Boots-RLP coupon confusion - £250 demand

[sheffer2000]

Hello Everyone!

 

Sorry for this long message!

 

I just stumbled onto this forum when looking for some advice, and everyone seems really helpful so if you could offer me any help at all I would be really grateful.

 

About 2 weeks ago I was in a branch of Boots and using up some of my mum's coupons she had amassed for No 7 products and facial skincare (You receive coupons in Boots every time you spend £5 or £10 usually..and my mum shops in there so much!). Anyway I was putting these products in my basket when I saw a stand of bronzing kits which I thought would make ideal presents, so I placed four in my basket with the No 7 Products and facial skincare products I was buying with my vouchers. There was no price on the stand for the products.

 

I took my purchases to a self scanning checkout since the cashiers sometimes get quite frustrated if you give them a number of coupons, since only one coupon can be used per transaction and it takes up a fair amount of time. Anyway, after I had purchased these products I noticed that the bronzing kits had appeared on my receipt as a free item, so I assumed it was a free gift for purchasing other products in the store.

 

I then repeated the same transaction, using some of my mum's coupons towards some No 7 cosmetics and facial skincare products and buying some bronzing kits as well. All of the items were scanned at the checkout under the supervision of a boots employee.

 

After I left the store I was confronted by a security man who took me into a back room and said that I had shoplifted from Boots. I protested at this, saying I had scanned all my shopping through in the usual manner and paid the amount which the till had required. The store manager said the bronzing kits were a free item only when spending £15 on a different make-up range, and then said there were signs depicting this. However, I never noticed these signs, and the fact remains that there was no price on the shelf for these bronzing kits anyway. I was told I had acquired the products by deception and the kits were subsequently confiscated from me.

 

I was then arrested by the police and kept in a cell for 5 hours, after which a solicitor arrived who advised me that i could accept a police caution to end the matter. Since I wanted to get home as soon as possible I just accepted this, as I needed to make the dinner for my autistic brother and younger sister. The police gave me a caution and said I shouldn't hear anything else of the matter.

 

A few days later I received a letter from Retail Loss Prevention ltd (RLP) ordering me to pay £250 for security and administration costs in association with my 'detention'. I really do not feel I should have to pay this, since what happened was an honest mistake and I feel that is the fault of Boots who have failed to input the correct price for the product in question into the system.

 

Any advice you could give would be extremely appreciated. Should I write a reply to RLP ltd refusing to pay for the above reasons, or should I just ignore their letter?

[slick132]

Hi Sheffer and welcome to CAG.

 

I hope someone with appropriate experience will stop by and advise you soon.

 

In the meantime, if you scroll down the page to "SIMILAR THREADS", you'll find other threads about RLP, which will be worth reading to see what others have to say about their experiences.

[JonCris]

I strongly expect that you will have to get the caution overturned. It may be that the original legal advice was lacking so I suggest you go & see another criminal lawyer to seek advice

[aj84]

Why does this sound like the "media" should be involved to get Boots on this

I see no issue here and simply a genuine mistake by the op...as far as I'm concerned, Boots failed to label something properly

 

if it was a case of the product is free only when spending £15 or more, their systems should have KNOWN this and prevented a "free" purchase

 

Just like Tescos knows when you buy an BOGOF or BOGOHP item.... buy one, its charged as one, by two, the second is free (or half price) but it still will show on the receipt.

 

Personally, I would take this further and not only should it be overturned (the charge) but a formal apology from Boots for THEIR screwup should be recieved

Heck, I would even request compensation for the stress and jailtime!

 

I might be going OTT here but from what I can see, its their systems that are flawed not the consumer.

[sheffer2000]

Hey slick132, JonCris and aj84. Thanks for being so welcoming and for your great advice!! I've written a letter to RLP, which I'll post up on here to see how appropriate it is...I've already posted it though since if I left it any longer their '21 day deadline' would have passed...sounds like a termination or something lol ! I had to put the letter together quite quickly because i went on holiday after the incident in boots.

 

Do you know if it would be quite straightforward to get a caution overturned at all? I was put under quite a lot of duress to accept it and I wasn't allowed to make any phone calls at the station; they didn't even phone the people who I asked them to phone to inform of my situation (they said they would have done this and were obliged to do so). I was kept in a cell for 5 hours, and because of this I missed my train back home and so had to wait in Leeds station for a further 5 hours for the train to take me home...so I didn't get home until 6am the following day. The police came to search the house before I came back and took away my computer, printer, bank information, cash box...a lot of personal details which they are not willing to return in a hurry. They have even taken the charger to my phone and toothbrush! grrrrrrrrrr

 

I can't really afford to visit a solictor though, but I will make an appointment with Citizens Advice next week and see what they say.

 

Do you think the case amounts to Boots providing a misleading price indication, and so they might not be following the consumer protection act 1987 which prohibits misleading price indications?

 

Thanks again for all your help! I will appreciate all the advice

[butty_a]

It s even more simple than showing a price or not, it was taken to the till, the till said it was x amount and she paid that amount as shown on the reciept, if it said £3 a tub she would still have paid it.

 

I bought a load of running tops from tesco's like that, label stated £17 reduced to £10, the till said £3, hence why I bought more. The op accepted the price offered by boots doesn't matter what the stand says. The greatest problem will be getting any finger prints or DNA erased from the police files.

[peterlucas]

If there is no dishonesty, there is no theft. Here, there is clearly no dishonesty. The OP believed he had a right in law to deprive Boots of the goods, as he thought they were free gifts and had genuine reason to think so. The caution has been issued without grounds and the detention by Boots' goons would seem to be unlawful. For a citizen's arrest to be lawful, there needs to be reasonable belief of the commission of an offense. I can;t see anything reasonable about it in this situation. In the same situation, I would ignore their demand, let them come after you in the county court if they wish, file a last minute acknowledgment followed by a last minute defense stating that there was no theft and the detention was unlawful. You may well also have a claim for false imprisonment and possibly defamation. You may be able to engage a solicitor on a no win no fee basis. There is defiantly a potential case here and you need to speak to someone about it, damages for false imprisonment can be very high and of course if sets a deterrent against these sorts of corporate bully boy practices.

[JonCris]

The problem for the OP is that they have been badly advised to accept a caution & until that is rescinded in the courts there will be considerable difficulty in fighting the claim for costs

[peterlucas]

A complaint to the law society with regard to the bad advice would probably give credence in an attempt to have it rescinded.

[JonCris]

No it won't but a compliant to the solicitors firm might as it may prompt them to try & help

[JonCris]

& if that fails another visit to a solicitor who specializes in suing other solicitors for negligence might do the trick & for their details check out Private Eye Magazine

[flyingdoc]

IMHO the shop is a fault here.

 

If the customer scans all items at a self service checkout and the computer calculates the amount owed, then it is the shops mistake and not the customers.

 

When you go to the checkout - you are at this point entering into a contract with the shop - you present the goods (your statement of intent to buy) they total them up and offer them to you for a total price (the offer to sell) you accept the offer by paying the required sum and the contract is made.(Boots v British Pharmaceutical Society) also (Debenhams v Customs and Excise Commissioners)

 

also you could argue that the automatic checkout could be considered a vending machine and cite (Thornton v shoe lane parking)

 

If they are entrusting this process to a machine then it is upto them to ensure that this machine is upto the task.

 

I believe that the advice given about accepting the caution was although in good intent a bad one and I would perhaps contact the solicitors practice to discuss this with them.

 

While getting the caution overturned is a good idea I think that you should be able to fight the RLP without doing so.

 

Get good legal advice on this -

[slick132]

Hi Sheffer,

 

It would be nice to get an update on this case.

Edited April 20, 2009 by slick132
typo

[MariaGarcia]

Hello Everyone!

 

Sorry for this long message!

 

I just stumbled onto this forum when looking for some advice, and everyone seems really helpful so if you could offer me any help at all I would be really grateful.

 

About 2 weeks ago I was in a branch of Boots and using up some of my mum's coupons she had amassed for No 7 products and facial skincare (You receive coupons in Boots every time you spend £5 or £10 usually..and my mum shops in there so much!). Anyway I was putting these products in my basket when I saw a stand of bronzing kits which I thought would make ideal presents, so I placed four in my basket with the No 7 Products and facial skincare products I was buying with my vouchers. There was no price on the stand for the products.

 

I took my purchases to a self scanning checkout since the cashiers sometimes get quite frustrated if you give them a number of coupons, since only one coupon can be used per transaction and it takes up a fair amount of time. Anyway, after I had purchased these products I noticed that the bronzing kits had appeared on my receipt as a free item, so I assumed it was a free gift for purchasing other products in the store.

 

I then repeated the same transaction, using some of my mum's coupons towards some No 7 cosmetics and facial skincare products and buying some bronzing kits as well. All of the items were scanned at the checkout under the supervision of a boots employee.

 

After I left the store I was confronted by a security man who took me into a back room and said that I had shoplifted from Boots. I protested at this, saying I had scanned all my shopping through in the usual manner and paid the amount which the till had required. The store manager said the bronzing kits were a free item only when spending £15 on a different make-up range, and then said there were signs depicting this. However, I never noticed these signs, and the fact remains that there was no price on the shelf for these bronzing kits anyway. I was told I had acquired the products by deception and the kits were subsequently confiscated from me.

 

I was then arrested by the police and kept in a cell for 5 hours, after which a solicitor arrived who advised me that i could accept a police caution to end the matter. Since I wanted to get home as soon as possible I just accepted this, as I needed to make the dinner for my autistic brother and younger sister. The police gave me a caution and said I shouldn't hear anything else of the matter.

 

A few days later I received a letter from Retail Loss Prevention ltd (RLP) ordering me to pay £250 for security and administration costs in association with my 'detention'. I really do not feel I should have to pay this, since what happened was an honest mistake and I feel that is the fault of Boots who have failed to input the correct price for the product in question into the system.

 

Any advice you could give would be extremely appreciated. Should I write a reply to RLP ltd refusing to pay for the above reasons, or should I just ignore their letter?

 

 

 

Hi, I am more than happy to help and would suggest that you respond to RLP as if they do process a claim and you have not responded a judge will look at that unfavourably (I am a qualified solicitor and have sat with a number of judges and so I know this for a fact!). RLP use certain cases as a precedent for the cases for what they can recover although you should be aware that case law is simply a judicial interpretation for statute law etc and so the level of compensation is disputable. Further if no wrongful act is committed they cannot claim the damages.

[JonCris]

Sheffer I can only say your legal advice was cr*ap I assume he/she was the duty solicitor & if so it's clear .............THEY & not you wanted to get things over as from what you state here its clear there was no intention to steal nor do I think it actually happened..........what does appear to have happened is that Boots system has broken down or that you having not been sufficeintly informed have misunderstood it........either way you have accepted a caution which if you don't know stays with you for life & may affect any foreign travel................ IMHO if you want to right what I think is a wrong you need to have the caution repealed through the courts............... It's upto you but as a 1st step I would suggest you consult a GOOD lawyer for advice before doing anything more

[Zamzara]

Also if the police initiated the offer of the caution (rather than the solicitor suggesting it) then a complaint about that might be appropriate too as they must have realised the elements of the offence were not present.

[MARTIN3030]

There are reports of users within these forums sending pms with offers of help.

I would urge anyone who gets any pms and suspects their content-to report it to site team.

[JonCris]

Quite right Martin only don't throw out the baby with the bath water insist they ID themselves & provide their credentials before making a final decision otherwise if it's who I suspect you could be denying members of some very useful help

[bobbyh99]

The police came to search the house before I came back and took away my computer, printer, bank information, cash box...a lot of personal details which they are not willing to return in a hurry. They have even taken the charger to my phone and toothbrush! grrrrrrrrrr

 

I realise the OP hasn't been around for a while, but can the above be right for something as trivial as a caution??

[shanty]

I think thePolice have the right to search a property to look for evidence in cases where theft is alleged,assuming the OP has told the whole story.

The caution as an outcome would have been after this.

Edited April 29, 2009 by shanty

[samjf]

I have never heard of the police searching your house and confiscating your possessions, because of a mistake (by Boots) on a till receipt. This does not seem right. Surely if the mistake was pointed out to the customer and they were given the opportunity, to either pay for the goods, or return them, then there would have been no reason to call the police or contact RLP. It could have easily been sorted out in the shop. If this was to happen in cases like this where there was no actual theft commited but a genuine mistake/confusion, companies like RLP would lose alot of money. They seem to be claiming compensation fines for anything they can and rely on these sort of cases. They are the ones that should be charged for theft for asking such rediculous amounts in cases like this!!!

Edited April 29, 2009 by samjf
spelling

[shanty]

Having read the thread again,I can only say while what the Police did seems unusual,it would not be unusual for the Police to do this if they had other suspicions,or if The OP has been seen in the store before doing something else that was irregular or has previous convictions for similar.

I think there is more to this story than meets the eye.

So,if this is all the OP has done-I would be suing them..the Police too..

If it is possible the store has other evidence they may bring up in the future-leave it alone.

Edited April 29, 2009 by shanty

[Cornsnake]

CAB have received advice from Counnsel regarding RLP fixed sum demands. Over the last decade RLP have issued over 500,000 such demands for Boots and many other retailers - they have never once taken these to Court. They rely on people paying under the threat of Court action. Counsel for CAB have advised that many of the additional charges listed such as "staff management time" and surveilance and apprehension costs" would not stand the scrutiny of a defended County Court claim and so RLP do not take cases to court for fear of setting legal precidence.

Counsel for CAB have stated that they will undertake pro-bono work for any CAB client who is taken to Court by RLP.

If you have a demand from RLP do not pay it, if they take you to Court (highly unlikely) then seek assistance from CAB and ask them to check Advisernet 4.8.1.20