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    • Hello,

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Mal v Lloyds


Mal
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Hi All,

 

I have had nothing but trouble from Lloyds over the years and after a particularly bad stint I moved over to NatWest but left an overdraft on the Lloyds account. I have agreed with Lloyds to reduce it by £x amount each month They have said they will stop anymore charges going on to it and are reducing the overdraft limit each month by the amount I pay have agreed to pay in.

 

Guess what! When they reduce the overdraft they send me a letter to tell me that I am over my overdraft and charge me for it even though I am not using the account, it does say that they have been very nice and made all my payments? (I don’t have any) my overdraft is increasing instead of going down!

 

The Incompetence that the bank has shown over the years beggars belief. They once charged me over £900 in one month for a problem they caused by removing my overdraft without warning 3 months early and it took me over a year to get it back as a ‘goodwill’ gesture

 

The last time I spoke to someone they even said that looking at our ‘file’ I shows there have been mistakes made!

 

As I have moved away it is quite fun talking to them as they don’t seen to know how to deal with anyone they can’t threaten by saying they will take away cheque book and cheque cards etc etc

 

I am sure that when I work it out the amount they have charged me over the years will more that cover the my overdraft.

 

I have just sent a DPA letter so watch this space

 

Mal :twisted:

Lloyds, DPA Letter issued 9/3/06

Lloyds, Preliminary approach letter issued 11/4/06

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Posted DPA letter on the 9th and had not got any feedback so e-mailed a copy

 

got the standard reply

 

Thank you for the e-mail.

 

I acknowledge your request for copies of statements/charge transactions on your account since 8th February 2000.

 

Your e-mail has been passed on to the Manager of the Service Recovery Unit and I have asked that he notes your requests and arranges for a response to be sent to you at the earliest opportunity.

 

Regards

 

Keith Boden

Lloyds TSB - Service Recovery

Birmingham

 

 

Bring it on :twisted:

 

That last bit was not on the reply

 

Mal

Lloyds, DPA Letter issued 9/3/06

Lloyds, Preliminary approach letter issued 11/4/06

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I have just had a very odd conversation with Lloyds. They sent me a letter today saying that they are giving me notice on withdrawing my overdraft! I phoned them up and the bent over backwards!! The friendliest and accommodating they had EVER been. Had they been in to room I think they would have been bowing!! ‘We will freze all the interest’, “We will credit charges (as a goodwill gesture)” , “I will put everything in writing” , “Very sorry!” , “ If you want to take this further I can give you the number!!!!!!”

 

Amazing what a bit of bad publicity and no doubt a note on my account can have

 

They have not seen anything yet :D

 

Mal

Lloyds, DPA Letter issued 9/3/06

Lloyds, Preliminary approach letter issued 11/4/06

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Just done a quick tally with online banking in the last 2 years £2694!!! no wonder I have no money

 

Mal

Lloyds, DPA Letter issued 9/3/06

Lloyds, Preliminary approach letter issued 11/4/06

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Hi, just wanted to share a classic Lloyds TSB scenario. I went slighly over my limit - they bounced DD's - before I know it I have £90 of charges. I'm over my limit (caused by them) they bounce more DDs before I can cancel them. £270 later, they put me through to lovely "we ripped off the customers with charges - now we'll be nice to them" dept. They agree to a new OD limit reducing by £50 per month to pay off THEIR costs.

 

I do as agreed - reducing by £50 per month over 6 months. My agreed limit is £400. I pay off £50 til I get back to the £400 limit. But mistakenly the take the last payment of the WRONG amount which takes me to £370.00OD. I have carefully managed the account not to go over £400 - but they now charge me cos I'm over their new £370 unagreed limit.

 

What a pile of muppets. It tool 4 calls to India and beyond to get someone to admit they were wrong and refund the charge.

 

I really do have better things to do with my time.

 

Glad I have £2500 case aginst them. Cant wait to recover every single penny.

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As we all seem to be getting standard responses to our requests even though some of our requests are different. Is this yet more evidence in our favor that all 99% of communication is automated etc?

 

 

Mal

Lloyds, DPA Letter issued 9/3/06

Lloyds, Preliminary approach letter issued 11/4/06

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Yes

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I got a letter from Lloyds today, I had not sent £10 as reading the post it looked like Lloyds waived the fee... All has changed

 

 

Reference Number: 1XX

Dear Mr Mal

 

 

Copy Statement Unit Account Services Group Operations

Swallow House

PO Box 139

10, Swallow Street

Birmingham

B12AL

 

Telephone: 08450707124

Facsimile: 08450707107

 

 

Your request for information under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Thank you for contacting Lloyds TSB Bank pIc to request transaction listings and details of events requiring manual intervention.

We will be pleased to provide this information on your account. If you require information on any other products or services (e.g. from Lloyds TSB General Insurance or other Lloyds TSB Group companies) please let us know.

 

As permitted by the Data Protection Act, the fee for providing personal information is £10. I would be grateful if you could please sign and return the enclosed copy of this letter in the prepaid envelope I've provided as your authority to debit your account with the fee or alternatively send us the appropriate amount by cheque. We require a cheque made payable to Lloyds TSB Bank pIc - please don't send cash.

 

Under the Act we are allowed up to forty days to fulfil your request starting from the receipt of the fee.

 

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

 

 

Yours sincerely,

Chris Brown

Copy Statement Unit

 

 

Mr Brown your cheque is in the post

 

What I found interesting was the reference number in the Hundreds!

 

Well another 40 Days but I am in no rush :twisted:

 

Mal

Lloyds, DPA Letter issued 9/3/06

Lloyds, Preliminary approach letter issued 11/4/06

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I had that exact same letter. I also emailed them a few days back with a copy of the DPA request. They e-mailed me back with the following:

 

Dear Mr Intersimi

 

Thank you for your e-mail's dated 19 March 2006 and 23 March 2006.

 

Unfortunately I am unable to add any further information to Mandy Horton's letter dated 10 March 2006 and can only refer you to the terms and conditions of your account. However, I respect that you have your own opinion about our charges.

 

Regarding your request for details of charges on your account since March 2000, I can advise that I am prepared to accept your request under the Data Protection Act. However I should point out that there is normally a £10 fee for information requested under Data Protection, although I am prepared to waive this on this occasion. I have asked for copy statements to be produced for the period in question, which will highlight the charges you have referred to and I will send these to you within the next three weeks, which I trust will be acceptable.

 

This letter is the bank's final response, which means that if you remain dissatisfied you may refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If you decide to pursue your complaint through the Financial Ombudsman Service you must do so within 6 months from the date of this letter. I have attached a leaflet, which outlines how to contact them.

 

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

David Just

Assistant Manager

regards,

 

InterSimi

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have just had my DPA Request back. All broken open and in Pst office sorry bags.... On examination the first entry from the customer notes says……….

 

MO STDLET

 

First Class Central Automatically Generated

 

Have Lloyds just shot themselves in the foot?

 

 

Then lots and lots of STDLET

 

Mal

Lloyds, DPA Letter issued 9/3/06

Lloyds, Preliminary approach letter issued 11/4/06

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The damaged package is becoming a regular occurance, and has been discussed elsewhere.

 

On the other issue it looks as though they have admitted that they have not manually done anything with those transactions - useful stuff, if they are daft enough to defend.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi!

 

Got mine back today...

 

full of STDLET

 

Only four cases of manual intervention since the account was opened in 1997..

1. returned bank charges in 1999 - £75

2. messed up traveller cheques refund

3. DPA req recvd

4. DPA chase and chq recvd.

 

All the other 10 pages were full of STDLET or similar!

 

I calculate that at approx 30p postage, less than 1 pence per sheet of paper and less than 1 pence for the ink, say 2 pence for computer programme time... thats a hell of a lot less than £20-£30 charge!!!!

 

LOULA

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My First approach letter went off today for just over £3500

 

The game is afoot

 

Mal

Lloyds, DPA Letter issued 9/3/06

Lloyds, Preliminary approach letter issued 11/4/06

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I have been working on a spreadsheet to work out the interest that the bank have charged us on the money they have taken from us and would like to run the thinking by somone

 

This is my thinking

 

for each charge also put on the sheet you ballance at that date if in OD

 

if the OD Ballance is more the the charges so far work out the interest cost on the charges so far. If the OD Ballance is less the the charges so far workout the interest cost on the OD

 

I know this is by no means perfect but I can't see any other way of working it out

 

Mal

Lloyds, DPA Letter issued 9/3/06

Lloyds, Preliminary approach letter issued 11/4/06

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Hi,

 

Not quite sure what you are getting at here. Are you trying to calculate the interest that you think the bank should have paid you on the money it took? If so, then you cannot realistically claim this until the claim goes to court...

 

However, if your statements have 'Interest Charges' as an item, then, whilst the bank is entitled to charge interest on an overdraft, unless it gives a breakdown it is next to impossible to calculate what interest the bank is entitled to.

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Yep it's the interest that we have been charge by the banks I am trying to work out. And yes it's impossible to work out. But I think my aproach will show that you have done your best to work it out if/when it goes in front o a Judge. And it's just as impossible for the banks to work it out and say no it's not

 

Mal

 

 

MODERATED post moved ... please stick to your original thread this is for everyones benefit.

Lloyds, DPA Letter issued 9/3/06

Lloyds, Preliminary approach letter issued 11/4/06

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The simplest solution is to put the interest charge claimed by the bank on your claim. If they wish to dispute this, and are able to demonstrate the proportionate interest payments, assuming that you agree with them then claim for the banks figure...that would look really good to a judge.

Good luck.

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Go a response to my first letter

 

guess what

 

Dear Mr Mal

 

Thank you for contacting us about your complaint. We are sorry that you feel we've let you down.

Weare looking into the issues you have raised and hope to give you a full response within the next 10 days.

 

You have our assurance that we will do our best to resolve your complaint. If you're not happy with our response for any reason, we have enclosed a copy of our leaflet 'How to voice your concerns' which gives you details about what to do next.

 

If you need to get in touch with us in the meantime, please use the address and telephone number at the top of this letter. When calling, please ask for Service Recovery Centre Manager at Colmore Row Birmingham.

 

Once again, thank you for raising this concern with us.

 

I guess they know that the 'How to voice your concerns' leaflet would be ignored because they didn't send one :) (maybe they have run out ;) )

 

Mal

Lloyds, DPA Letter issued 9/3/06

Lloyds, Preliminary approach letter issued 11/4/06

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Got a response to my first request today and guess what.....They said no :( not onlythat but they said no with a standard letter

 

Re: Account Charges for Overdraft Excesses and Returned Items

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about your account.

I understand that

 

• You feel that the charges you have incurred are unlawful.

• You are unhappy with the amount of charges you have incurred as a result of being overdrawn and from returned items .

• You have requested that all charges incurred should be refunded for the past 6 years.

 

When you become a customer, we give you details of any charges for the day to day running of your account. Details of our charges are also available from our branch staff, telephone helpline or our website.

 

For the vast majority of our customers banking with us can be completely free as charges are not made for services such as debit cards, cash machine withdrawals, balance requests, statements, cheque books and Internet banking. We also do not charge for processing Direct Debits and Standing Orders when they are paid through our customers' accounts.

 

One of the few services we apply charges for are when a customer does not have enough money in their account to meet payments they have requested us to make. If customers think they may exceed any limit they have, we urge them to contact us to discuss their requirements. Any requests for further lending are then assessed in line with our usual credit policy. Similarly, when we return an item, we are preventing a customer from exceeding their limit, and again as we explain clearly to our customers, this process incurs a charge

 

Typically, we do not levy customers an excess overdraft fee the first time they go overdrawn without agreement, as long as it hasn't happened in the past twelve months and we limit excess fees to a maximum of three occurrences in anyone month.

 

As a business we are entitled to set charges to cover additional work. These charges are not hidden and are notified in the guide to banking charges leaflet we produce. We advise our customers to ensure cleared funds are available in their accounts to meet payments due. You will also note that in the front of each cheque book we request that funds are available before cheques are issued.

 

You incurred charges because you did not ensure funds were available in your account to cover the payments set up by you. It is your responsibility to operate your account within any agreed limits and within the terms and conditions.

 

You accepted these terms when you opened your account and when you agreed your overdraft. We did not agree to pay your account in excess of the amount agreed without charges being made.

 

Accordingly, I am unable to agree with your request to refund the charges. We do expect your account to be run in line with the terms and conditions of its operation. This means that you must ensure that cleared funds are deposited into the account the working day before any payments are due. If you do not feel you will be able to run your account in accordance with the terms -and conditions, we may have to consider withdrawing certain facilities, such as any debit cards, overdrafts and chequebooks. Alternatively, you may wish to consider alternative banking arrangements.

 

In case you haven't received a copy of our leaflet called 'How to voice your concerns' I've enclosed one with my letter. This tells you all you need to know about resolving your complaint with us.

 

If you are unhappy with my decision and feel that you have something to add which might change the outcome, please get in touch. If we cannot agree on a solution at that point, I will help you refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service for independent arbitration.

 

 

One thing I did notice is this bit

 

You incurred charges because you did not ensure funds were available in your account to cover the payments set up by you.

 

does that mean that they don't charge when it's charges pushing me over the edge? i don't think so!

 

Anyway

 

Seconds away...... Round two!

 

Mal

Lloyds, DPA Letter issued 9/3/06

Lloyds, Preliminary approach letter issued 11/4/06

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I have just got my first no letter and I thought it may be it bit of fun to see how standard all our 'personal' letters our so if any of us have scanners with OCR software lets word cound the main body of the text and see it we are all getting the same old fob offs (as we know we are)

 

 

I know they are all automatic because had they spent more than 3 seconds looking at my account they would know that the threat of 'taking their ball home' is a bit hollow as I have taken all thier balls into the branch and shoved them some time ago

 

my first 'No' letter had 629 Words / 2981 Characters

 

so thats my first bid 629 Words

 

Mal

Lloyds, DPA Letter issued 9/3/06

Lloyds, Preliminary approach letter issued 11/4/06

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Hi Mal,

 

Don't have an OCR.

 

How about you scanning it in, then copying on here and creating a poll!!!

 

Then we can vote as to whether this is a standard reply or not.

 

My three letters are all the same and each paragraph starts...

 

P1. Thank you

I understand

you feel

you are

you have

 

P2. When You

P3. For the vast

P4. One of

P5. Typically

P6. As a business

P7. You incurred charges

P8. You accepted

P9. Accordingly

P10 In case

P11 If you are unhappy

 

Does that look like yours???????

 

LOULA

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