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MrShed v Halifax Card Services


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Duplicate posting(sorry) but only place I will get any answers I think....

 

 

 

Hi all, hopefully you can assist here!

 

Will try and be brief.

 

Basically Halifax have admitted charging me PPI on my credit card - they have agreed that I never entered into a contract regarding the PPI. I wanted:

 

- Full refund of all PPI charges

- Full interest at the rate on the CARD interest rate (NOT 8% interest rate) compounded.

- Full refund of all £12 penalty charges(about 6 of them) and removal of any blemishes on my credit file regarding this.

 

I will clarify the last point. I was making minimum payment only, and bills were getting sent to an old address(DD). The minimum payment WOULD have meant my balance dropped slightly each month, but the PPI meant that my balance increased slightly, to the point where I was overlimit 6 months in a row before finding out about it. My argument is that I would not have gone overlimit but for the PPI.

 

What I actually got last October due to formal complaint was:

 

- PARTIAL refund of PPI(almost complete)

- 8% interest(but NOT 8% per year, 8% total, so charges made in 2003 were effectively 2% interest per annum)

 

For some reason they missed some PPIs off, hence not a complete refund, and refused to add them on.

 

Just to clarify as well, I have in WRITING admission from Halifax that they have nothing to show I ever signed up for PPI, and also a copy of my CCA with the relevant box NOT ticked.

 

Also(sorry forgot!) - last year I paid off the card and closed the account totally - does this change matters at all?

 

This was all dealt with last October, but only just getting the chance to deal with this.

 

I have a few questions:

1) Am I now too late to go down Ombudsman route, as it has been 12 months since the final decision by Halifax?

2) Before proceeding to Ombudsman/SCC, is it worth giving Halifax the opportunity to "change their mind" by sending them a final letter?

3) Am I right to assume that I am entitled to my actual financial loss, hence I should be getting a refund of the contractual not statutory interest, as this is the interest they charged me hence the interest I should have refunded?

4) Am I right regarding my position with the penalty charges?

 

Answers to these, or any other advice, much appreciated!

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

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From what you say MrShed I agree with you points, the court system tries to put people back at the status quo. Bit busy for now but I will try to get a clearish example soon on how to work out what your owed as you kept on paying with no or little effect on the balance. As far as the ombudsman is concerned I dont know but if you send another letter wanting the outsatnding money then the issue has not been resovled so the accounts being closed shouldn't affect it. After all the help you have given here I was begining to think you are infallable, I'm sure there will be plenty of offers for help

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Thanks for the advice butty, appreciate it - you seem to confirm what I am thinking.

 

Just for reference as well for all, we arent talking a LOT of money. So far they have given me £120. My initial calculations give me around £300 - but I may tag 8% on the full amount for the last year ;)

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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hopefully the file attached will explain what I think, I have been trying to upload the bugger for an hour, doesnt like spreadsheets.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3939&stc=1&d=1222306212

 

 

If not I will try to sort it out by the weekend, butty

Untitled Document2.doc

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Grrr cant look - hasnt been approved yet!!! Asking mod :)

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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Cheers jonni :D

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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Not quite sure I get your document butty.

 

Here is my spreadsheet where I worked out the interest charged per month, and therefore the total charges and compound interest.

 

What you think, does it look right?

PPI.xls

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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I cant get in to your file MrShed, probably me being a biff. What i have tried to do is give two examples of a credit card, one with and one with out PPI. The second one is with PPI, after a certain amount of time just like yours it was paid off, say 6 months, I have tried to show an example of what cost might be involved for that card, you actually heva the real cost in your statements. In the first one I have shown what the cost should have been had PPi not been added. The difference between the two is what you are owed to make the status quo.

 

All you need to do is work out what it should have cost, i.e minimum payment up to the month before the balance was cleared, then add the balance which would have been the final payment to end the debt the same time as the real debt, i.e when you paid it of to close the account.

 

So if you made 10 payments in real life followed by the final payment to close the account, on the ''should have cost'' version you work out ten months of minimum payment (this is what you should have paid) followed by the balance which would clear the debt and put you in the position you should be in. The difference between the two as i say is what you are owed, minus anything they have already paid plus 8%.

 

I know it isn't particularly clear but its the best solution I can think of for working out what your owed.

 

If this is too much, you cant claim legal cost in the CC but can you claim an accountants cost. £200 probably for an even more accurate figure but if you can claim it back stick it in the bill

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Ah I see :)

 

Well that works to an extent, but what it does ignore is the interest I have had incurred on the wrongful charges - so it actually gives me a bit less than I have calculated otherwise.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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Hi MrShed,

 

Have you been in correspondence with Halifax about the issue since that final response?

 

 

If yes, when was the last response. I personally would call the FOS and speak to an advisor, ask to speak to somebody in the PPI team. Explain what has happened.

 

I don't know your personal situation, but if you have not accepted the final response and written back and forth several times since then and seriously need the cash, then the FOS may accept the case.

 

As you have it in writing from Halifax that you never signed up for the PPI your case should be pretty simple. I disagree with butty_a that the courts try to put people back at the status quo, that is what the FOS does and gives small amounts of compensation for it.

 

The court gives you what you are legally entitled to. You are entitled to 8% interest per annum, at a statutory rate, at minimum. In such a case where the error is nothing less than incompetence [note: I am not - god forbid - calling Halifax incompetent, only that such behaviour is incompetent, whoever it was carried out by] I can't see your case losing and think that Halifax would be stupid if they didn't settle if you sued them for it.

 

And if you do issue, and issue against the Scottish address, then don't forget to insert the disclaimer about jurisdiction [if you're in England, Wales or Northern Ireland] which is:

This court has the power under the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgment Act 1982 to hear and determine the claim with regard to person domiciled in a part of the United Kingdom (Schedule 4, Article 3 52(1) no proceedings involving the same cause of action are pending between the parties in Scotland, Northern Ireland or their convention territory of any contracting state as defined by Section 1(3) of the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgment Act 1982 (as amended by Section 2(5) of the Civil Jurisdiction Act 1991).

Without this the case will be struck out!

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:!: All the information I impart is my advice based on my experience. It does not constitute professional advice. If in doubt, always consult with a professional. :!:

 

:-) If you feel my post has been helpful, please click my scales. :-)

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Ah I see :)

 

Well that works to an extent, but what it does ignore is the interest I have had incurred on the wrongful charges - so it actually gives me a bit less than I have calculated otherwise.

 

That will be calculated in to the statments you have from halifax, they are providing you with the actual cost that you have paid including all the different rates of interest that are applicable , i.e more when overdrawn, normal rate when within the credit limit. You just need to know what you should have paid for a comparrison.

 

As for legal pickle, if MrShed won and was awrded the money owed plus the 8% then that I thought would be the status quo, thats the position they would have been in had halifax not taken the PPI. I might be using the term status quo wrong but the courts should decide an outcome on the evidence given and in this case, then put it right by awarding hopefully MrShed, MrShed gets his monewy back and halifax lose the money, with the interest there to re-address halifax's temporary gain and MrSheds temporary loss.

 

Either way there is more than one way to skin a cat and legalpickle (who cleary has more experience than me) has suggested another option which you wasn't sure you could do, this may negate the need for a court appearance but I dont know how the FOS works.

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Hi all,

 

I have not corresponded with Halifax about this at all since the final response, it was very much at "banging head against a brick wall" point.

 

So, do we think I should let Halifax know first again, giving them a final opportunity to settle, or just proceed straight to FOS/SCC?

 

Cheers!

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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As for legal pickle, if MrShed won and was awrded the money owed plus the 8% then that I thought would be the status quo, thats the position they would have been in had halifax not taken the PPI. I might be using the term status quo wrong but the courts should decide an outcome on the evidence given and in this case, then put it right by awarding hopefully MrShed, MrShed gets his monewy back and halifax lose the money, with the interest there to re-address halifax's temporary gain and MrSheds temporary loss.

 

Either way there is more than one way to skin a cat and legalpickle (who cleary has more experience than me) has suggested another option which you wasn't sure you could do, this may negate the need for a court appearance but I dont know how the FOS works.

 

But adding interest doesn't necessarily take a person back to the stage they were, it could put them in a better situation or a not as good situation. For example if MrShed claimed statutory instead of contractual interest, then he would be worse off.

 

Bottom line: The court doesn't look at putting the Claimant back in the same position as they were beforehand, only what is claimable at law. If that puts the Claimant back in the same position as they were without this hassle, then great, but if not, tough luck.

 

The FOS looks to do this on all occasions, even though some of their decisions seem to me to be blatantly in favour of the financial institution, though in MrShed's case, I fail to see how that would happen.

 

Re: Going to the FOS. It's worth checking into and seeing if it's an option. I personally would take court proceedings wherever I can, but that's me and a lot of people would rather not if they could avoid it. It's not definite that they will refuse it despite the delay. If MrShed can show he was in communication with them beyond that letter trying to settle the matter, because he considered that they had made a mistake, then they may take it on.

 

I had a case with Lloyds. The original deadlock letter came 9 months before I referred it to the FOS, but till about 3 weeks beforehand I had been writing back and forth to Lloyds.

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:!: All the information I impart is my advice based on my experience. It does not constitute professional advice. If in doubt, always consult with a professional. :!:

 

:-) If you feel my post has been helpful, please click my scales. :-)

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Just to confirm. I have just spoken to FOS who have told me that as I have a reference number, I CAN proceed with the complaint with them.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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