and is sinking because of charges etc and is scared. She has recently lost her job and looking for another one but is extremely depressed at the magnitude of the debts. I have managed to stop the phone calls by threatening legal action and stating categorically the phone is my personal one and nothing to do with her.

 

1. HSBC cancelled her overdraft facility - but agreed to reduce it gradually by £50 per month. So at the moment she is £180 in debit on a £130 overdraft.

 

2. VANQUIS credit card. She took this a couple of months after turning 18 with a ridiculous interest rate of 47.89% - the only credit card to accept her at 18 with no history. It had a £250 credit limit. Late payment fees and interest gradually took this up to £365. She paid off a chunk to get it down to £300. To be fair it seems to have stuck at £300 for a while now with no more additions, but FIRST CREDIT seem to be dealing with it to. She wrote a letter offering £5 a month. They rejected but said they would agree to her paying £15 a month for the next 6 months and then would review. This was vie IMPACT COLLECTION SERVICES. So just made £15 first payment for her!

 

3. VODAFONE. A contract taken out around April 2008. In May when she defaulted on her monthly payment they requested a termination fee of £535.05. Started repaying, defaulted again in June. They then requested termination fee of £498.28. Bear in mind she no longer uses this phone as the contract has been terminated! Wrote a letter asking to freeze charges and make nominal payment. No response. Now demanding £596.99. Although phone not in use and suspended I think they keep adding monthly charges and extra text bundles.

 

4. ORANGE. Yes she already owed money to Orange when the kind lad at Phones 4 U persuaded her to take out another contract, even though she told him she wouldn't be able to cause she owed Orange money (I had told her she would never get another phone contract whilst she owed Orange so she actually went with the intention of a PAYG!). So Orange phone contract was taken out in 2007 when she just turned 18. Obviously long since terminated. Passed over to NCO. Debt outstanding now £693.04. Passed to MOORCROFT DEBT AGENCY. Wrote letter and they have accepted a nominal payment of £5 a month. So I have also paid this to get her started.

 

5. I saved the nastiest to last. CAPITAL ONE. Again took a credit card with them on turning 18. Credit limit £200. Extremely high interest rate.Started charging overlimit fees and late payment fees and interest on monthly statements. She quickly got behind on her payments. Then came standing order payments for £30. By March 2008 the balance was £296.18. Now bear in mind she cannot use the card. I wrote a letter as a concerned relative in June 2008 asking for fair treatment and for them to freeze their high charges etc. Gave example of a payment of £100 she managed to make in february and in the same month they hit her with charges of £32.62 and explained it is difficult for an 18 year old etc. Got a reply in July asking her to call them. She sent a letter asking for correspondence by post and for a monthly agreement. Got a letter in August - statement of default saying she now owes £451.88. I cannot for the life of me see how???. Then this week a letter came from CREDIT SOLUTIONS asking for £451.88 and threatening debt collectors, county court claim etc. Then this morning I wasn't feeling great and ignored a manic doorbell ringer (thinking it just the post or meter man) and find a yellow card from POWER 2 CONTACT. Must be for Capital one I think.

 

So basically things have got out of hand especially with Capital One.

 

We have 3 decent agreements: HSBC, Vanquis and Orange - I presume I was right to agree to these. But still not happy about the amount owing with Orange.

 

But don't know what to do about Vodafone and feel very angry about Capital One - that a £200 limit credit card to an 18 year old can now end up as a £451 debt - and increasing it seems!!!!

 

PLEASE can someone who is more familiar with all this talk of CCAs and talk of charges refunds etc. advise me of a plan of action/how I should tackle Capital One and Vodafone and if I did the right thing with the other companies. I have one very depressed daughter who sees little point in trying to clear her debts when they just keep increasing no matter what she tries to do.

 

Sorry, sorry, sorry for the detail and length of this post, but thought it better to put more details than give a half story.

 

Thanks for ANY help.

[74656]

bump

[yourbank]

Was there any Payment Protection Insurance with any of the Credit Cards?

With the bank account was there any charges before she turned 18?

That is just for starters.....I am sure others will also add to this list of things.....

[PGH7447]

send crapital one a sar request and get all statements to see where the charges are from then start to reclaim them

 

also I realise that these are new cc but a cca request may not go amiss

[Khadijah]

Was there any Payment Protection Insurance with any of the Credit Cards?

With the bank account was there any charges before she turned 18?

That is just for starters.....I am sure others will also add to this list of things.....

 

 

Hi

 

no - no insurance and she took the cards/phones a few weeks after turning 18!

 

I just don't know from reading the forums if she will be able to claim back charges and if there is a point to requesting a CCA and other things suggested.

 

Thanks for any help

[PGH7447]

it cant harm to request them, you never know they may have screwed up when they completed the forms

[74656]

From experience, I think the first thing you need to do is write a list of who the Creditors are, and how much you owe them. I would then write to them requesting Statements and Credit Agreements.

These are known as Subject Access Requests and CCA requests. Read into these on other postings on the forum. It costs £1 for a Consumer Credit Agreement Request and £10 for a Subject Access Request. You may not be able to claim for a CCA on a mobile contract as it is a service and not a revolving credit account.

I think you need to find out exactly what financial position your daughter is in. Ask your daughter to write to the companies in question with a letter similar to that below...

Dear Sir, Madam

Re: Account Reference XXXXXXXX

I am writing to you today regarding the above debt, which you aledge that is owed by myself. I am unsure of the particulars of this situation and as such am now seeking advice regarding this situation.

I require you to forward me a TRUE balance on this account please.

Furthermore, I would like to ask you to hold any action on this account for a period of 21 days upon receipt of this letter. Finally, I formally request that you remove any telephone numbers you hold for me on this account. I am legally entitled to request this and no excuses will be accepted for non compliance. I wish to communicate via letter only from now on.

Awaiting your reply.

Yours Faithfully

YOUR DAUGHTERS NAME PRINT NOT SIGN.

I did this to all 26 of my creditors and they replied within a week and a half, with varied responses. Once you have a true balance you could then start requesting the consumer credit agreement on credit card accounts, catalogues and loans. When you receive a reply to the above letter send a CCA request...

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Account Reference XXXXXXXX

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

• You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement, which governs the above account reference. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) – your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1.00 cheque in payment of the statutory fee.
  
• A signed true copy of any deed of assignment that exists in relation to this account. If one does not exist, please be so kind as to confirm this in your reply.
  
• You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under s189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
  

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

You will be deemed to have been served notice of this request by ENTER 2 WORKING DAYS (M-F FROM DATE OF POSTING). If I do not receive a response by 23.59 on the ENTER 14 WORKING DAYS (M-F) FROM DATE OF POSTING you will enter into a default situation. If this occurs, you will not be able to enforce or attempt to collect this debt until you send me the documents I request.

Furthermore, I demand to communicate via letter only. Any phone calls received will be deemed to be harassment. I am familiar with the terms of s40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1970. I have a right to request you remove my telephone contact details from your records.

Awaiting your reply.

YOUR DAUGHTERS NAME PRINT NOT SIGN

Enc. £1 Cheque

When they reply, post again on this forum and ask others to see what to do next. It will vary for each response you receive from your creditors.

If they reply and indeed do have a valid CCA, then send them a Subject Access Request Letter, which can be found on the letter templates on this forum. This will get you copies of all of the statements, and other information that a company have held about your daughter for the past six years, or since the account was opened in your case. From this point you can then go about reclaiming charges.

You send a CCA request to any company or debt collection agency dealing with your account, but you must send a subject access request directly to the original company which opened the account. You can send the first letter to any company dealing with the account.

Finally, tell your daughter to print her name and not sign it. Whilst you are requesting CCA's and SAR's after you have had a reply to the first letter above, make a payment chart with offers of payment JUST INCASE.

Hope this helps, but this is basically what I have done and it is working very well for me so far.

To summarise

1) Get a balance of the account and ask to hold action.

2) Request CCA to see if debt is enforceable.

2a) If they do not reply after 12+2 woking days debt becomes unenforceable until they comply with request.

3) If debt is enforceable, request SAR to reclaim charges

4) As a last resort, start paying token payments if the above fails.

[rory32]

1. HSBC cancelled her overdraft facility - but agreed to reduce it gradually by £50 per month. So at the moment she is £180 in debit on a £130 overdraft.

 

If they have cancelled the overdraft facility I would have to assume that charges have been applied on several occassions to the account. These may come to more than the overdraft. If this is the case then I would start the process of reclaiming these back and open another bank account (basic bank accounts are probably her best bet) and start using that one.

2. VANQUIS credit card. She took this a couple of months after turning 18 with a ridiculous interest rate of 47.89% - the only credit card to accept her at 18 with no history. It had a £250 credit limit. Late payment fees and interest gradually took this up to £365. She paid off a chunk to get it down to £300. To be fair it seems to have stuck at £300 for a while now with no more additions, but FIRST CREDIT seem to be dealing with it to. She wrote a letter offering £5 a month. They rejected but said they would agree to her paying £15 a month for the next 6 months and then would review. This was vie IMPACT COLLECTION SERVICES. So just made £15 first payment for her!

Okay so there are definitely penalty charges on this account and she needs to start the process of reclaiming these. She also needs to inform 1st Credit in writing that the account is in dispute.

 

Regarding monthly payments did she fill out a budget showing what she can reasonably afford? DCA's will always try and up payments, often unreasonably, as they work on commission. She should be paying no more than she can reasonably afford. While I appreciate you want to help her you are not responsible for paying her debts.

3. VODAFONE. A contract taken out around April 2008. In May when she defaulted on her monthly payment they requested a termination fee of £535.05. Started repaying, defaulted again in June. They then requested termination fee of £498.28. Bear in mind she no longer uses this phone as the contract has been terminated! Wrote a letter asking to freeze charges and make nominal payment. No response. Now demanding £596.99. Although phone not in use and suspended I think they keep adding monthly charges and extra text bundles.

Does she still have a copy of the contract? They can not charge for services they are not providing.

4. ORANGE. Yes she already owed money to Orange when the kind lad at Phones 4 U persuaded her to take out another contract, even though she told him she wouldn't be able to cause she owed Orange money (I had told her she would never get another phone contract whilst she owed Orange so she actually went with the intention of a PAYG!). So Orange phone contract was taken out in 2007 when she just turned 18. Obviously long since terminated. Passed over to NCO. Debt outstanding now £693.04. Passed to MOORCROFT DEBT AGENCY. Wrote letter and they have accepted a nominal payment of £5 a month. So I have also paid this to get her started.

Again she needs to question what this outstanding balance is made up of as there may be ways of reducing the balance outstanding.

5. I saved the nastiest to last. CAPITAL ONE. Again took a credit card with them on turning 18. Credit limit £200. Extremely high interest rate.Started charging overlimit fees and late payment fees and interest on monthly statements. She quickly got behind on her payments. Then came standing order payments for £30. By March 2008 the balance was £296.18. Now bear in mind she cannot use the card. I wrote a letter as a concerned relative in June 2008 asking for fair treatment and for them to freeze their high charges etc. Gave example of a payment of £100 she managed to make in february and in the same month they hit her with charges of £32.62 and explained it is difficult for an 18 year old etc. Got a reply in July asking her to call them. She sent a letter asking for correspondence by post and for a monthly agreement. Got a letter in August - statement of default saying she now owes £451.88. I cannot for the life of me see how???. Then this week a letter came from CREDIT SOLUTIONS asking for £451.88 and threatening debt collectors, county court claim etc. Then this morning I wasn't feeling great and ignored a manic doorbell ringer (thinking it just the post or meter man) and find a yellow card from POWER 2 CONTACT. Must be for Capital one I think.

Again there are penalty charges (and interest on these charges) that can be claimed back to reduce the balance. She may find after this that it is actually Cap One who owe her money.

 

You don't have to put up with things like doorstep collection agents and you can revoke their license to call.

 

I just don't know from reading the forums if she will be able to claim back charges

 

Credit card charges have nothing to do with the current OFT test case so can quite easily be claimed back.

 

I think what you need to do is start a thread on each of these individual accounts so that you can receive detailed help on each one. It will also stop you from getting confused as obviously there is quite a lot to take in and the accounts are for different things so can't all be dealt with in the same manor.

[the_freedom_trail]

Hi Khadijah,

 

A lot of the guys on this site will offer you a lot of sound legal and practical advice. However, I understand that what you must be going through is emotionally challenging. There are many people out there that will take a tough stance and say that it is your daughters fault. Personally, I believe the system we live in is constructed in such a way as to put people in to the position in which your daughter finds herself. At the end of the day she is 19. You both have to let go of the situation. You have each other and that is all that matters, no debt collection agencies, country court orders or spurious threats through the post or over the phone will change that. If the worst comes to the worst, she will go bankrupt. It is likely that by the time she has recovered she will still only be in her mid 20's with the rest of her life ahead of her. I am 23 myself and an undergraduate business student. These banks and organisations are manipulators, they make millions/billions and then throw their rattles out the pram when human nature steps in and something goes wrong. Laugh at their letters, concentrate on what is important. They only matter if you let them. You are letting you and your daughter be hounded for the sake of little digits on a computer screen. Life is too short. What will happen if the worst comes to the worst, she will be made bankrupt and wont get credit for a few years - she'll be happier than most stuck in crap jobs trying to pay for a stupidly big TV they don't need or a car they can't afford.

 

Mike.

[the_freedom_trail]

Please note: I am not saying ignore the problems, just don't treat them so seriously.

[smt37]

Available to help...

 

To be honest, it sounds bad, but is probably a valuable lesson for your daughter which she will remember for her whole life and will learn some financial management skills from it. Try not to worry.

 

I wish this happened to me when I was 19. I'm in my thirties now and have unsecured debts of over £105,000. It all started when I was 18 with a Visa card. I managed to keep up minimum repayments and kept consolidating with loans for 14 years until recently, it all caught up with me and I had two loans and eight credit cards! I was living just beyond my means for all that time. £50 here and £20 there for 14 years! I'll be debt free in the next two years hopefully, but I'll never take credit again. I must have paid tens of thousands in interest charges...

 

A word of advice: don't help her yourself financially unless absolutely necessary and get her involved in this process. We can help.

[Khadijah]

thanks for all the advice guys. I will post as suggest - each debt query separately - the most urgent being Capital Once as they are hassling us to death - got a official correspondence from Power2contact this morning threatening to visit us to collect the debt if we don't call them in 72 hours. I find it unbelievable they can send such stuff out when we have sent 2 letters to them already asking to consider minimal monthly payments. They are just not interested - they just want to bully her it seems. I'm going to gather the info on this and post today.

 

Thanks again

[Misterzeus]

Hi Khadijah,

 

If Power2Contact knock on your door, just tell them to put everything in writing and also that if they don't leave you will call the police, then shut the door.

 

This is what Mr Z did back in May when Power2Contact called and they never came back.

 

Try not to worry too much, easier said than done I know.

 

Regards, Mrs Z

[Khadijah]

To summarise

 

1) Get a balance of the account and ask to hold action.

2) Request CCA to see if debt is enforceable.

2a) If they do not reply after 12+2 woking days debt becomes unenforceable until they comply with request.

3) If debt is enforceable, request S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to reclaim charges

4) As a last resort, start paying token payments if the above fails.

 

Hi

 

I sent the SAR request and £10 postal order on 2nd October recorded delivery. I have still received no reply from Capital One. What should I do now????

 

Help????

thankyou

[rory32]

I sent the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request and £10 postal order on 2nd October recorded delivery. I have still received no reply from Capital One.

They have 40 days from receipt to supply you with the information requested in you SAR. They still have some time left.

 

If they go over the 40 days then you send the non compliance letter in the templates library and if you still don't receive the information then you apply to the court for a court order forcing compliance.

[Khadijah]

thank you

 

when do i count the 40 days from? the day i posted the letter or the day they should have received it i.e. the following day?

 

also is this 40 days or 40 working days?

 

thanks

[rory32]

when do i count the 40 days from?

The day they received it. If you didn't send it via recorded delivery then allow 2 days for delivery.

also is this 40 days or 40 working days?

40 normal days.